Nikon shutters China plant, lays off 2,285 employees, Blames Rise of Smartphones

We used to have Canon as a client and all our briefs said their biggest competition was not Nikon, Sony, Pentax etc, but Apple and Android phones.
Not for DSLR's though surely. Maybe for their point and shoot products.
 
No. The whole market has shifted and smartphones are taking away potential customers.

Maybe it’s because people don’t get point and shoot cameras and naturally migrate upwards any more. The people that would always buy a DSLR will continue to buy them, but that market is rapidly shrinking.

I have to say I’m looking at the faff involved with multiple lenses and separate flashes etc and wondering whether something like a Light L16 might not suit me better in the future.
 
Also, I couldn't work out if the thread title was misspelled or it meant they're closing their 'shutters' factory, which is in China.

That might be a two-pronged reason in so much as they're producing fewer cameras with shutters as well as the fall in sales overall.
 
The press says
"
In recent years, however, due to the rise
of
smartphones, the compact digital camera market has been shrinking
rapidly,
"

My wife will not use anything other than a phone for a photography - which is a shame as we have a young son and I think she could get better photos with a compact camera*, but it is too much hassle.

(I think the default focal length and shutter speed is not ideal for fast moving things).
 
Almost everyone wants pictures.
very few identify as "Photographers"
The enthusiast market will continue to shrink.
A majority of people are no longer prepared to put up with the physical encumbrancer of photographic gear in to their social life.
They only see their images on digital devices.
Phone camera images are more than good enough for their social life.

The mass market has moved away from the tyranny of stand alone cameras.

Joe public see us "Photographers" as pretty weird.
we have move into the same bracket as stamp collectors and Train spotters.
 
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Almost everyone wants pictures.
very few identify as "Photographers"
The enthusiast market will continue to shrink.
A majority of people are no longer prepared to put up with the physical encumbrancer of photographic gear in to their social life.
They only see their images on digital devices.
Phone camera images are more than good enough for their social life.

The mass market has moved away from the tyranny of stand alone cameras.

Joe public see us "Photographers" as pretty weird.
we have move into the same bracket as stamp collectors and Train spotters.
True if you only ever look at photos on a phone then you don't need that much quality.
 
I take great pictures on my iPhone 6, but you cannot achieve long exposure shots for night photography on a phone (as far as I know). DSLR is superior in that sense. Also, with depth of feel, playing around with aperture, and then shutter speed for fast moving objects.

A phone camera has its limitations.
 
No. The whole market has shifted and smartphones are taking away potential customers.

Maybe it’s because people don’t get point and shoot cameras and naturally migrate upwards any more. The people that would always buy a DSLR will continue to buy them, but that market is rapidly shrinking.

I have to say I’m looking at the faff involved with multiple lenses and separate flashes etc and wondering whether something like a Light L16 might not suit me better in the future.
I'm amused by the idea that the DSLR market is 'shrinking'

In the 80's there was a popularity spurt in 'photography' and if I went out for a day with the camera, I might see a dozen other 'photographers'with proper cameras.
Towards the late 90's it became exceedingly rare to see other SLR users.
Then by the end of the noughties, they were even more popular than the 80's, I've just been out to rally GB where 15 years ago I could be the only guy there with a white lens, if I'd swung my camera around at the weekend, I'd have knocked out a dozen white lens owners. Some of whom would happily admit they didn't really understand 'photography' or how to use their gear. The rally used to be viewed by spectators, now most people are viewing it through a lens of some description.
 
I'm amused by the idea that the DSLR market is 'shrinking'

In the 80's there was a popularity spurt in 'photography' and if I went out for a day with the camera, I might see a dozen other 'photographers'with proper cameras.
Towards the late 90's it became exceedingly rare to see other SLR users.
Then by the end of the noughties, they were even more popular than the 80's, I've just been out to rally GB where 15 years ago I could be the only guy there with a white lens, if I'd swung my camera around at the weekend, I'd have knocked out a dozen white lens owners. Some of whom would happily admit they didn't really understand 'photography' or how to use their gear. The rally used to be viewed by spectators, now most people are viewing it through a lens of some description.


Both of you might be quite correct.
Sales of new DSLR's might well be shrinking. However the total ownership of DSL's might be at their peak.

The cost/ improvement benefit of up grading is getting harder and harder to justify.
And certainly fewer people are upgrading from compacts. And some who might have done, are drawn to Mirrorless cameras.
Camera sales statistics indicate that a major realignment is in progress, with Phone cameras being the main beneficiary.
 
Both of you might be quite correct.
Sales of new DSLR's might well be shrinking. However the total ownership of DSL's might be at their peak.

The cost/ improvement benefit of up grading is getting harder and harder to justify.
And certainly fewer people are upgrading from compacts. And some who might have done, are drawn to Mirrorless cameras.
Camera sales statistics indicate that a major realignment is in progress, with Phone cameras being the main beneficiary.
A lot of macro photographers are going to mirrorless because of the in camera focus stacking.
 
Both of you might be quite correct.
Sales of new DSLR's might well be shrinking. However the total ownership of DSL's might be at their peak.

The cost/ improvement benefit of up grading is getting harder and harder to justify.
And certainly fewer people are upgrading from compacts. And some who might have done, are drawn to Mirrorless cameras.
Camera sales statistics indicate that a major realignment is in progress, with Phone cameras being the main beneficiary.

Thinking back to my marriage earlier this year and also seeing what happened at Halloween I think that cameras are seen as being better than phones by some normal people, and by normal people I mean people who are not us geeky train spotting stamp collecting lot, in my little circle at least. Every branch of my family has a quality camera now and that wasn't true a few years ago. Daily shooting for most is still with a smartphone but on special occasions the camera comes out.

Some have gone from compacts to a DSLR to Sony mirrorless and some are now back to a compact again but this time a more top end Panasonic or Sony costing several hundred £. All seem to recognise that a good camera gives them better pictures than a smartphone would.

I think that using smartphones has made at least some people more interested in getting better pictures if not getting them interested in photography as such.

There does seem to be a market for better than smartphone cameras like the top end Panasonic and Sony things that my family seem to be buying but not necessarily for DSLR's the bulk and weight and geekiness of which seems to put people I know off.
 
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Thinking back to my marriage earlier this year and also seeing what happened at Halloween I think that cameras are seen as being better than phones by some normal people, and by normal people I mean people who are not us geeky train spotting stamp collecting lot, in my little circle at least. Every branch of my family has a quality camera now and that wasn't true a few years ago. Daily shooting for most is still with a smartphone but on special occasions the camera comes out.

Some have gone from compacts to a DSLR to Sony mirrorless and some are now back to a compact again but this time a more top end Panasonic or Sony costing several hundred £. All seem to recognise that a good camera gives them better pictures than a smartphone would.

I think that using smartphones has made at least some people more interested in getting better pictures if not getting them interested in photography as such.

There does seem to be a market for better than smartphone cameras like the top end Panasonic and Sony things that my family seem to be buying but not necessarily for DSLR's the bulk and weight and geekiness of which seems to put people I know off.

The various categories of cameras are far from being firm or exclusive.... they are incredibly leaky.
With users moving between them with little more reason than lust or GAS.
Even the falling sales of compacts are extremely unlikely to end in their total demise.

But manufacturers will always maximise there efforts where the greatest profits are to be found. at the moment that is camera phones.
However Traditional camera makers do not make phones,
So they must concentrate their efforts to the second best... what this is, may depend as much on their own abilities as on overall demand.
Only Fuji has moved so far into putting all their efforts into the mirrorless market. others have hedged their bets.
 
I'm amused by the idea that the DSLR market is 'shrinking'
Agree with everything you said Phil. The noughts are the aberration in use of SLRs (IMO).
Maybe it’s because people don’t get point and shoot cameras and naturally migrate upwards any more. The people that would always buy a DSLR will continue to buy them, but that market is rapidly shrinking.
I have to say I’m looking at the faff involved with multiple lenses and separate flashes etc and wondering whether something like a Light L16 might not suit me better in the future.
I don't think people really migrated upwards ... they bought a point and shoot, then later a "better" point an shoot (which generally meant one with more zoom length as far as I can tell).

Personally I think things like the Light L16 is going to be even more niche than a DSLR.

PS. I said SLR and DSLR ... but really I don't make a distinction here between DSLR and other ILC for example mirrorless ... its probably wrong but I think of things like Sony A7 as being an "SLR" although I know they aren't "reflex" as there is no mirror.
 
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Even the falling sales of compacts are extremely unlikely to end in their total demise.
The problem is that (as an outside observer) its impossible to tell *what* compact sales are falling. There is an overall shrinkage, but are we talking near extinction of "basic" compact cameras with nearly everything thats left being sold is the higher end (bridge and 1" + sensor) market? Or are almost all sales to people who (for whatever reason) don't want a smartphone as their camera?

The same can be asked of ILC sales (and again I don't see a meaningful distinction between DSLR and mirrorless in terms of market position)... is the fall in the budget consumer models and the enthusiast / pro market holding up?
 
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I think as smartphones get better, the need for people to buy compact cameras falls. Smartphones might not be as good as a purpose made compact camera, but they're certainly good enough for most non photographers.
Absolutely.
In fact I'm surprised anyone would buy a compact now (other than some specialist applications)
 
Without wishing to break the terms of our NDA, 80% of all images taken worldwide are now on smartphones. The point and shoot market is all but disappearing and for those people that still buy DSLRs there's now increased competition from manufacturers that are either new to the sector, or were dead in the water 20 years ago.

Now I'll admit that the above could be true AND more people could be buying DSLRs, but it isn't.

What you're probably experiencing when you go out is a micro-bubble of those people that do buy DSLRs and have the disposable income to invest heavily in their hobby. But I can assure you that in general the market is shrinking despite there being more choice than ever.

You'd could probably write an essay about the socio-economic climate too and how the rise in popularity of SLRs in your examples mirrors the boom-bust economy. Early to mid-80s - boom, late 80s to mid 90s - bust. Late 90s to mid-naughties - boom, late naughties to present day, bust. So they're currently not just competing against smartphones, they're competing against things like mortgage and car payments.

And yet, despite the fact that more people take more pictures or more things than ever before, most smartphone users aren't concerned about image quality though as they often choose to use the worst of the cameras on their phones when taking selfies. But then it doesn't matter because it's only ever going to be seen on a tiny smartphone screen.
 
I'm not saying it's not shrinking, just that it's shrinking from its strongest position ever.

If you compared worldwide DSLR sales for last year with 20 yrs ago, I'd guess it'd not be a 'fall'.

The rise in smartphone photography has driven a rise in more serious camera sales over the last 10 years, that might be slowing, but it's still significant.
 
That's fair, I think. There are probably more 'proper' cameras than ever before, but manufacturers won't be looking at historical figures, they'll be looking at last quarter's.

I think the Kodak analogy is probably relevant here in that they realised too late (or rather refused to acknowledge) the shift in the market from film to digital.

The big camera manufacturers - and I mean that in terms of size of company and the size of the cameras they produce - need to take a long hard look at where the future is heading and how they can monetise it in order to survive. 20 years ago I don't think anyone would have predicted that Sony would be number two in the full-frame camera (US) marketplace by now. Or that mobile phones would be able to do anything other than make calls.
 
Infographics-2016-03-1-768x432.jpg
 
Absolutely.
In fact I'm surprised anyone would buy a compact now (other than some specialist applications)

Zoom range and image quality seem to be factors. In my little circle even the smartphone obsessed seem to accept that what we'd call quality compacts give better image quality than phones. Cameras may not be carried about everyday like a phone but they certainly make an appearance at special occasions.

I don't know who makes what in the higher end compact market or what the sales figures are like but there do seem to be a fair few higher end Sony and Panasonic compacts about. Does anyone else make high end compacts? Dunno.
 
Zoom range and image quality seem to be factors. In my little circle even the smartphone obsessed seem to accept that what we'd call quality compacts give better image quality than phones. Cameras may not be carried about everyday like a phone but they certainly make an appearance at special occasions.

I don't know who makes what in the higher end compact market or what the sales figures are like but there do seem to be a fair few higher end Sony and Panasonic compacts about. Does anyone else make high end compacts? Dunno.
Also ergonomics, I think it is not that easy to take photos of fast moving subjects with a smartphone (like children). For example my wife has a HUAWEI EVA-L09 which is meant to be good and you can get ok photos with it, but only stationary ones (looking on flickr no one has got decent photos of anything that moves either).
 


This says it all... the entire market dropped 81% since 2010.


We are clearly not seeing this on the ground because of continuing ownership of past purchases.
But manufacturers Like Nikon are reacting to the reality of the situation.
From the graph, it is certain that they will not even attempt to grow the non interchangeable lens market. The mass market no longer exists for them.


 
This says it all... the entire market dropped 81% since 2010.


We are clearly not seeing this on the ground because of continuing ownership of past purchases.
But manufacturers Like Nikon are reacting to the reality of the situation.
From the graph, it is certain that they will not even attempt to grow the non interchangeable lens market. The mass market no longer exists for them.
But how much did the market grow between 2000 and 2010?

I'm not suggesting the downturn isn't happening, or is insignificant. But my guess is that it's closer to a 'normalisation' than a collapse.
Edit: I've looked at the CIPA data and you don't have to go back much beyond 2009 to find lower figures than last year.
The graph above is testament to 'lies, damn lies and statistics'.
It's interesting the article it comes from was pushing a 'phone vs camera' agenda, like I said before, compact sales have been massively affected by the ubiquitous camera phone, but the total interchangeable lens market looks healthy compared to historic sales.
 
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But how much did the market grow between 2000 and 2010?

I'm not suggesting the downturn isn't happening, or is insignificant. But my guess is that it's closer to a 'normalisation' than a collapse.

In basic numbers that is so, however the graph shows no sign at all that the fall will slow down.
But it does indicate that manufactures have far to much manufacturing capacity for future needs, and that there is too much risk in investing at the moment. It also demonstrates that D-SLR cameras have started falling from their peak production rates.
It shows that the present fall is even faster than the fall from grace of analog photography.

graph on Flickr
 
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In basic numbers that is so, however the graph shows no sign at all that the fall will slow down.
But it does indicate that manufactures have far to much manufacturing capacity for future needs, and that there is too much risk in investing at the moment. It also demonstrates that D-SLR cameras have started falling from their peak production rates.
It shows that the present fall is even faster than the fall from grace of analog photography.

graph on Flickr
Take the compacts out of that graph, and you lose the drama.
 
Take the compacts out of that graph, and you lose the drama.
Take the compacts out of that graph and you loose about 60 - 80% of sales! ;) Mind you, there doesn't seem to be a split between film compacts and 35mm SLRs in the analog sales data (or medium format either, if that was included), so it does make more detailed comparison with historic data pretty much impossible.
 
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Take the compacts out of that graph, and you lose the drama.

From the previous graph, You can see that Interchangeable camera sales, have fallen from a peak of 21 in 2012 to 11 in 2016 this is getting on for a 48% drop. This is still worrying and will affect investment plans.
 
None of this stopped Nikon introducing a ground-breaking new DSLR this year..........:)

Groundbreaking?

As someone who can't imagine going back to DSLR's I see it as just another of no interest to me at all.
 
But how much did the market grow between 2000 and 2010?

I'm not suggesting the downturn isn't happening, or is insignificant. But my guess is that it's closer to a 'normalisation' than a collapse.
Edit: I've looked at the CIPA data and you don't have to go back much beyond 2009 to find lower figures than last year.
The graph above is testament to 'lies, damn lies and statistics'.
It's interesting the article it comes from was pushing a 'phone vs camera' agenda, like I said before, compact sales have been massively affected by the ubiquitous camera phone, but the total interchangeable lens market looks healthy compared to historic sales.

I would like to share the view that these declines are "closer to normalisation than collapse" but I'm not sure I can. It's not just a case of history repeating itself because nobody knows how far smartphones will push upmarket. They've already gone much further than most people believed possible and wiped out the bread and butter compact business on which the major camera manufacturers came to depend, and that indirectly subsidised the development of enthusiast DSLRs.

Smartphones are an altogether different purchasing proposition that standalone cameras cannot compete with, and they continue to develop rapidly. A large number SLR and DSLR sales in the past were not to enthusiasts, they were not folks like us that have an interest in 'creating' images rather than just recording them, and who enjoy the art and craft of photography, and like using 'proper' cameras and equipment. Those non-enthusiasts, for want of a better term, will jump on the smartphone bandwagon just as soon as capability reaches a certain level - and they'll do it eagerly, with relief from all the hassle. My daughter has just got an iPhone 8 and is looking forward to trying the new camera functions. She has a good eye for a picture and takes thousands of snaps and video clips of our granddaughter - some of them are really excellent. She has used my cameras in the past, but not now and never will.

Proper cameras will not disappear, not as long as there are buyers like us around. But we are a breed apart, heading towards a niche sector, and a bit geeky and unfashionable. We should also expect to pay more in future, as we did in the past when quality photo equipment was, relatively speaking, very expensive.
 
Proper cameras will not disappear, not as long as there are buyers like us around. But we are a breed apart, heading towards a niche sector, and a bit geeky and unfashionable. We should also expect to pay more in future, as we did in the past when quality photo equipment was, relatively speaking, very expensive.
I am not sure about, electronics in general is so much cheaper than it used to be.
 
I am not sure about, electronics in general is so much cheaper than it used to be.

True. Modern manufacturing has changed and electronics have reduced costs dramatically compared to the all-mechanical cameras pre-1980s. The holy grail for camera makers is sensors with global switching all-electronic shutters - a mirrorless and shutter-less solid state camera with no moving parts. That's within sight now.

But lenses will always be complex precision optical and mechanical devices with all the attendant production costs. And many of them are sold in relatively small numbers, tiny compared to say compact camera sales, so scale economies are reduced and development costs amortised over lower production runs.

TBH, I think the future is bright with lots of good technology to come, but we'll have to pay.
 
None of this stopped Nikon introducing a ground-breaking new DSLR this year..........:)

Although Nikon do produce decent bodies, nothing has been truly ground breaking for a very long time, this applies to DSLR's in general and not just Nikon.

Nikon have been suffering financially for years and they have not acted accordingly to avoid the situation they have landed themselves in...... which is to blame the smartphones!!! :(
Unfortunately is the staff who suffer just like most organisations these days.
 
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Although Nikon do produce decent bodies, nothing has been truly ground breaking for a very long time, this applies to DSLR's in general and not just Nikon.

Nikon have been suffering financially for years and they have not acted accordingly to avoid the situation they have landed themselves in...... which is to blame the smartphones!!! :(
Unfortunately is the staff who suffer just like most organisations these days.
Is this because apart from a few features (in camera photo stacking - I would love that with Canon) there is a limit to how much ground can be broken?
Saying that I saw a photo someone put on here with a Canon 1D something of a boxing fight taken at 50k+ ISO and it was not noisy, I think that is ground breaking (I just wish it were available for £300)
 
Although Nikon do produce decent bodies, nothing has been truly ground breaking for a very long time, this applies to DSLR's in general and not just Nikon.

Nikon have been suffering financially for years and they have not acted accordingly to avoid the situation they have landed themselves in...... which is to blame the smartphones!!! :(
Unfortunately is the staff who suffer just like most organisations these days.

Its like smart phones really - how much more is there that can be done?

I think Sony have done wonders making a mirrorless camera with zero blackout, but apart from that there has not been anything truely ground breaking.
 
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