Newbie with flash - First purchase recommendations please

tonybassplayer

tonybassplayer

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Tony
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I have a Canon 80D and virtually no experience with flash and would like some recommendations as to what would be a good “starter” piece of equipment to buy.

I work at a children’s animal visitor centre and I am increasingly getting involved with taking pictures for our marketing manager.

On some poor weather days some of our indoor barns can get very dull so I thought a flash would be a good addition to my bag as some of the animals can move quickly.

If at all possible I would like to make a purchase of a single unit (budget of about £100 to £150 ish) but something that perhaps could be expanded to do off camera flash in the future (something I know even less about but I saw it once in action and was very impressed)

Many thanks for reading.

Tony
 
+1 For Godox.

I recently purchased the Nikon versions (TT685N and X1N) for £140 total. The addition of the trigger opened up so many options for off camera flash.
Great fun to play with, so much so I bought a second TT685N the week after.
 
Before I joined this site, i paid the money for a Canon 430EXII.

I like it, but most people say it doesn't offer anything that the cheaper Godox units don't.

If I had the chance to do it again, I'd take a punt on what Phil recommended above.
 
Yep, I’m in the same boat, no experience and never used a flash, after the advise here I went with a Godox v860 and x-pro trigger.
Both were £175 from Ebay (Nikon mind, if that makes a difference to price)

Very easy to use and set up, rechargeable and the trigger makes life really easy poisoning the flash when/where you want, I’m still a complete noob but I can make it flash and kind of get results, also builds into more if you so decide.
 
Garry Edwards said:
As above, but please take the time to learn how to use the flash off camera - it's simple enough and the quality improvement will be massive.
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As Garry says, a bit of basic knowledge and practise with flash can make dramatic improvements, but I'd just qualify that 'use the flash off-camera' statement a little. What's important is not so much where the flash unit itself is, but where the light is a) coming from, and b) the size of the light source.

The most obvious place to start is probably with bounce-flash (see Soeren's link above) where the gun is pointed at the ceiling or a wall, and that then becomes the (much larger) off-camera light source which softens the shadows. In that case, having the flash on-camera is often as good a place as any and certainly very convenient.

ps Get the Ving 860. It has good power (bouncing tends to eat light) and fast recycle that is invaluable for anything involving people.
 
I'd also add, if the 'barns' are actual barns then I'm not sure using a flash on-camera will necessarily give you enough power to bounce it off the walls and/or ceiling.

I'm still to get anywhere near being able to use a flash well in either large indoor spaces or outdoors.

I bought Syl Arena's guide to speedlights. I've even read some of it, but it seems if you want to get really good results, then the flash will have to move off-camera.
 
mike weeks said:
The day that you can bounce flash in the average barn i want to see it

Best solution is some form of off camera flash but that means a stand or assistant to hold so cost goes up

Mike
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Which is why I suggested off-camera flash. . .
Our own barn is 4000 sq ft, the roof in places is very high and it's largely translucent plastic panels.
Kell said:
I'd also add, if the 'barns' are actual barns then I'm not sure using a flash on-camera will necessarily give you enough power to bounce it off the walls and/or ceiling.

I'm still to get anywhere near being able to use a flash well in either large indoor spaces or outdoors.

I bought Syl Arena's guide to speedlights. I've even read some of it, but it seems if you want to get really good results, then the flash will have to move off-camera.
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The question is, where do you stop? Personally I can use very high powered portable flash but there's never either time or space for the type of shots that I need to take in this situation, so it's often about compromise, and a reasonably powerful flashgun, off-camera with a reflective umbrella and a sensible increase to the ISO, is usually both manageable and good enough.
 
Thank you very much for all the information and I think I will purchase the Godox unit this weekend.

Can I just check that if I just bought one of those units and then bought the trigger that has been mentioned then does the trigger sit on the top of the camera and "triggers" the flash from where it has been placed ?

PS Yes they are real farm barns but getting an assistant to hold the flash would be no problem
 
tonybassplayer said:
Can I just check that if I just bought one of those units and then bought the trigger that has been mentioned then does the trigger sit on the top of the camera and "triggers" the flash from where it has been placed ?
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Yes
 
Garry Edwards said:
Yes
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Many thanks.

My 60th birthday on Monday and if my cries have been heard it will be amazon voucher city for me and purchases made on Tuesday rather than opening the same old s**te that seems to happen to me these days.
 
Thread resurrection.

Just had another birthday and never got round to the flash purchase BUT £220 worth of Amazon vouchers now sat in my account and just about to make a purchase.

Is the Godox TT685c still a good option ? (Thinking two flashes and a controller) or is there a better option two years on ?

Many thanks
 
tonybassplayer said:
Is the Godox TT685c still a good option ? (Thinking two flashes and a controller) or is there a better option two years on ?
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I've had a pair of these for a couple of years now and they work well with the X-Pro. :)

A bonus is that I can use them in the studio alongside my main Godox lights for filling in small spots or places that I can't get a big light into as they all operate from the same controller.
 
I have 2 x Godox TT685's with the X -pro trigger, these do what they are designed to do and some :)

Les :)
 
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tonybassplayer said:
Thread resurrection.

Just had another birthday and never got round to the flash purchase BUT £220 worth of Amazon vouchers now sat in my account and just about to make a purchase.

Is the Godox TT685c still a good option ? (Thinking two flashes and a controller) or is there a better option two years on ?

Many thanks
Click to expand...

I would get the lithium-battery version for faster recycle times, important in fast-changing situations with children/animals. And either the X2T or XPro trigger, they're so much easier/nicer to use than the X1T.

Let us know how you get on. It sounds like an opportunity for some great pictures, and maybe revenue for the animal centre :cool:
 
HoppyUK said:
I would get the lithium-battery version for faster recycle times, important in fast-changing situations with children/animals. And either the X2T or XPro trigger, they're so much easier/nicer to use than the X1T.

Let us know how you get on. It sounds like an opportunity for some great pictures, and maybe revenue for the animal centre :cool:
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Actually I’ve moved on from that job and now co-own a business so that’s one of the reasons for the lighting purchases but I have just purchased a couple of Garry Edwards books so donated to his horse charity.
 
PS Yes, I will look at that regarding the battery type as I had a Fuji bridge camera that ate batteries and I could never keep up with charging them.
 
I use Eneloop Pro batteries in mine and they're plenty good enough. I can't see the point in shelling out all that extra for battery packs unless you intend to use them flat out and at high speed. :rolleyes:
 
Garry Edwards said:
You've now moved the goalposts.. A flashgun would have been fine for your previous needs, but not now. Please see https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/tutorials/which-type-of-flash.153/
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In what respect Garry ? Are you thinking that maybe one flash and a form of static light might be a better option as the main use now will be to take product Photography shots (lamps, vases etc)

PS My business partner is convinced we need to ramp up our basic system that he bought a few years ago(two very basic stands and soft boxes that look to have very bright lights in them - going to fully investigate their suitability tomorrow) and happy to spend about £350.
 
tonybassplayer said:
In what respect Garry ? Are you thinking that maybe one flash and a form of static light might be a better option as the main use now will be to take product Photography shots (lamps, vases etc)

PS My business partner is convinced we need to ramp up our basic system that he bought a few years ago(two very basic stands and soft boxes that look to have very bright lights in them - going to fully investigate their suitability tomorrow) and happy to spend about £350.
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Lamps and vases - I've shot a few thousand of those, but they do vary . . . Feel free to send me a couple of existing pics, by email if you don't want to post them here, and I'll then have a better idea. But, if my assumptions are correct then your basic lighting setup will be a strip softbox each side and a little bit of frontal fill, which will need a studio flash and a strip softbox for each side, and any flash for the fill. A continuous light won't cut it at any level and flashguns don't do a good job at lighting large softboxes evenly. And see what it says in my Product Photography book, look at the sections on lighting wine bottles.
 
These are a few shots I created at home (NOT using the above lights) just using lights we have in the lounge combined with natural light.

As you can see I am coming from a very low base lol

One of the main looks we want to convey is "how it will look in your home" etc rather than a clinical "this is exactly what it looks like" (hope that explains it ok)

Untitled by Tony Keogh, on Flickr

Untitled by Tony Keogh, on Flickr

Untitled by Tony Keogh, on Flickr
 
For what they are, they're not at all bad. They'll be worth keeping for when you've made your fortune and want to make a video explaining how you achieved your success:)
But you need flash for product photography, no continuous lights can ever hack it and these are especially poor because
1. There is no adjustment for power
2. They can't be modified in any way, so you're stuck with the softboxes.

And, sometimes you'll want to photograph your lamps with them switched on, which involves a long exposure using flash - the longer the exposure, the greater the apparent light output from the table lamp of course, and this can't be done with any form of continuous lighting.

The stands are OK. Take a look at the SmartFlash flash heads, which for some reason are being sold at a silly low price at the moment. https://www.lencarta.com/lencarta-smartflash-4

Have you read both books yet?
 
tonybassplayer said:
These are a few shots I created at home (NOT using the above lights) just using lights we have in the lounge combined with natural light.

As you can see I am coming from a very low base lol

One of the main looks we want to convey is "how it will look in your home" etc rather than a clinical "this is exactly what it looks like" (hope that explains it ok)

Untitled by Tony Keogh, on Flickr

Untitled by Tony Keogh, on Flickr

Untitled by Tony Keogh, on Flickr
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Not bad at all. My reply crossed with your last post, the monkey one is exactly what I meant by combining flash with the light emitted by the lamp.
Photographing products in a home setting is very good idea, just be careful to keep the settings fairly bland - because if your customers don't like the setting then they won't like your products. And of course, if you're selling online then Amazon is dominant by about 1000 miles, and you'll need white background shots for them.

Having lighting will of course allow you to be far more creative, and will also allow you to create the right shadows and the right reflections in the right places.
 
Many thanks for responding Garry.

Still on with the books. Plenty to read and both very interesting.

The SmartFlash Heads look very good and great value too.
 
Made a purchase from your old company today Garry.

The Smart Flash 4 as recommended (read so so much about strobes v speedlights over the last few days)
A modestly priced Lencarta branded soft box 85 cm square
A Godox Xpro Trigger (I thought I may as well buy something that appears to be more "useable" for the extra few quid)

Think I will be going with the Godox TT685C to complement this initial set up as I want to use this for outdoor use as well for my personal photography life
Going to purchase a couple of reflectors too

I'm still reading the books (and watched quite a few of the videos on youtube too)

One day I may actually take a picture lol
 
Just had a couple of hours free this afternoon and managed to convince my wife the kitchen would be a good place to have a first practice.

All these are from one shot - Red As taken, De-Saturated and a tweak in Photo Shop.

Had the Smart Flash 4 with the 85 cm square soft box and the Xpro Trigger on my canon 80D

My wife has kindly donated the back drop which is a canvas her friend gave her many years ago and I am going to utilise after a re-paint.

Nor received my other products yet and could have definitely have done with either another light and/or a couple of reflectors but happy to be up and running and getting things sorted.

Comments and critique welcome.

Just starting to do some product photography for our shop and testing things out a little. by Tony Keogh, on Flickr

Just starting to do some product photography for our shop and testing things out a little. by Tony Keogh, on Flickr

Just starting to do some product photography for our shop and testing things out a little. by Tony Keogh, on Flickr
 
Excellent choice of background, and looking very workmanlike.
billgatese30 said:
I'm no expert by a long way, but that's looking quite good to me. Evenly lit and no harsh shadows. Great job I'd say.
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Lighting is in fact about creating the right shadows in the right places, and product photography is about emphasising the special qualities of the product.
I haven't seen the product and I don't know what you set out to achieve here, but my guess is that this particular product has an uneven or textured surface, and the very flat lighting used here doesn't do it justice. I think that I'd be tempted to try rim lighting, to enhance the texture. This would involve one softbox each side, not very close, and a little behind the subject. Maybe with a fill flash on the lens axis, or a reflector, but the results will be more dramatic without the fill, so it's a matter of taste.
 
Many thanks for the feedback.

Got a speedlight, another soft box, large reflector, and small reflector coming this week so I will try that out and yes, it’s quite a rough textured look type of product.

PS The last five sales today all had one of my shots as the main picture - very pleased with that (although it could just be co-incidence)
 
tonybassplayer said:
Many thanks for the feedback.

Got a speedlight, another soft box, large reflector, and small reflector coming this week so I will try that out and yes, it’s quite a rough textured look type of product.

PS The last five sales today all had one of my shots as the main picture - very pleased with that (although it could just be co-incidence)
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In my experience, coincidences very rarely happen. Better product photos always create better sales, and exceptional ones usually create exceptional sales. You're far from creating exceptional shots at the moment, but it will come with practice. I've had a quick look at a few of your photos, you clearly have ability in non-studio, so you'll get there.
 
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