Night Club Photography: What to get for an amateur

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DJMark

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Hey guys, first of all, really nice to be on this forum, hopefully i'll start doing photography properly and become an active member.

Now, im an amateur, ive never actually owned a SLR - most amazing camera i've had has been a simple Sony digital 12.1 MP camera.

Well, im trying to improve on my photography and take some nice photos when out with friends in clubs - but my current camera doesnt seem to be doing amazingly.

Id like some suggestions of either a nicer digital camera, or possibly a small digital SLR (not one of the hauuuge ones please)

Budget is up to 300£ i guess.

Thanks!
 
Hmmmm are you looking for a camera that you can take to clubs with you whilst drinking and having fun etc?
 
I'll be honest, you will struggle. £300 might just about get you started but it won't be long before you want or need to spend more.

As said, a second hand 450 with kit lens or similar for that budget will do you. The first thing you will want to add to that somewhere down the line will be an external flash unit, ie a 430ex of 580ex.

Then, possibly a wide lens, i find it invaluable. And also high iso range, which will mean a more expensive body.

EDIT: Sorry, just re-read your post. You want something to take better pictures of you and your mates, in which case yes, a 450d alone will be a big improvement over your P&S. I thought you meant actually getting into nightclub photography.

You may struggle to get into clubs with an slr though, if your local clubs are anything like they are round here.
 
noneforit said:
Hmmmm are you looking for a camera that you can take to clubs with you whilst drinking and having fun etc?
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Yeah, but there is always somewhere to put it (my friend sometimes brings his ridiculously huge 1000£ camera with extra flash and whatever and its safe etc)

im just looking for one i can bring on our nights out.

So pretty much im looking for a camera + necessary kit to pretty much immortalize our nights out so they look good at home + facebook --- not triyng to be professional or sell photos.
 
Okay, let's assume ive raised my budget to 500£

What should i get for purely recreational photography in clubs of me and my friends.
 
noneforit said:
Hmmmm are you looking for a camera that you can take to clubs with you whilst drinking and having fun etc?
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I have done this multiple times and never broken mine...

And I would say looking at something like a d3000/d60 and external flash (wouldn't try it without). And my tried and tested method is to set it to manual, 1/4sec exposure and bounce the flash off the ceiling, a wide open aperture is a must.

And you get funky results like this:

n36701700_31692337_6024.jpg
 
DJMark said:
Okay, so for about 500£ could i get a camera + the necessary extrenal flash?
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Look at the Nikon D5000, at its price point, it has outstanding low noise/high ISO . . . maybe even unequaled at the price???:naughty: But I think you are talking £650 inc., a proper flash?

Example; A Nikon 35mm f1.8 GAF-S DX at around £160 would make the perfect match for low light work, to a D5000 body @ £410, ad around £100 for a dedicated Nissin flash.

The above are approx prices, based on Warehouse Express, might do better second hand or off fleBay, but thats a gamble?

Dont forget, ancillaries like SD card, AA batteries for the flash, etc.

CJS
 
I don't like flash pics generally - prefer wide aperture/high iso. I think you might find it a bit of a pain and feel self conscious with an SLR personally.

One of those new Sony NEX cameras or a M4/3 camera would probably be a good bet imo. ;)
 
DJMark said:
Okay, so for about 500£ could i get a camera + the necessary extrenal flash?
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Is secondhand an option?

A lot of kit comes up in the for sale section on here, usually it's been well looked after too, so in my mind it's safer than ebay and similar.

If so, £500 would be more than enough I'd imagine. Camera bodies are continually coming out, so if you buy one a few years old you can get an awesome camera for a fraction of what it would have cost new.

All of the main manufacturers make brilliant cameras, I'm a Canon person so I can only really offer advice, but something like a 400D + kit lens (~£250 if you shop around), then a flash for around £100 to £150 depending on what you're after, and then you may want to get a lens more suited to low light environments like the 'nifty fifty' (Canon 50mm f/1.8) for around £65. Nikon has similar models, but I have no idea what their names are!

Chris
 
Personally id say avoid kit lenses, id be looking for 50mm f1.8 (it'll let lots of light in and is cheap as chips) combined with a external flash and diffuser.

Id also contradict what most are saying and say that high ISO isnt important.

This was shot at ISO 250, 1/20th, 50mm f1.8 and using a 580EX (a 430EX would do) with Gary Fong diffuser.

3428805759_0021ded8bc_o.jpg
 
Panasonic G1 about £340 after cashback. very neat and compact especially if you grab the 20mm f1.7 at some time in the future.
 
Matt989 said:
Personally id say avoid kit lenses, id be looking for 50mm f1.8 (it'll let lots of light in and is cheap as chips) combined with a external flash and diffuser.

Id also contradict what most are saying and say that high ISO isnt important.

This was shot at ISO 250, 1/20th, 50mm f1.8 and using a 580EX (a 430EX would do) with Gary Fong diffuser.
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Agreed, ISO isn't really a factor when I have done it, external flash is a bit more important. Then again, I have only been in smaller club environments...
 
For pictures in a club I will avoid a flash... A Nikon D5000 with a 35mm f1.8 could do the job very well for you. I use this combo many times in low light when I need a less intrusive solution than my D700 with big glass and works very nice. Later on you can add a zoom like Tamron 17-50mm f2.8 VC and you have a very powerful system.
 
mishu said:
For pictures in a club I will avoid a flash... A Nikon D5000 with a 35mm f1.8 could do the job very well for you. I use this combo many times in low light when I need a less intrusive solution than my D700 with big glass and works very nice. Later on you can add a zoom like Tamron 17-50mm f2.8 VC and you have a very powerful system.
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Not sure this will be fast enough. I struggle at ISO1600 and the 35mm f1.8 lens in poor lighting.

A lot of people simply diffuse their flash with a Stofen and try to bounce as well. Use the camera in manual mode and balance the ambient light to the i/e-TTL flash exposure by adjusting the shutter speed.
 
westley byford said:
look for a second hand canon 450d,
i got one and now use it as a second camera, i think there great!! :D
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Yeah, I've got a 450D. ISO performance even at top whack - 1600 - isn't half bad, stick a 50mm f/1.4 or 1.8 on it (if really tight on cash) and you have one hell of a low light performer.
 
im on the look out for a 'nifty fifty'. whats the difference between them? apart from the obvious 1.4 1.8??
 
westley byford said:
im on the look out for a 'nifty fifty'. whats the difference between them? apart from the obvious 1.4 1.8??
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About £200, silent focussing, and better build quality! If you just want a cheap lens to get you into low-light stuff, the f/1.8 is fine. If you're going to be using it a lot, you'll probably end up upgrading to the f/1.4 further down the line, but you might as well start with the 1.8 and see how it goes!

Chris
 
So your suggestion is for me to get a Canon 450D and a 1.8 external flash?

Im seeing that thats the most popular suggestion for now, but im on the fence between the Nikkon and the 450D
 
chris321 said:
About £200, silent focussing, and better build quality! If you just want a cheap lens to get you into low-light stuff, the f/1.8 is fine. If you're going to be using it a lot, you'll probably end up upgrading to the f/1.4 further down the line, but you might as well start with the 1.8 and see how it goes!

Chris
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The build quality is indeed better but it's certainly not stellar - and don't even get me started on that MF ring. While full time focussing is available (A must for me) it is horribly [horribly] damped and when changing focus direction you can feel a little looseness while it locks into the gears again. Horrible thing. That said you won't get anything better for the money (Sigma costs more and is gigantic) so it's a case of like it or lump it. I rarely need to manual focus with this lens anyway but if one does I'd seriously consider something else. 50mm f/1.2 L according to reviews is only the better lens wide open, above f/2.8 or so it is completely owned by both of Canon's cheaper 50s - or so the reviews say.

I'm beginning to think what daugirdas says about the Canon 50s is right.
 
bass_junkie83 said:
You may struggle to get into clubs with an slr though, if your local clubs are anything like they are round here.
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Hehe, i'm a promoter at a few London clubs so when im not 'working' im there with my mates and the club owners know me so they dont care.

So if its "JUST FOR ME AND MY MATES - NOT PROFESSIONAL PHOTOGRAPHY"

would a 2nd hand 450D be best then.

I think ive decided to get a 2nd hand, or possibly new 450d - but i need some help picking out the necessary accesories also.

Specifically (with links please :D) which flash + lens should i get.
 
Here is some photography I've done with a 450D and just the cheapo 50mm f/1.8 in pretty poor light:

IMG_8364_sb.jpg


IMG_8430_sb.jpg


Handholding in the dimly lit power station was not a problem for these photos, oftentimes I could use 400 or 800 ISO.

You just have to watch your DOF though - at such massive apertures you only have a very small plane of focus which is easy to screw up if your subjects are not still.
 
I got a 400D in the classified forums ;) leaves you with more money for flashes\lenses etc etc
 
I can't believe that people are recommending or thinking of using a DSLR and external flash in a night club. That'd be my idea of hell. I'd rather set fire to all of my camera gear and stick pins in my eyes.

If forced at gunpoint I'd use a small body DSLR and a fast prime, select a wide aperture, shoot RAW, crank up the ISO and if possible ETTR and deal with the consequences in post capture processing.

Or do all that with an EVIL, maybe a G1 with a fast prime could be in budget?
 
woof woof said:
I can't believe that people are recommending or thinking of using a DSLR and external flash in a night club. That'd be my idea of hell. I'd rather set fire to all of my camera gear and stick pins in my eyes.
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Why?

The only problem I had was 50mm wasnt wide enough. Dont see why yoid want to use high ISO and deal with it in PP when you can get cracking shots with no noise using a flash?!
 
Why? Lots of reasons...

firstly if I'm out with friends I want to have fun and not be the annoying geek with the massive camera,

secondly flash stands a chance of destroying the natural scene (I personally believe that few people are as adept at flash as they think they are,)

thirdly because having some bloke fire off a flash can be extremely annoying to others at the venue,

fourthly if you're half way competent you should be able to get a decent picture at high ISO without resorting to a scene destroying flash.

Most modern cameras produce high ISO pictures that will make perfectly good, stunning even, internet / screen images or prints. It's often only when viewed at unrealistic sizes that the evils of higher ISO become truly damaging.

Having shot at venues for "the act" I know how people can react even when you try to be invisible and frankly that just isn't a fun night for me. If others want to shoot with a huge camera and with a speedlight going off that's just fine. I realise that I'm probably in the minority.

BTW, I showed some natural light 20D ISO 3200 images, many ETTR and corrected, to a 5DII user last night and got a favourable response, so if a 20D is up to the task, noise just wasn't an issue, newer stuff should be too.
 
If I was out with friends and want to have fun, I wouldn't be taking my dslr, I would take my P&C tz
 
Brooksy said:
If I was out with friends and want to have fun, I wouldn't be taking my dslr, I would take my P&C tz
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Have to agree with this... I love my camera but if I was down the boozer I'd not trust myself with my DSLR - I like to drink and get drunk VERY easily - I'd end up breaking something!
 
The OP has said their P&S isnt working for them hense the suggestions for a dslr, hes already made clear he doesnt mind the idea of taking a dslr into a club, pribably as he's a DJ (correct me if im wrong) so isnt your average punter!

I dont think my example shows flash "destroying the natural scene"

Most people in the club will be half/fully cut and couldnt care less about flash, especially since its an enviroment where flashing lights are the norm.

Competance has little to do with it, id rather have a noise free image than one that is mearly acceptable.

And I would be very interested to see your shots at ISO 1600.

The clubs ive shot in people are generally ****ed enough not to care about the flash.
 
Easy tiger. I'm expressing a personal opinion and that is that flash photography in a venue like a club just isn't for me, others can of course do as they wish with my full blessing. I merely posted some views which those reading are free to consider or discount.

"And I would be very interested to see your shots at ISO 1600."

I actually mentioned ISO 3200 shots and..

"Most modern cameras produce high ISO pictures that will make perfectly good, stunning even, internet / screen images or prints. It's often only when viewed at unrealistic sizes that the evils of higher ISO become truly damaging."

No mention of "merely acceptable" there.

Anyway, I only have a free photobucket account so I can't link to full res images however I have posted higher ISO images here, but what I shoot is really irrelevant. It's up to each of us to decide what technique is best to use and what is acceptable or not. I myself prefer to enjoy myself camera free when out with friends and to pursue my hobby outside of night clubs. When I do shoot in lower light the chances are that I'll shoot at higher ISO's, if possible ETTR. It's just my choice.
 
You mentioned "small dslr" - its my understanding that the 450d is quite small compared to others out there?
 
I fully agree with woof woof. I'm shooting events in available light, sometimes in very bad light and I almost never use a flash. My main concern is to have a body with good behaviour on High ISO and a bag with fast primes. My recommendation for the OP is that instead to buy a cheap lens and a flash to skip the flash and to go for a fast f1.4 prime. Also the sensor of D5000 is wiping down with the sensor of many other expensive bodies in regards of low light performance, almost equal with 1D Mark IV... (see dxomark for that)
 
Why so agressive?

The problem I see, is that available light photography is more expensive, as you require a recent high-ISO body and a fast prime.

And regarding flash obstrusiveness, I can only say that for example a SB-400 is very small and light and the flash can be dialled down quite a bit when using ISO400 and an open aperature. If the flash is balanced with the ambient, diffused and white balance isn't way off, I think the images aren't killing the mood. But that will of course depend on the night club.
 
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