Nikon FX to DX switch???

[Box Brownie]

Purely out of curiosity to add to my learning

I am not and have never been a Nikon owner/user (provided you don't count IIRC a Nikon F I borrowed waaaaaay back (in the late 60's to early 70's ???) for a visit to Brands Hatch.,.. I think loaded with either FP4 or FP5?)

I read on another forum re: use DX mode on a Z9 to 'get closer' and sounds like a digital crop i.e. a Digital Tele Converter (DTC)

Is that a correct understanding and if so just what is the DTC zoom magnification?

 

[Stephen L]

Purely out of curiosity to add to my learning

I am not and have never been a Nikon owner/user (provided you don't count IIRC a Nikon F I borrowed waaaaaay back (in the late 60's to early 70's ???) for a visit to Brands Hatch.,.. I think loaded with either FP4 or FP5?)

I read on another forum re: use DX mode on a Z9 to 'get closer' and sounds like a digital crop i.e. a Digital Tele Converter (DTC)

Is that a correct understanding and if so just what is the DTC zoom magnification?

Yes, it is basically a crop. The only difference is that you can visualise it in the viewfinder. The effective magnification is 1.5.

 

[swanseamale47]

I suppose you could call it a crop. As I understand it the camera "masks" off the outer portion of the sensor (just uses the smaller sensor area). Not much different to using any camera and setting square format or 16/9. Less pixles but more reach.

 

[Box Brownie]

Yes, it is basically a crop. The only difference is that you can visualise it in the viewfinder. The effective magnification is 1.5.

I suppose you could call it a crop. As I understand it the camera "masks" off the outer portion of the sensor (just uses the smaller sensor area). Not much different to using any camera and setting square format or 16/9. Less pixles but more reach.

Thanks both for the insights.

Does the DX setting on those cameras, that can be switched to the cropped size, record a (true?) raw file or is it jpeg?

FWIW and the reason it caught my attention was that my OM camera there is a DTC function of a x2 crop. However, if shooting raw & jpeg it records the full original raw and the x2 crop is recorded as the jpeg. If jpeg only is set it is only the cropped view.

 

[snerkler]

Purely out of curiosity to add to my learning

I am not and have never been a Nikon owner/user (provided you don't count IIRC a Nikon F I borrowed waaaaaay back (in the late 60's to early 70's ???) for a visit to Brands Hatch.,.. I think loaded with either FP4 or FP5?)

I read on another forum re: use DX mode on a Z9 to 'get closer' and sounds like a digital crop i.e. a Digital Tele Converter (DTC)

Is that a correct understanding and if so just what is the DTC zoom magnification?

Most cameras have a 'crop' mode, Nikon call it DX mode, Sony call it APS-C and I'm not sure what Canon call it. You can shoot this in raw and JPEG.

Nikon and Sony have a 1.5x crop, Canon 1.6x crop. When using crop mode it gets you 'closer' to the subject, like it would using a crop camera, however when you use a FF camera in crop mode you lose resolution as you are only using the cropped portion of the sensor. With a 1.5 x crop your resolution will be 2.25x smaller (1.5 x 1.5 = 2.25) so a 24mp camera becomes 10.7mp, a 50mp camera becomes 22.2mp and so on.

Some cameras have another feature like Sony's clear image zoom which gives a 1.5x or 2x crop FOV but uses pixel mapping to add pixels and maintain the resolution, similar to Topaz Gigapixel. These are JPEG only.

 

[Ed Sutton]

Thanks both for the insights.

Does the DX setting on those cameras, that can be switched to the cropped size, record a (true?) raw file or is it jpeg?

FWIW and the reason it caught my attention was that my OM camera there is a DTC function of a x2 crop. However, if shooting raw & jpeg it records the full original raw and the x2 crop is recorded as the jpeg. If jpeg only is set it is only the cropped view.

Nikons crop the raw file as well as the jpeg.

 

[Nod]

PERSONALLY, I'd shoot in Fx and do any cropping myself.

 

[Box Brownie]

PERSONALLY, I'd shoot in Fx and do any cropping myself.

That has always been my approach and perception.

However, I watched a video by Andy Rouse where he advocated using "raw & large super fine (LSF) jpeg" with the OM DTC setting. He, rightly, pointed out that in the right subject situation (static & intimate portraits) if you have nailed the settings then jpeg is absolutely fine for all usages including publication. Adding that a large number of his published images were such jpegs.

NB with the benefit as & if needed of having the full sensory raw available to post process as required.

 

[Box Brownie]

Most cameras have a 'crop' mode, Nikon call it DX mode, Sony call it APS-C and I'm not sure what Canon call it. You can shoot this in raw and JPEG.

Nikon and Sony have a 1.5x crop, Canon 1.6x crop. When using crop mode it gets you 'closer' to the subject, like it would using a crop camera, however when you use a FF camera in crop mode you lose resolution as you are only using the cropped portion of the sensor. With a 1.5 x crop your resolution will be 2.25x smaller (1.5 x 1.5 = 2.25) so a 24mp camera becomes 10.7mp, a 50mp camera becomes 22.2mp and so on.

Some cameras have another feature like Sony's clear image zoom which gives a 1.5x or 2x crop FOV but uses pixel mapping to add pixels and maintain the resolution, similar to Topaz Gigapixel. These are JPEG only.

Thanks for the added insights

PS in regard to Canon what little I recall ended with the 5D3 dSLR I used to use up until 2016 when I switched to Olympus

 

[Box Brownie]

Nikons crop the raw file as well as the jpeg.

Is that what they call sRAW ?

 

[Ed Sutton]

Is that what they call sRAW ?

No, it's just a cropped raw file.

 

[Peter123]

For things like bird photography some Nikon owners argue that for small subjects, (say) in a tree where branches intrude, switching to dx mode enables quicker/better AF.
DX crop can be quickly enabled/disabled if you set a programmable button (on either lens or camera) to do this.

 

[snerkler]

He, rightly, pointed out that in the right subject situation (static & intimate portraits) if you have nailed the settings then jpeg is absolutely fine for all usages including publication. Adding that a large number of his published images were such jpegs.

That's fine if you're happy with SOOC jpegs. I personally don't like Sony colour profiles so always shoot raw so that I can use color fidelity profiles.

Is that what they call sRAW ?

As Ed says, DX mode is just a cropped image no different to cropping in post. sRAW and mRAW are the full frame FOV but just smaller resolution to make the file sizes smaller.

For things like bird photography some Nikon owners argue that for small subjects, (say) in a tree where branches intrude, switching to dx mode enables quicker/better AF.
DX crop can be quickly enabled/disabled if you set a programmable button (on either lens or camera) to do this.

That's interesting, why would it make AF better? If doing things like bird photography where I know I'm going to be cropping anyway I'll shoot in DX/APS-C mode to save file size and allow more images/card.

 

[Peter123]

That's interesting, why would it make AF better? If doing things like bird photography where I know I'm going to be cropping anyway I'll shoot in DX/APS-C mode to save file size and allow more images/card.

Well many shoot in FX mode.
Using a z8 (or9) if the bird in tree is amongst branches then switching to DX mode means a smaller area for the bird AI to search.
Once it locks on then switch back to FX mode.
Again, if the subject is at a distance then a switch to DX helps AF to lock on here as well..
Cards are pretty huge these days.

 

[snerkler]

Well many shoot in FX mode.
Using a z8 (or9) if the bird in tree is amongst branches then switching to DX mode means a smaller area for the bird AI to search.
Once it locks on then switch back to FX mode.
Again, if the subject is at a distance then a switch to DX helps AF to lock on here as well..
Cards are pretty huge these days.

Yep cards have a lot of storage but no point having the files large just for the sake of it if your subject is small in the frame. YMMV.

I guess it depends how good your bird af is but most are like magic these days and I would hazard a guess much faster than switching back and forth from fx to dx and back, but we all have our methods

 

[Nod]

That has always been my approach and perception.

However, I watched a video by Andy Rouse where he advocated using "raw & large super fine (LSF) jpeg" with the OM DTC setting. He, rightly, pointed out that in the right subject situation (static & intimate portraits) if you have nailed the settings then jpeg is absolutely fine for all usages including publication. Adding that a large number of his published images were such jpegs.

NB with the benefit as & if needed of having the full sensory raw available to post process as required.

FWIW, I only save as JPEG - as large and as little compression as possible. As you (or Andy Rouse!) said, if you nail the settings, the results are plenty good enough for most normal uses! I had a try with processing raw files and was never as happy with the results as I was with the cameras' (a progression of Nikon DSLRs and now Fujis) ideas.

 

[Peter123]

Yep cards have a lot of storage but no point having the files large just for the sake of it if your subject is small in the frame. YMMV.

I guess it depends how good your bird af is but most are like magic these days and I would hazard a guess much faster than switching back and forth from fx to dx and back, but we all have our methods

It's a button press to switch either way.

 

[snerkler]

It's a button press to switch either way.

Yeah I know, but AF's still probably faster than pressing a button twice. Also, if you're a BBF shooter like me that means taking your finger off the shutter button to press the FX/DX button leading to the possibility of a missed shot.

I get some people may use it, but I personally see it as a waste of time givien the capabilities of modern day AF systems. The only time I can see if being of benefit is if the AF is struggling to find the subject, but even then it wouldn't be of use to me as I use single point AF, or for BIF group AF. YMMV

 

[Peter123]

My finger on my right hand never leaves the AF button.
I'm shooting with the Z8 with a 600mm PF.
The L-Fn2 programmable button on the lens is set to do the switch. Very easy to do with my left hand as I handhold.
There's a handy DX mode alert you can set to show in the VF and back screen.
Obviously I only use it if I feel it will help.

Different strokes for different folks.

 

[snerkler]

My finger on my right hand never leaves the AF button.
I'm shooting with the Z8 with a 600mm PF.
The L-Fn2 programmable button on the lens is set to do the switch. Very easy to do with my left hand as I handhold.
There's a handy DX mode alert you can set to show in the VF and back screen.
Obviously I only use it if I feel it will help.

Different strokes for different folks.

Ahh ok, the lens button makes more sense

 

[Erty]

On a DSLR, where the focus points are in the middle, using DX means the points are more spread out, which can help a bit for things at the top of the picture. If you use a lower focal length on DX then there might be a bit of an advantage if the shorter focal length can use a lower aperture.

On a mirrorless there might be an improvement in processing if half the focus and metering points are not used when the sensor zooms into a DX area. That would rely on Nikon being smart on how they set up the camera

 

[snerkler]

On a DSLR, where the focus points are in the middle, using DX means the points are more spread out, which can help a bit for things at the top of the picture. If you use a lower focal length on DX then there might be a bit of an advantage if the shorter focal length can use a lower aperture.

On a mirrorless there might be an improvement in processing if half the focus and metering points are not used when the sensor zooms into a DX area. That would rely on Nikon being smart on how they set up the camera

In theory you could imagine AF might be faster in crop mode due to less calculations, but I’ve never seen anything in literature to suggest this is the case. Also, AF speeds are so fast now that if there is a difference I doubt we’d be able to detect it.

 

[Erty]

In theory you could imagine AF might be faster in crop mode due to less calculations, but I’ve never seen anything in literature to suggest this is the case. Also, AF speeds are so fast now that if there is a difference I doubt we’d be able to detect it.

You would see it in the number of missed shot. If performance was better in DX, you would have a higher hit rate.

 

[snerkler]

You would see it in the number of missed shot. If performance was better in DX, you would have a higher hit rate.

I was talking of speed rather than hit rate, but I'm not sure you'd see a higher hit rate depending on how you have your camera set. I have mine set to release on focus so in theory hit rate should be the same. Of course, this is just all assumptions on my behalf