Nikon Z8 vs Z7ii for amateur photography?

[shanitc]

Hi All! I’m looking for some advice on choosing between the Nikon Z8 vs Z7ii.

I’ve read a lot about both, but I’m struggling to work out whether the advantages of the Z8 would actually make a meaningful difference for my photography.

My main interest is broadly nature photography, ranging from landscapes to macro photography of fauna and flora. I also want something versatile for travelling, so I’d be taking photos in cities, on day trips, etc.

I’ll be visiting the Rockies soon, where I’ll be doing quite a bit of hiking. Ideally I don’t want to be carrying around a very heavy camera all day, but I’m happy to accept the extra weight of the Z8 if the improvement in image quality/capability is significant enough.

For context, I’ve been using a Nikon D3300 for around 10 years. I know a little about shooting manually and have used manual settings, but if I’m honest, when I’m on holiday I use the automatic settings for the large majority of my photos simply because it’s convenient when I’m on the move.

That said, with whichever camera I buy, I do want to learn how to get the most out of it. I’m prepared to put the time into learning manual settings rather than just leaving it in Auto forever. At the same time, I don’t want to lose the convenience of having a camera that can essentially be point-and-shoot when I need it to be. There will inevitably be situations where I don’t have time to fiddle with settings, or where I’d like to hand the camera to someone else to take a photo of me. So I’m also interested in how well each camera can work as a genuinely easy, automated camera.

Does the Z7II’s dedicated Auto mode make it noticeably more beginner/point-and-shoot friendly than the Z8’s Programmed Auto setup? Can the Z8 be configured so that, in practice, I can simply pick it up, point it at something and get a good shot without worrying about settings?

There’s a slight time pressure as I’m heading to the Rockies in 2 weeks, so I’ll need to buy the camera soon and have enough time to familiarise myself with it before the trip. Does either camera have an advantage in terms of being easier to pick up quickly for someone coming from a D3300?

Prices I’m looking at:

The Z8 + NIKKOR Z 24–120mm f/4 S kit is currently £3,649.

The Z7II + NIKKOR Z 24–120mm f/4 S kit is £2,469.

£3,649 is a lot of money for me at the moment, but I’m also conscious that I don’t want to buy an “intermediate” camera and then find myself wanting to upgrade again fairly soon. I’d rather spend more now if the Z8 is genuinely going to be worthwhile for me over the long term.

I’m also aware that it’s not all about the body — lenses, technique and actually knowing how to use the camera are hugely important, and I’m hoping those things will come with practice.

I’m not particularly interested in video at the moment, so video capabilities aren’t a priority.

So, for someone coming from a D3300 and currently taking the majority of holiday photos in Auto:

Will I actually notice much difference in the quality of the photographs from the Z8 compared with the Z7II?
At what point do the Z8’s advantages actually become obvious? Or are the two cameras close enough in image quality that I’d be better off saving the £1,180 and putting that money towards another lens/accessories?

I’m also interested in how significant the ~205g difference in body weight actually feels in practice when hiking. Is the Z8 noticeably more cumbersome to carry around, or is it not something you’d worry about?

Thanks!

 

[welshwizard645]

Ask yourself another question, do you need 45.7MP? I would suggest an alternative - Z6iii with the same lens. Your lens choice is good, I have 2 iterations the F mount and the Z, both are excellent.

If you are not taking photos that require cropping later then 24MP should be adequate for large prints.

 

[Nikon photographer]

If you’re not shooting fast-moving action, the Nikon Z7 II could be more than enough camera for you, The Z7 II is an excellent all-purpose camera whereas the Z8, with its stacked CMOS sensor and state-of-the-art autofocus system, is better suited for action,

 

[nog]

Never used the Z7 but used the Z8 for a few weeks, lovely camera and colours but quite a big body compared to sony which I have. Also found the Z8 "memory banks" system not as easy to use as Sony but maybe I would have got used to that.
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[myotis]

Hi All! I’m looking for some advice on choosing between the Nikon Z8 vs Z7ii.

I’ve read a lot about both, but I’m struggling to work out whether the advantages of the Z8 would actually make a meaningful difference for my photography.

If you are doing high speed action, the Z8 is much better than the Z7II

My primary interest is broadly nature photography, ranging from landscapes to macro photography of fauna and flora. I also want something versatile for travelling, so I’d be taking photos in cities, on day trips, etc.

Again, unless you are chasing flying birds or insects or fast moving people, etc there isn't "that" much difference between the two. Professional press photographers are known to use Z7IIs.

I’ll be visiting the Rockies soon, where I’ll be doing quite a bit of hiking. Ideally I don’t want to be carrying around a very heavy camera all day, but I’m happy to accept the extra weight of the Z8 if the improvement in image quality/capability is significant enough.

The Z8 is noticeably heavier, and bigger than the Z7II. In particular, the Z8 is very tall, which I find just "too big" for the majority of my non-dedicated camera bags.

For context, I’ve been using a Nikon D3300 for around 10 years. I know a little about shooting manually and have used manual settings, but if I’m honest, when I’m on holiday I use the automatic settings for the large majority of my photos simply because it’s convenient when I’m on the move.

That said, with whichever camera I buy, I do want to learn how to get the most out of it. I’m prepared to put the time into learning manual settings rather than just leaving it in Auto forever. At the same time, I don’t want to lose the convenience of having a camera that can essentially be point-and-shoot when I need it to be. There will inevitably be situations where I don’t have time to fiddle with settings, or where I’d like to hand the camera to someone else to take a photo of me. So I’m also interested in how well each camera can work as a genuinely easy, automated camera.

Ignoring the custom settings on the Z7II and the memory banks on the Nikon Z8, you can set up the Z8 on auto just as easily as you can the Z7II. You just press the mode button and turn the rear control wheel to select between PASM, and the choice shows up in the top LCD.

If you want save different setting combinations, ie in C1, C2 etc as the Z7II allows, the alternative in the Z8 of memory banks needs a lot of getting your head around, and although I prefer them, it's easy to get lost with them.

Does the Z7II’s dedicated Auto mode make it noticeably more beginner/point-and-shoot friendly than the Z8’s Programmed Auto setup? Can the Z8 be configured so that, in practice, I can simply pick it up, point it at something and get a good shot without worrying about settings?

I'm not sure what you mean by the Z8's programmed auto set up. See above on how it works.

There’s a slight time pressure as I’m heading to the Rockies in 2 weeks, so I’ll need to buy the camera soon and have enough time to familiarise myself with it before the trip. Does either camera have an advantage in terms of being easier to pick up quickly for someone coming from a D3300?

Prices I’m looking at:

The Z8 + NIKKOR Z 24–120mm f/4 S kit is currently £3,649.

The Z7II + NIKKOR Z 24–120mm f/4 S kit is £2,469.

£3,649 is a lot of money for me at the moment, but I’m also conscious that I don’t want to buy an “intermediate” camera and then find myself wanting to upgrade again fairly soon. I’d rather spend more now if the Z8 is genuinely going to be worthwhile for me over the long term.

I’m also aware that it’s not all about the body — lenses, technique and actually knowing how to use the camera are hugely important, and I’m hoping those things will come with practice.

I’m not particularly interested in video at the moment, so video capabilities aren’t a priority.

So, for someone coming from a D3300 and currently taking the majority of holiday photos in Auto:

Will I actually notice much difference in the quality of the photographs from the Z8 compared with the Z7II?

The Z7II gives equivalent or slightly better image quality than the Z8; the benefits of the Z8 aren't in image quality, but in speed and robustness for professional work.

At what point do the Z8’s advantages actually become obvious? Or are the two cameras close enough in image quality that I’d be better off saving the £1,180 and putting that money towards another lens/accessories?

see above

I’m also interested in how significant the ~205g difference in body weight actually feels in practice when hiking. Is the Z8 noticeably more cumbersome to carry around, or is it not something you’d

I'm assuming you haven't been able to compare these cameras in your hands. The Z8 is noticeably heavier and bulkier than the Z7II.

Given you are talking about using it with the 24-120, and for hiking, I wouldn't hesitate in going with a Z7II. You have a much more portable setup, with the same image quality.

If I was going on this trip specifically for wildlife photography or a sporting event I would take a Z8 (and long lenses), but for general travel/hiking photography, I would take a Z7II.

Additionally, as you only have two weeks, the Z7II is probably a bit easier to learn in the time available.

I should add, I don't actually have a Z7II, but I regularly consider adding one to my Z8 (z50II and Zf), so I can use it on occasions much like the one you are describing.

worry about?

Thanks!

 

[viewfromthenorth]

Hi All! I’m looking for some advice on choosing between the Nikon Z8 vs Z7ii.

I’ve read a lot about both, but I’m struggling to work out whether the advantages of the Z8 would actually make a meaningful difference for my photography.

My main interest is broadly nature photography, ranging from landscapes to macro photography of fauna and flora. I also want something versatile for travelling, so I’d be taking photos in cities, on day trips, etc.

I’ll be visiting the Rockies soon, where I’ll be doing quite a bit of hiking. Ideally I don’t want to be carrying around a very heavy camera all day, but I’m happy to accept the extra weight of the Z8 if the improvement in image quality/capability is significant enough.

For context, I’ve been using a Nikon D3300 for around 10 years. I know a little about shooting manually and have used manual settings, but if I’m honest, when I’m on holiday I use the automatic settings for the large majority of my photos simply because it’s convenient when I’m on the move.

That said, with whichever camera I buy, I do want to learn how to get the most out of it. I’m prepared to put the time into learning manual settings rather than just leaving it in Auto forever. At the same time, I don’t want to lose the convenience of having a camera that can essentially be point-and-shoot when I need it to be. There will inevitably be situations where I don’t have time to fiddle with settings, or where I’d like to hand the camera to someone else to take a photo of me. So I’m also interested in how well each camera can work as a genuinely easy, automated camera.

Does the Z7II’s dedicated Auto mode make it noticeably more beginner/point-and-shoot friendly than the Z8’s Programmed Auto setup? Can the Z8 be configured so that, in practice, I can simply pick it up, point it at something and get a good shot without worrying about settings?

There’s a slight time pressure as I’m heading to the Rockies in 2 weeks, so I’ll need to buy the camera soon and have enough time to familiarise myself with it before the trip. Does either camera have an advantage in terms of being easier to pick up quickly for someone coming from a D3300?

Prices I’m looking at:

The Z8 + NIKKOR Z 24–120mm f/4 S kit is currently £3,649.

The Z7II + NIKKOR Z 24–120mm f/4 S kit is £2,469.

£3,649 is a lot of money for me at the moment, but I’m also conscious that I don’t want to buy an “intermediate” camera and then find myself wanting to upgrade again fairly soon. I’d rather spend more now if the Z8 is genuinely going to be worthwhile for me over the long term.

I’m also aware that it’s not all about the body — lenses, technique and actually knowing how to use the camera are hugely important, and I’m hoping those things will come with practice.

I’m not particularly interested in video at the moment, so video capabilities aren’t a priority.

So, for someone coming from a D3300 and currently taking the majority of holiday photos in Auto:

Will I actually notice much difference in the quality of the photographs from the Z8 compared with the Z7II?
At what point do the Z8’s advantages actually become obvious? Or are the two cameras close enough in image quality that I’d be better off saving the £1,180 and putting that money towards another lens/accessories?

I’m also interested in how significant the ~205g difference in body weight actually feels in practice when hiking. Is the Z8 noticeably more cumbersome to carry around, or is it not something you’d worry about?

Thanks!

I’ve been using a Z7ii for 2 or 3 years now, the only thing I’ve struggled with is the autofocus when I’ve photographed faster moving stuff, and I don’t do much of that. As most of my photography is of things that don’t move fast, if at all, it’s been a fantastic camera. Much as I’d like a Z8, I can’t personally justify it for the few times a year I need its particular capabilities.

In your situation I’d go with the Z6ii (or iii) or Z7ii. The image quality from those with a 24-70F4 or 24-120 F4 is fantastic.

 

[snerkler]

I would suggest trying both, I really rated the ergonomics of the Z7 I had but hated the Z8 when I tried it, it felt like I was holding a brick, however some people love the ergonomics of the Z8 saying it's the best camera they've ever picked up.

 

[trevorbray]

I would suggest trying both, I really rated the ergonomics of the Z7 I had but hated the Z8 when I tried it, it felt like I was holding a brick, however some people love the ergonomics of the Z8 saying it's the best camera they've ever picked up.

This. I also briefly had the Z8. Fantastic performance. But I hated it in the hand. It had to go.

 

[JohnMcL7]

I would suggest trying both, I really rated the ergonomics of the Z7 I had but hated the Z8 when I tried it, it felt like I was holding a brick, however some people love the ergonomics of the Z8 saying it's the best camera they've ever picked up.

I'd really echo this advice - I've seen people trying to choose between two cameras then try them out in store and buy something completely different they weren't originally considering because they liked the feel of it best.

The main advantage of the Z8 is its high speed capabilities but another advantage is it's completely silent since there's no mechanical shutter. I bought the camera for a mix of both abilities and probably not worth it for the silent shooting on its own although I find the latter very handy.

 

[the black fox]

I switched from Olympus MFT to a Z8 earlier this year and totally love it even with the 180-600 it just produces outstanding sharp images consistently , however its not a pick up and use out of the box camera you have to adjust it to suit your needs and two weeks or less could cause a lot of unforeseen problems. and is simply not enough time , plus to get the best out of it you would need to invest in CFexpress card/s plus reader ,and possibly upgrade your computer to deal with the larger files .
so on that basis I would go for the z7

 

[welshwizard645]

I switched from Olympus MFT to a Z8 earlier this year and totally love it even with the 180-600 it just produces outstanding sharp images consistently , however its not a pick up and use out of the box camera you have to adjust it to suit your needs and two weeks or less could cause a lot of unforeseen problems. and is simply not enough time , plus to get the best out of it you would need to invest in CFexpress card/s plus reader ,and possibly upgrade your computer to deal with the larger files .
so on that basis I would go for the z7

Z7 and Z8 would have the same file sizes, both being 45.7MP....but you are more likely to take a greater number of images with the Z8 due to the nature of the beast. Users of the Z7 would still need CFEx Type B cards (as would Z6iii owners) ('why get a camera with 2 slots if you are only going to use the 'slower' Sd slot?').

Great point about the handling, my hands feel more comfortable with the bulkier camera...

I still think that in terms of needing something in 2 weeks, the Z6ii or Z6iii make more sense (maybe even a Z5ii) as a progression from a D3300.. Z8 is too much of a jump in my opinion.

 

[LongLensPhotography]

z7 is ancient by now. If funds are the limiting factor pick one up used for three figures. That;s all they are worth.

z8 is this decade and miles better in every single way. To be fair nikon is well overdue an update even here but notably sensor still holds up reasonable well to competition. Going rate is 2k from the far east and it would be insane to pay a penny more for one.

 

[snerkler]

z7 is ancient by now. If funds are the limiting factor pick one up used for three figures. That;s all they are worth.

z8 is this decade and miles better in every single way. To be fair nikon is well overdue an update even here but notably sensor still holds up reasonable well to competition. Going rate is 2k from the far east and it would be insane to pay a penny more for one.

The OP is looking at teh Z7 II which was released in 2020 I believe so I wouldn't say it's ancient. Sure it's probably not your first choice for sports and wildlife, but it never was and it's still a very capable camera producing lovely images

 

[Peter123]

I own a Z8 and a Z5ii. I used to own a Z7.

"I’ll be visiting the Rockies soon, where I’ll be doing quite a bit of hiking. Ideally I don’t want to be carrying around a very heavy camera all day, but I’m happy to accept the extra weight of the Z8 if the improvement in image quality/capability is significant enough."

To me this says Z5 ii or Z6 iii.

It also depends on your body size/weight. Also your hand size. You really need to handle these cameras to see which suits you best.

BTW, the Z8 and the Z7 ii have the same sensor.

 

[LongLensPhotography]

BTW, the Z8 and the Z7 ii have the same sensor.

other than pixel count they are night and day.

The OP is looking at teh Z7 II which was released in 2020 I believe so I wouldn't say it's ancient. Sure it's probably not your first choice for sports and wildlife, but it never was and it's still a very capable camera producing lovely images

sure, but you wouldn't pay £2469 for one with just a few months to 2027!

 

[snerkler]

other than pixel count they are night and day.


sure, but you wouldn't pay £2469 for one with just a few months to 2027!

They're currently £1599 body only, it does appear that the Z7 III is just around the corner but who knows when and how much it will be. For £1599 it's a relative bargain imo. That being said for £200 more the Z6 III is a better camera if you don't want/need all those megapixels, although I hate those flip out screens and would prefer a tilt screen over that.

 

[imattersuk]

I own a Z8 and a Z5ii. I used to own a Z7.

"I’ll be visiting the Rockies soon, where I’ll be doing quite a bit of hiking. Ideally I don’t want to be carrying around a very heavy camera all day, but I’m happy to accept the extra weight of the Z8 if the improvement in image quality/capability is significant enough."

To me this says Z5 ii or Z6 iii.

It also depends on your body size/weight. Also your hand size. You really need to handle these cameras to see which suits you best.

BTW, the Z8 and the Z7 ii have the same sensor.

No they don't, the Z8 is stacked hence the huge difference in performance.

 

[myotis]

I own a Z8 and a Z5ii. I used to own a Z7.

"I’ll be visiting the Rockies soon, where I’ll be doing quite a bit of hiking. Ideally I don’t want to be carrying around a very heavy camera all day, but I’m happy to accept the extra weight of the Z8 if the improvement in image quality/capability is significant enough."

To me this says Z5 ii or Z6 iii.

It also depends on your body size/weight. Also your hand size. You really need to handle these cameras to see which suits you best.

BTW, the Z8 and the Z7 ii have the same sensor.

I don't that it's possible for them to have the same sensor, the Z8 is a very fast "stacked" sensor, but the Z7II isn't stacked and much slower.

Nikon declared the Z9/Z8 sensor as "next generation" with the Z7II sensor still based on the D850 sensor.

 

[Peter123]

I have never seen shot with the Z8 that looks better (to me) than ones with my Z7. Both 45mp.

 

[Peter123]

No they don't, the Z8 is stacked hence the huge difference in performance.

For the Rockies and for general use does that matter?

 

[snerkler]

I have never seen shot with the Z8 that looks better (to me) than ones with my Z7. Both 45mp.

I don't see why they would, a stacked sensor doesn't improve image quality just performance

 

[snerkler]

For the Rockies and for general use does that matter?

I don't think they meant that it does, they were just clearing up that they aren't the same sensor

 

[phinix]

I think that for amateur needs Z7II is more than enough. Z8 is a total pro in my eyes, but for travelling, if you really need 45MP, then z7ii is 100% enough.
Weight wise - I just spent 2 weeks in Italy (40C heat) with Zf and 2 zooms - temperature prevented me from using my camera - it was that bad. I think every 100g is important and makes a difference.
If you are looking for 24–120mm f/4 S - I'm selling one now here on our forum, brand new, it would save you some money as well.

 

[gman]

The Z8 is a fair bit bulkier than the Z7ii and as you've not mentioned photographing anything incredibly fast so the Z8's extra peformance may be unnecessary.

The gap between the lens and the right grip is tighter with the Z8, whether or not that's a real-world problem I don't know.

Worth noting that the Z6iii has lower dynamic range at base ISO, but I believe it is better at higher ISO's. Whether it's all noticeable enough is debatable.

There's a good blog here with a similar quandary: https://www.heiko-sieger.info/nikon-z8-or-nikon-z7-ii-for-landscape-and-travel-photography/

Does it have to be Nikon?

 

[snerkler]

I think that for amateur needs Z7II is more than enough. Z8 is a total pro in my eyes, but for travelling, if you really need 45MP, then z7ii is 100% enough.
Weight wise - I just spent 2 weeks in Italy (40C heat) with Zf and 2 zooms - temperature prevented me from using my camera - it was that bad. I think every 100g is important and makes a difference.
If you are looking for 24–120mm f/4 S - I'm selling one now here on our forum, brand new, it would save you some money as well.

I agree that the Z7 II is more than adequate but I've never really understood this "pro" label, there are plenty of "amateur" photographers out there that are better than a lot of "pros". I know it's a marketing thing but it almost suggest that unless you're a "pro" you shouldn't be looking at these cameras, whereas in reality a lot of amateurs get huge benefit of the features that "pro" bodies offer. I wish they'd say something like high end bodies or something, and yes it's a little pedantic

This is not aimed at you btw

The Z8 is a fair bit bulkier than the Z7ii and as you've not mentioned photographing anything incredibly fast so the Z8's extra peformance may be unnecessary.

The gap between the lens and the right grip is tighter with the Z8, whether or not that's a real-world problem I don't know.

Worth noting that the Z6iii has lower dynamic range at base ISO, but I believe it is better at higher ISO's. Whether it's all noticeable enough is debatable.

There's a good blog here with a similar quandary: https://www.heiko-sieger.info/nikon-z8-or-nikon-z7-ii-for-landscape-and-travel-photography/

Does it have to be Nikon?



View attachment 492183

I've got large hands and the grip space between the lens isn't an issue imo

 

[myotis]

I have never seen shot with the Z8 that looks better (to me) than ones with my Z7. Both 45mp.

If you look at the numbers, the Z7 (as does the D850) gives slightly better image quality than the Z8. But as I said in my reply to the OP, I doubt if anyone would notice)

 

[phinix]

I agree that the Z7 II is more than adequate but I've never really understood this "pro" label, there are plenty of "amateur" photographers out there that are better than a lot of "pros". I know it's a marketing thing but it almost suggest that unless you're a "pro" you shouldn't be looking at these cameras, whereas in reality a lot of amateurs get huge benefit of the features that "pro" bodies offer. I wish they'd say something like high end bodies or something, and yes it's a little pedantic

By pro I mean paid work, not the actual equipment. Simply, pro - paid work - need incredible fast AF for moving subjects, all those bells and whistles of latest body cpu, settings etc.
So when I say pro, I mean someone (not like top experienced photographer) who does paid work - Z8 would be best choice.
I saw many "pro" photographers doing paid work and had no clue what they were doing

 

[snerkler]

By pro I mean paid work, not the actual equipment. Simply, pro - paid work - need incredible fast AF for moving subjects, all those bells and whistles of latest body cpu, settings etc.
So when I say pro, I mean someone (not like top experienced photographer) who does paid work - Z8 would be best choice.
I saw many "pro" photographers doing paid work and had no clue what they were doing

Yeah I know the definition of a pro photographer

But that’s exactly my point, why are some cameras ‘reserved’ just for people who do paid work, does this mean that people who don’t get paid for photography aren’t worthy of such cameras or don’t get any benefit from these cameras?

 

[imattersuk]

For the Rockies and for general use does that matter?

Never said it did but your statement that it was the same sensor was wrong.

 

[Kieran_89]

Unless you’re printing huge prints, Z6iii all the way, pretty much a Z8 without the MP.

Side by side you can’t see a difference between 24mp and 45 at the same print size.

Z6iii is smaller, lighter and cheaper.

You can get a Z6iii + 24-120 for £1700, way better value than a Z7ii or Z8 body only.

 

[Peter123]

Never said it did but your statement that it was the same sensor was wrong.

I stand chastised at the altar of Nippon.

 

[myotis]

I agree that the Z7 II is more than adequate but I've never really understood this "pro" label, there are plenty of "amateur" photographers out there that are better than a lot of "pros". I know it's a marketing thing but it almost suggest that unless you're a "pro" you shouldn't be looking at these cameras, whereas in reality a lot of amateurs get huge benefit of the features that "pro" bodies offer. I wish they'd say something like high end bodies or something, and yes it's a little pedantic

This is not aimed at you btw

I've got large hands and the grip space between the lens isn't an issue imo

The "Pro" label with Nikon, which was used for the D500, D850, D4, D5, D6 and now the Z9 and Z8 are "primarily" differentiated by build quality or ergonomics, and "rarely" by features or image quality. Occasionally, there is indeed a specific feature that warrants a "pro" body, but equally, this can apply to non-pro bodies, e.g. the enormous screen and video features on the Nikon ZR.

At one time, to become a member of Nikon Professional Services, you needed to own at least one "pro" body, which meant one of the above.

As a generalisation, professional equipment (not just cameras) doesn't actually have more features than non-professional equipment; it will just take more abuse and have a longer life when used regularly. You used to get (and maybe still do) information on the life of a shutter (number of actuations) and lens mount life (number of times you could change a lens without risk to flat alignment) for the different Nikon cameras, and there was a clear difference between the "pro" bodies, the "pro-am" bodies and the "hobbyist".

Professional equipment will never be branded "pro", as that is a marketing nonsense (and actual professionals know through reputation which kit will stand up to professional use and abuse). It will cost a lot more money than non-pro equipment and often offer fewer features. The latter, loved by the marketing people who can do one of those tables with tick marks to show how much "better" their product is than their competitors.

I don't have a problem with kit referred to as being "pro" (when it really is) but only when it refers to the quality of build, as it hardly ever has anything to do with the quality of the photographs it can produce.

Having said all that, I agree with the overall sentiment of your post in terms of how Pro and amateur are often used.

 

[imattersuk]

I stand chastised at the altar of Nippon.

No need to bring ant powder into this.

 

[myotis]

By pro I mean paid work, not the actual equipment. Simply, pro - paid work - need incredible fast AF for moving subjects, all those bells and whistles of latest body cpu, settings etc.
So when I say pro, I mean someone (not like top experienced photographer) who does paid work - Z8 would be best choice.
I saw many "pro" photographers doing paid work and had no clue what they were doing

I probably should just leave this alone, but there are many types of professional photographers, as there are many types of amateur photographers.

As in my other post, the main reason professionals buy "professional" equipment is build quality, not "bells and whistles," and professional photographers are possibly the ones most likely to be still be using camera gear that is far removed from a Z8.

At least one high-end international advertising campaign photographer is using a Nikon D850, and a few are using Canons of similar or older vintage. I watched an interview with a top press photographer a few weeks ago who is using a Nikon Z7II and I'm also aware of several documentary-type photographers using older Fuji cameras.

Indeed, if you listen to interviews with internationally respected professional photographers (from most genres), they are using everything from Phase One cameras, all the way through to, well anything you care to think of, from pretty any era you care to pick.

The exceptions are probably professional sports and wildlife photographers who tend to be more technologically aware, because there are genuine benefits from the latest cameras. Even then, there still seems to be good numbers still using Nikon D5/D6s, and I assume the equivalent Canon models. Though that definitely appears to be dwindling.

But this is also where an amateur, who wants to use Nikon, will also benefit from a Z8, Z9 or Z6III, over any of the other Nikons available. With the Z8 probably the most versatile as a wildlife and general purpose camera.

I'm not disagreeing that a Z8 is a good choice as an all round professional camera, but for many (maybe most) professionals, most of the bells and whistles and things like incredibly fast AF might not be that relevant.

 

[phinix]

Yeah I know the definition of a pro photographer

But that’s exactly my point, why are some cameras ‘reserved’ just for people who do paid work, does this mean that people who don’t get paid for photography aren’t worthy of such cameras or don’t get any benefit from these cameras? (Y)

Also, by pro camera, I normally mean bigger models, with extra grips like Z9, or biggest EVF, extra card slots, lots of custom buttons and other buttons specificly for some settings (like back in a days ISO, WB buttons were on biggest models) - Z8 being better choice for pros, doesnt mean cannot be used by amateurs - nothing is reserved for specific groups of people, we can buy whatever we want
Nowadays most models released closed to each other have practically all "bells and whistles", just maybe designed differently outside. Like Zf has same guts as Z5II, then Z6III has most of same guts, but added few settings better for video etc
I have a feeling that nowadays manufacturers cannot cut features for different models, cause it would kill sale of those - they throw all they can squeeze out of cpus or sensors to all newly released models, but shape bodies a bit differently to make a different statement. Which is good I think.

Anyway, I'm one of those terrible amateurs, who cannot get out of GAS, swaps bodies and glass constantly searching for an end game
If I was after 45MP body and no need for super fast responses, I would get Z7II (cause there is still no 7iii on horison). Z8 would be too big and heavy for me. My Zf is killing me with just 2 zooms

 

[wibbly]

If you don’t need the 45MP size of the Z7ii or Z8, the Z5ii is probably the best bang for buck Nikon at present…

 

[snerkler]

The "Pro" label with Nikon, which was used for the D500, D850, D4, D5, D6 and now the Z9 and Z8 are "primarily" differentiated by build quality or ergonomics, and "rarely" by features or image quality. Occasionally, there is indeed a specific feature that warrants a "pro" body, but equally, this can apply to non-pro bodies, e.g. the enormous screen and video features on the Nikon ZR.

At one time, to become a member of Nikon Professional Services, you needed to own at least one "pro" body, which meant one of the above.

As a generalisation, professional equipment (not just cameras) doesn't actually have more features than non-professional equipment; it will just take more abuse and have a longer life when used regularly. You used to get (and maybe still do) information on the life of a shutter (number of actuations) and lens mount life (number of times you could change a lens without risk to flat alignment) for the different Nikon cameras, and there was a clear difference between the "pro" bodies, the "pro-am" bodies and the "hobbyist".

Professional equipment will never be branded "pro", as that is a marketing nonsense (and actual professionals know through reputation which kit will stand up to professional use and abuse). It will cost a lot more money than non-pro equipment and often offer fewer features. The latter, loved by the marketing people who can do one of those tables with tick marks to show how much "better" their product is than their competitors.

I don't have a problem with kit referred to as being "pro" (when it really is) but only when it refers to the quality of build, as it hardly ever has anything to do with the quality of the photographs it can produce.

Having said all that, I agree with the overall sentiment of your post in terms of how Pro and amateur are often used.

Also, by pro camera, I normally mean bigger models, with extra grips like Z9, or biggest EVF, extra card slots, lots of custom buttons and other buttons specificly for some settings (like back in a days ISO, WB buttons were on biggest models) - Z8 being better choice for pros, doesnt mean cannot be used by amateurs - nothing is reserved for specific groups of people, we can buy whatever we want
Nowadays most models released closed to each other have practically all "bells and whistles", just maybe designed differently outside. Like Zf has same guts as Z5II, then Z6III has most of same guts, but added few settings better for video etc
I have a feeling that nowadays manufacturers cannot cut features for different models, cause it would kill sale of those - they throw all they can squeeze out of cpus or sensors to all newly released models, but shape bodies a bit differently to make a different statement. Which is good I think.

Anyway, I'm one of those terrible amateurs, who cannot get out of GAS, swaps bodies and glass constantly searching for an end game
If I was after 45MP body and no need for super fast responses, I would get Z7II (cause there is still no 7iii on horison). Z8 would be too big and heavy for me. My Zf is killing me with just 2 zooms

Completely agree with both of you, however I do feel that my point has been lost/misunderstoond, or not been put across very well (more likely).

@phinix I have been one of the worst for GAS (although not quite as bad as @trevorbray ), a lot of it was chasing the holy grail of lightweight and top image quality, but some of it is simply because I'm intersted and enjoy trying different things out. That being said my GAS of the last 4 or 5 years has been curbed quite a lot and I'm very settled on the Sony system. I'm sure things will still come along to pique my intersest though

 

[myotis]

Completely agree with both of you, however I do feel that my point has been lost/misunderstoond, or not been put across very well (more likely).

Hopefully, I didn't, as I said I agreed with you.

I suggested that the use of pro and amateur used in the way you described it being used wasn't how it should be used, for the reasons you described.

I then gave what I believed to be a valid use of "pro" when applied to equipment, which has nothing to do with the capability of the "user", but everything to do with the capabilities that the equipment offers.

@phinix I have been one of the worst for GAS (although not quite as bad as @trevorbray ), a lot of it was chasing the holy grail of lightweight and top image quality, but some of it is simply because I'm intersted and enjoy trying different things out. That being said my GAS of the last 4 or 5 years has been curbed quite a lot and I'm very settled on the Sony system. I'm sure things will still come along to pique my intersest though

 

[sk66]

Personally, if I was getting only one mirrorless camera as a "do it all" I would want one that still includes an optional mechanical shutter (i.e. not the Z8). The reason is because there are times where rolling shutter effect is visible (even with the Z8's readout speed), but more-so due to banding issues with PWM lighting.

FWIW, I'm still using my D850 and legacy lenses for a lot of stuff... there's no reason why you have to move into mirrorless (and legacy kit is something of a bargain these days).