Noise & Noise Reduction

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Hi

took my first pics at high ISO over the weekend (1600 at a wedding reception) as I needed to get something close to hand-holding shutter speeds in very low light.....

I've attached a couple of images that have been produced. Overall I am thoroughly impressed at the quality of the pictures that I could take in those circumstances, even though I can see the pics arent perfect, my previous compact wouldnt have stood a chance.

The pics were taken with my kit 18-55mm on an EOS450D, and so I am not sure as to make of the quality of these pics as taken from the camera.... I've since run a couple of pics through noise ninja (they are attached also) - but I just cant make my mind up whether there is an improvement or not.

just wanted to canvass other peoples views as this is yet another new area to me :)

Original Pics

IMG_0086.jpg

IMG_0095.jpg


Updated Pics
IMG_0086_filtered.jpg

IMG_0095_noiseremoved.jpg
 
I see a very clear reduction in noise in the second set of pictures. Look especially at areas where there is solid color (cross beams of the ceiling; wall; etc.) and you can see how much "smoother and creamier" the noise ninja treated versions are.

All in all, even with the noise, your original shots are pretty good.
 
I agree the NN treated images are an improvement but that's not what leaps out at me, for wedding photography or any kind of photography really, get rid of the on camera flash.
It does nothing for a photo except ravage it.
At least try and bounce the flash off a ceiling or a wall, or maybe invest in a lightsphere, that will assist in much better light dispersion and be away with those harsh/odd shadows. You really don't want them.

T.
 
Definite improvement with Noise Ninja. I assume by the grid that you're using the trial version, worth forking out for the full version IMO, especially if you planning on doing a lot of this type of photography.
 
I agree the NN treated images are an improvement but that's not what leaps out at me, for wedding photography or any kind of photography really, get rid of the on camera flash.
It does nothing for a photo except ravage it.
At least try and bounce the flash off a ceiling or a wall, or maybe invest in a lightsphere, that will assist in much better light dispersion and be away with those harsh/odd shadows. You really don't want them.

T.

I didnt use a flash for these pictures :thinking: or at least I dont recall that I did... was trying to be inconspicuous!!!
 
You did use flash for both shots according to the exif :)
 
NN is pretty good at clearing the noise up. I use it, I always profile the image before cleaning it though as this seems to make a better job of it. According to the Exif this was shot in normal programme mode, which I think is one of the automatic modes. The flash will pop up and fire whether you want it to or not if the 450d thinks you need it.
 
I didnt use a flash for these pictures :thinking: or at least I dont recall that I did... was trying to be inconspicuous!!!

This is a clip from the EXIF data that's attached to your photo
"# Metering Mode = pattern / multi-segment (5)
# Flash = Flash fired, compulsory flash mode
# Focal Length = 32/1 mm = 32 mm"

As jgs001 has pointed out, you were shooting in P mode, a mode where the camera tries to do all the thinking for you and when in dimly lit areas the flash will automatically pop up and fire, that explains the 'compulsory mode' part in the EXIF.

Just out of interest, was this a relatives or friends wedding?
 
Is it just me or did the OP put these pics up for C&C, or because they wanted to ask about Noise Ninja? :thinking:

The OP is asking about effects of Noise Ninja but there is a much more significant issue which I feel shouldn't be swept under the carpet, it is, after all, in the OP's benefit.

"What do ya think of my brand spankin new paint job on my car?"
"Never mind that for the mo mate, your backseats on fire!"
 
Noise Ninja is superb but it does need to be tweaked a little as not to remove too much fine detail from the shot. In your second example you see a huge difference in the wallpaper behind the young girl playing her instrument (you'll have to forgive me, I'm not up with my musical instruments, it could be a drum kit for all I know) this to me looks better and has a much cleaner look to it even though you've lost some fine detail as well as the noise.

Play around with a few options and you can get some fantastic results using NN. You can also download presets for different camera and their ISO settings.

Mark:)
 
The OP is asking about effects of Noise Ninja but there is a much more significant issue which I feel shouldn't be swept under the carpet, it is, after all, in the OP's benefit.

"What do ya think of my brand spankin new paint job on my car?"
"Never mind that for the mo mate, your backseats on fire!"

But are you assuming that the examples that the OP has posted are the best example of their work, or the best example for demonstrating noise reduction? The OP may be happy to receive you C & C and I may be totally wrong, but it could also be that you are taking the thread completely off topic. ;)
 
"

As jgs001 has pointed out, you were shooting in P mode, a mode where the camera tries to do all the thinking for you and when in dimly lit areas the flash will automatically pop up and fire, that explains the 'compulsory mode' part in the EXIF.

Just out of interest, was this a relatives or friends wedding?

Hi, in P mode the flash doesnt automatically fire, at least i dont think it does and you have to press the button to raise it before it fires....

i was a loose invite to this ere wedding, husband of a friend of the bride as it goes..... why do you ask??? i'm intrigued!!!
 
Noise Ninja is superb but it does need to be tweaked a little as not to remove too much fine detail from the shot. In your second example you see a huge difference in the wallpaper behind the young girl playing her instrument (you'll have to forgive me, I'm not up with my musical instruments, it could be a drum kit for all I know) this to me looks better and has a much cleaner look to it even though you've lost some fine detail as well as the noise.

Play around with a few options and you can get some fantastic results using NN. You can also download presets for different camera and their ISO settings.

Mark:)

i thought that too about getting rid of some pertinent details.....
 
But are you assuming that the examples that the OP has posted are the best example of their work, or the best example for demonstrating noise reduction? The OP may be happy to receive you C & C and I may be totally wrong, but it could also be that you are taking the thread completely off topic. ;)


yeah the pics werent really put on for C&C, the purpose was more to determine
a) what is the quality of these pictures like given they are taken at ISO 1600 - I personally was very impressed, but I'm new to this
b) is there a significant benefit in reducing the noise on these images- I cant see too much benefit, though acknowledge some of the comments about the improved appearance of the walls etc.

I wasnt looking for C&C on the overall composition (e.g. the big speaker in the way :shake:), and the fact that I only had an onboard flash available.... personally in such poor conditions I was pleased I could get what have turned out to be decent clarity shots that are well exposed and not blurry - but there again I am new to this and have low expectations....

if there are some basic things I Can do to improve shots in these conditions, such as use a seperate flash, then happy to hear them.... alas I have what I have at the moment and cant go spending hundreds on new lenses etc with wider apertures for these rather rare social events - i have my mid-level lenses available and will have to make do with what they can do and any associated limitations....
 
But are you assuming that the examples that the OP has posted are the best example of their work, or the best example for demonstrating noise reduction? The OP may be happy to receive you C & C and I may be totally wrong, but it could also be that you are taking the thread completely off topic. ;)

Point taken but never the less there are issues to discuss that the OP will benefit from. Whether I'm taking things off topic or not, I'm still trying to help. On camera flash has not helped rabaroo in anyway and in recent light, he had no knowledge that a flash had even fired.
Would your stance be drawing a blind eye to it as it's off topic?

Hi, in P mode the flash doesnt automatically fire, at least i dont think it does and you have to press the button to raise it before it fires....

There is evidently a flash used in your photo's. Yes siree, indeedily doodily.

i was a loose invite to this ere wedding, husband of a friend of the bride as it goes..... why do you ask??? i'm intrigued!!!

If your helpin out a mate or a relative out then fair play and good on yer. It's also a great opportunity to learn and experience the scenerio.

If you were a paid photographer I would have drawn attention to maybe practising a little more before jumping in at the deep end and offering your services for cash.

yeah the pics werent really put on for C&C, the purpose was more to determine
a) what is the quality of these pictures like given they are taken at ISO 1600 - I personally was very impressed, but I'm new to this

The noise reduction that you applied was a good job but the photo would be alot more noisey if there hadn't been any flash and a different level of NR would have been needed.
I think that you were trying a to use a higher ISO in order to be less conspicuous not realising the flash was indeed firing.

b) is there a significant benefit in reducing the noise on these images- I cant see too much benefit, though acknowledge some of the comments about the improved appearance of the walls etc.

Your right, the difference is there but it's marginal, It changes the whole look of the image as you introduced a rather harsh light source, which wasn't your intention.

I wasnt looking for C&C on the overall composition (e.g. the big speaker in the way :shake:), and the fact that I only had an onboard flash available.... personally in such poor conditions I was pleased I could get what have turned out to be decent clarity shots that are well exposed and not blurry - but there again I am new to this and have low expectations....

As above really mate.

We all try things and sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't, but it is important to understand why it didn't work and why you didn't get the result you were after. It's all a part of learning.

if there are some basic things I Can do to improve shots in these conditions, such as use a seperate flash, then happy to hear them.... alas I have what I have at the moment and cant go spending hundreds on new lenses etc with wider apertures for these rather rare social events - i have my mid-level lenses available and will have to make do with what they can do and any associated limitations....

First off, in low light situations, try AV mode, (aperture priority), dial in the widest aperure be it f/2.8 or .f4.5 and then select a high ISO. Try to use window light and any other availble light if possible.
When using available light at high ISO is still not adequate you could have a little go with a better flash and learn to bounce it off surfaces, also you could diffuse it wth a lightsphere
this would be the cheapest option, Canon flashes can be found second hand on ebay and sometimes nice folk from here sell them too. It would be possible to get yourself a flash and a lightsphere for less than a ton.
 
There is evidently a flash used in your photo's. Yes siree, indeedily doodily.

Ah ha - yes I do remember using a flash on certain pictures - I'd had a few drinks but its all coming back to me now - occasionally when I was preparing to take a shot the flash would flutter - so yes - definately flash used!!!

If your helpin out a mate or a relative out then fair play and good on yer. It's also a great opportunity to learn and experience the scenerio.

If you were a paid photographer I would have drawn attention to maybe practising a little more before jumping in at the deep end and offering your services for cash.

Strictly amateur - wouldnt offer or impose my photograpic services just yet :nuts:

The noise reduction that you applied was a good job but the photo would be alot more noisey if there hadn't been any flash and a different level of NR would have been needed.
I think that you were trying a to use a higher ISO in order to be less conspicuous not realising the flash was indeed firing.



Your right, the difference is there but it's marginal, It changes the whole look of the image as you introduced a rather harsh light source, which wasn't your intention.

Yes and no - I used ISO 1600 as it was the only ISO at which the camera was "hand-holdable" - the flash flashing wasnt really an issue, ideally it wouldnt have flashed so I could be less conspicuous, but the fact it did wasnt so much an issue......


First off, in low light situations, try AV mode, (aperture priority), dial in the widest aperure be it f/2.8 or .f4.5 and then select a high ISO. Try to use window light and any other availble light if possible.
When using available light at high ISO is still not adequate you could have a little go with a better flash and learn to bounce it off surfaces, also you could diffuse it wth a lightsphere
this would be the cheapest option, Canon flashes can be found second hand on ebay and sometimes nice folk from here sell them too. It would be possible to get yourself a flash and a lightsphere for less than a ton.

Good advice - thanks :)


Overall thanks for the advice... I dont think we've veered too far off topic and I've picked up a few good nuggets (like using Av in low light) - overall I think my EOS450 is pretty good at shooting even at 1600 which I am heartily encouraged about :-D and hopefully a bit of education for me will help for the future :)
 
Overall thanks for the advice... I dont think we've veered too far off topic and I've picked up a few good nuggets (like using Av in low light) - overall I think my EOS450 is pretty good at shooting even at 1600 which I am heartily encouraged about :-D and hopefully a bit of education for me will help for the future :)

No bother at all, the 450 is a great camera that has the facility to take fantastic photo's, it will do you proud, feed it some nice L glass :love: perhaps in the future and it will be friends for life.
 
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