1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  1. mikew

    mikew

    Messages:
    1,877
    Name:
    mike
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
  2. trevorbray

    trevorbray

    Messages:
    3,747
    Name:
    Trevor
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    Gosh..
     
  3. mikew

    mikew

    Messages:
    1,877
    Name:
    mike
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    Not that much of a surprise really,its to be hoped they have something else in the wings waiting.
     
  4. Riz_Guru

    Riz_Guru

    Messages:
    2,896
    Name:
    Riz
    Edit My Images:
    No
    Wonder what this announcement will do to Nikon's share price and forecasts! :D
     
  5. Riz_Guru

    Riz_Guru

    Messages:
    2,896
    Name:
    Riz
    Edit My Images:
    No
    And as expected...... is this the start of the end of Nikon? :eek:

    http://www.nikon.com/news/2017/20170213_1_e.pdf

     
  6. snerkler

    snerkler

    Messages:
    8,966
    Edit My Images:
    No
    The future doesn't look particularly rosy does it. I can't see (and hope to god it isn't) it being the beginning of the end for Nikon though.
     
  7. Eloise

    Eloise

    Messages:
    585
    Name:
    Eloise
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    Start of the end may be overstating things... but Nikon need to focus on what they do best, DSLRs - the problem is ILC market is shrinking mainly as a result of two factors (1) lower end people don't need ILC to get the quality of images they are wanting and (2) at the top end pros are not needing to replace every time a new model comes out because cameras are already good enough.

    I wonder if any of the R&D from the DL range could feed into improving the Nikon1 range?
     
    rjbell likes this.
  8. rjbell

    rjbell

    Messages:
    4,203
    Name:
    Robert
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    I don't see a happy ending
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2017
  9. SsSsSsSsSnake

    SsSsSsSsSnake

    Messages:
    4,833
    Name:
    Chris
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
  10. michael23

    michael23

    Messages:
    12,848
    Name:
    michael
    Edit My Images:
    No
    A shame indeed, one of those was on my list too. Hopefully they will keep going and something to help them.
     
  11. Greggster

    Greggster Edward Woodward

    Messages:
    1,679
    Name:
    Gregg
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    It's a shambles from Nikon, they've been on the ropes for a while now, I suppose they'll close a lot of their Companies and keep the core. Not sure if their action cameras are selling, if not they'll be next.
     
  12. minnnt

    minnnt

    Messages:
    18,249
    Name:
    David
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    I'm gutted tbh. The 18-50 was quite appealing to me.

    Shame.
     
  13. ManVan

    ManVan

    Messages:
    429
    Name:
    Neil.
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    And me.
     
  14. Ed Sutton

    Ed Sutton

    Messages:
    3,477
    Name:
    Dave
    Edit My Images:
    No
    Me too.
     
  15. Eloise

    Eloise

    Messages:
    585
    Name:
    Eloise
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    I think the two things Nikon really need to do is (a) get some software developers in... SmartBridge from what I read is rather lacking; either get in developers or open the API and let others develop and (b) they need to market better. In terms of DSLRs Nikons offerings should be outselling Canon but they aren't because they aren't marketing well.

    The action cameras again are pretty good hardware, but the software is a nightmare.

    All IMO of course and as a Nikon fan girl (though in the past Canon and Minolta purchases as well as Olympus).
     
  16. rjbell

    rjbell

    Messages:
    4,203
    Name:
    Robert
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    Me too although the lack of evf was a mistake.
     
  17. minnnt

    minnnt

    Messages:
    18,249
    Name:
    David
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    I agree although I would have more than like bought the add on one.
     
  18. snerkler

    snerkler

    Messages:
    8,966
    Edit My Images:
    No
    I don't think it's marketing that's necessarily letting Nikon down, it's more to do with Canon having the lion's share of the market and people are too heavily invested to change.
     
  19. redhed17

    redhed17

    Messages:
    4,428
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    I don't agree, they should be telling potential users where their cameras are better than the competition, but they don't, they have general marketing slogans. I read this yesterday which kind of highlights what I think. :rolleyes:

    As for the DL cameras, what a shambles. Nikon seem to be making so many bad decisions it's like they have a death wish, and/or are run by incompetents. D5 and D500 aside, the SnapBridge farce, taking features off replacement cameras (no sensor cleaning, or external mic port on D3400), releasing KeyMission to try and take on Go-Pro who are losing money as an established company in the portable/action cam field and expecting success. Add to that all the quality control problems on various cameras over the last few years and their reputation seems to be going down the pan.

    I'm glad I have Nikon gear that fills my needs now, and that will hopefully last for many years. :)
     
    chuckles and SsSsSsSsSnake like this.
  20. Nawty

    Nawty

    Messages:
    5,494
    Name:
    Ned
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    I don't know, the new PF lenses should have been enough to sway a lot of people (don't think Canon have an equivalent?), I think their marketing team are missing a trick or two as there is no clear differentiation in a crowded market, they are giving no reason why Nikon are the 'best' choice even though their sensors offer a clear advantage over Canon and their flash system is much better IME. Clear differentiation is something that the m43 companies have realised and their sales are growing, most m43 users will be able to give you a list of solid reasons they shoot m43 (size, speed etc) whereas I don't really see that with Canon or Nikon yet even Pentax have some very good specific reasons to get Pentax over the others.

    Anyway, that announcement is pretty standard for any business undergoing restructure and should be a sign that the future is brighter as they are refocussing on core businesses and pursuing a new strategy which will hopefully work. The interesting bit is that they are going for profit rather than revenue which basically means cost cutting and price rises on the expensive kit and not bothering with things like compact cameras where there is little profit (and no revenue nowadays).
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2017
    chuckles, snerkler and Eloise like this.
  21. snerkler

    snerkler

    Messages:
    8,966
    Edit My Images:
    No
    I didn't say marketing didn't have an impact, just I don't think poor marketing has as much influence as market share. Just my opinion of course.

    As far as having good gear to last, I have that too but my only concerns are that if Nikon do go down the swanny that gear is going to massively devalue. But I can't honestly see that happening, I think someone else would take Nikon on rather than it disappearing altogether.
     
  22. Nawty

    Nawty

    Messages:
    5,494
    Name:
    Ned
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    That flies in the face of many decades of consumerism exemplars as marketing is everything and people believe in brands, sad as that may be.
     
  23. snerkler

    snerkler

    Messages:
    8,966
    Edit My Images:
    No
    It does but I think there's two different target audiences. You have your consumers where marketing is more important, and prosumers/enthusiasts and pros who are less likely (imo) to be influenced my marketing (Probably why I never see TV ads for DSLRs, only consumer compacts). It would be interesting to see the sales figures of newbie togs to see whether there's more who buy Nikon or Canon. But even then this is skewed as I speak to a lot of people who buy Canon as a family member or friend has Canon, and as Canon have a much larger share of the DSLR market this is more likely to happen than someone buying Nikon due to a family member or friend owning Nikon.

    Obviously these are just my own observations and musings, I haven't had the breakdown of sales figures ;)

    Another thing to bear in mind is that Canon are a much bigger company as a whole and are not solely reliant on cameras. I know Nikon make other optics but how big this business is I don't know.
     
  24. redhed17

    redhed17

    Messages:
    4,428
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    Most of Nikon's, and I assume Canon's, sales for DSLRs, are at the entry level. How much profit they make in comparison to cameras higher up their ranges, only the companies know, but minor iterations, and in some cases, replacing models whilst removing features doesn't seem to make sense to me. :thinking: Because cameras are aimed at beginners doesn't mean they will all not do any research on what to buy, and if you don't snag users at the beginning, then you will have less people to keep and progress and upgrade. Don't offer people definite reasons to choose you over a competitor, and as has been pointed out, people will gravitate more to what their friends and family use, which for Pentax and Sony (when Sony also made DSLR's) were Canon and Nikon, and Canon over Nikon for numbers of users.

    Nikon have had a sensor advantage over Canon for a number of years for Dynamic Range, Resolution and high ISO performance, but you wouldn't know it from their marketing. Now Canon are closing the gap and adding fast on sensor AF to improve their Live View and Video performance, Nikon have squandered the lead they had in the sensor department imho. They only have themselves to blame for what happens to them if it all goes bad.
     
  25. StewartR

    StewartR Efrem Zimbalist Jr Advertiser

    Messages:
    9,836
    Name:
    Stewart (duh)
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    PF lenses? Plural? There's only one so far, isn't there?

    Canon do have an equivalent. They call it Diffractive Optics and they've had it for ages without making it mainstream. Their first DO lens, the 400mm f/4, came out as long ago as 2001...
    https://www.dpreview.com/articles/9510057728/canon-400do

    If Nikon have found a way to make PF/DO technology affordable and Canon haven't, that would potentially be significant. But I don't see any indication that that's the case.
     
  26. frod

    frod

    Messages:
    444
    Name:
    Kev
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    They don't make enough dx primes. It's cynical and deliberate to make FX more attractive despite few people needing it and they are getting their just desserts.
     
    SsSsSsSsSnake and foggy4ever like this.
  27. chuckles

    chuckles

    Messages:
    3,974
    Name:
    Barry
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    Quite possibly the opposite may occur - supply and demand?
     
  28. Willo

    Willo

    Messages:
    633
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    Yep, for years they have neglected DX users, their bread and butter. In the meantime other companies have catered for them by offering a full suite of fast primes that people want.
     
    Fuguru and SsSsSsSsSnake like this.
  29. SsSsSsSsSnake

    SsSsSsSsSnake

    Messages:
    4,833
    Name:
    Chris
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    Agreed ,let down their dx customers re lens
     
  30. Riz_Guru

    Riz_Guru

    Messages:
    2,896
    Name:
    Riz
    Edit My Images:
    No
    Correct.... I had the Nikon D7000 and 17-55mm f2.8 DX setup, was great but there wasn't many other high-grade (pro) DX lenses available.
    Nikon will finish eventually just like Kodak :D
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2017
  31. Eloise

    Eloise

    Messages:
    585
    Name:
    Eloise
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    Well not Canon... they (afaics) have less primes. It's only companies like Fuji who are dedicated to "crop" sensors who have an extensive lineup of lenses dedicated to crop sensor cameras.
     
  32. chuckles

    chuckles

    Messages:
    3,974
    Name:
    Barry
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    I'm at loss to understand this..... why would you need a Pro-grade DX lens when there will be a Pro FX lens which will fit any DX body! (Apart from cost, but you did say Pro)

    Surely buying FX lenses (which will work on DX bodies) would allow you to upgrade to an FX body should you so wish.

    (I've just been researching the Canon equivalent to this and taking a Crop lens [EFS] into a FF body [EF] is just not allowed and has been known to cause failure of the mirror - I need to go and clean my eyes after such a perversion)
     
  33. snerkler

    snerkler

    Messages:
    8,966
    Edit My Images:
    No
    Agreed, I don't understand the comments above. Canon, as far as I can see, only have 2 primes for EF-S (Including one macro) whereas Nikon has 4 DX Primes (including one macro). Neither are extensive in the slightest, but Nikon has double that of Canon.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2017
    chuckles likes this.
  34. Willo

    Willo

    Messages:
    633
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    Well maybe they should have plugged the gaps rather than spending money on entering saturated markets. It's not as if users haven't been asking for these lenses for years. DX users are their bread and butter, they need to stop assuming everyone want FX. As for Canon, I wouldn't worry about them, they do their own thing.
     
  35. minnnt

    minnnt

    Messages:
    18,249
    Name:
    David
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    What have they neglected exactly?
     
    chuckles likes this.
  36. Riz_Guru

    Riz_Guru

    Messages:
    2,896
    Name:
    Riz
    Edit My Images:
    No
    Some people want the best possible glass for their DX bodies, DX lenses should have a size and cost advantage over a FF equivalent lens and there has always been demand, just look at the requests all over the internet.
    Having moved from a FF system to Crop, you have to accept that their is size and weight penalty is most lenses when compared (FF vs DX).

    Its not just this one reason why Nikon are losing more and more cash and customers year after year.
    Nikon have been too slow to react to the changing market, its only a matter of time they are consumed like Kodak...... I have seen more innovation in other brands which is what Nikon should be doing considering they have been around a lot longer.
    They have rested on their brand name/image..

    Bye bye Nikon :D
     
    Willo likes this.
  37. Riz_Guru

    Riz_Guru

    Messages:
    2,896
    Name:
    Riz
    Edit My Images:
    No
    They have neglected their goals.. share holders and the staff who have been made redundant.
    Oh and their customers who were waiting for the DL!....... :D
     
  38. minnnt

    minnnt

    Messages:
    18,249
    Name:
    David
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    :rolleyes:

    With regards to lenses you numpty.
     
    JJ! likes this.
  39. Willo

    Willo

    Messages:
    633
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    Fast primes, especially wide (28mm or below eqv).
     
  40. Riz_Guru

    Riz_Guru

    Messages:
    2,896
    Name:
    Riz
    Edit My Images:
    No
    :D lol
     

Share This Page