Not as sharp as I'd like.... Something wrong or a new camera needed?

Messages
14
Name
James
Edit My Images
Yes
Hi all, I recently went to an air show and took some shots that I'm not very happy with.

I'm not sue if I'm doing something wrong or it's a limitation of my 450d which has taken some great photos in the past....

I was using my tamarin at full zoom (270) most of the time. The settings on TV at 1000, spot metering and focus and auto everything else.

There's just something not as sharp as it should be... My mate was using a point and shoot and got clearer pics :(

Any suggestions? Was gonna post a pic but it didn't work?
 
Hi James,

Are you using any post processing to sharpen the pics up at all?
Also, can you , if you can't post a picture, post the camera settings used typically for some of the pics?
I'm thinking shutter speed, aperture , exposure compensation etc?

I'm sure some of us on here can advise accordingly with a little more information.
Cheers
Dave
 
270mm seems a bit short for an airshow so as Andy says, most likely you were using it at it's longest (and softest) and wide open (also softest) but it's difficult for anyone to offer proper advice without seeing any photos. :)
Do you have a Flickr account? If so then host them there and copy the BBcode from the Large 1024X version into a post.
 
That was f5.6 1/1000 200mm but I feel it just lacks knife edge clarity... Am I expecting too much?
 
No postproduction processing. Haven't got time now days!

IMG_0482 by Utterchaos23, on Flickr
This is what I got at the red bull air race a few week before... Much clearer I think... And that was f6.3 1/500 238mm... Is it because I was too fast at the air show? Trying to stop the props...
 
I was using my tamarin at full zoom (270) most of the time. The settings on TV at 1000, spot metering and focus and auto everything else.

There's just something not as sharp as it should be... My mate was using a point and shoot and got clearer pics :(

Any suggestions? Was gonna post a pic but it didn't work?

For a start, forget spot metering, just stick with evaluative metering. Settings are important, but also the conditions you're taking the images in. Grey overcast poor light ain't going to give you cracking images, more very flat images lacking detail.

Camera settings, you can either set the aperture to f7-9 and let the camera set the shutter speed, adjusting the ISO to get the correct shutter speed for the type of aircraft or set the shutter speed and let the camera set the aperture. For prop aircraft to get some prop blur shutter speeds around the 1/250 - 400 sec work well depending on the aircraft, jets require a faster shutter speed 1/640 - 1250 sec. Helicopter are even harder to take pictures of if you want prop blur, due to the speed of the rotors.

So, remember, light is your friend, but remember to keep it behind you, AISERVO, single focus point, shutter or aperture priority and evaluative metering. Capture the action early, half press shutter to focus, waiting until the aircraft starts to 3/4 fill the frame, then start to take your images, smoothly panning as you go, remembering to continue the pan after your last shot, also forget taking a burst of images, rather take 2-3 images and just practice.
 
Like Pete said, that older image is no 'sharper' it was just shot in better light.
 
As said already above, looking at both full size on Flickr they seem pretty similar sharpness wise, but the second it better lit. I have noticed that the first was shot at iso 800 whereas the second is at 100, which might (I am not familiar with the camera body so don't know how it handles higher iso's) make a difference as regards overall image quality. Similarly if the first was cropped more than the second it might be a factor?
 
Last edited:
Neither is cropped I don't think, as they're the exact pixel resolution for that camera at full frame.

Just noise at ISO800, and the effects of shooting with a cheap lens almost wide open. A decent f2.8 lens would be 2 stops down at the aperture he's shooting at, and would be better wide open to begin with.

These lenses that try to cover everything from wide angle to telephoto are nearly always not very good, especially wide open.
 
Last edited:
Thanks View... So it's not the body? No need to upgrade yet...
It's not the body. It's almost never the body. It's almost always the lens. If you want to do more photography like this, you need a better lens.
 
Thanks all, any suggestions of a lens?

I don't want to spend a fortune and don't want to make this kind of photography my raison d'etre.... I also have a sigma 170-500 1:5-6.3 APO DG (?) maybe I should have used that?.. Always figured I needed to use a tripod with that though.
 
Last edited:
I also find the subject gives the apperance of a sharper picture, but, it's actually not. The first pic is of a dark plane against a grey sky, where the second is of a lighter plane against a brighter sky.

As for the Sigma, give it a try and see how it performs before purchasing anything else. You may find it performs better than your 18-270 as it is designed more for telephoto pictures and may be more suitable for your avaition needs.
 
Last edited:
The Sigma is much more suitable for aviation photography - it's no 'L' lens but should be reasonably sharp at 300-400mm. I wouldn't recommend using a tripod for aviation photography though, you need the freedom of movement for panning as well as pointing the entire ensemble up towards the sky.
 
I think the one you've posted as an example of a sharper image (the biplane) is actually much softer, it looks like slightly missed focus if you look at it the original size at 100%. The B-17 one is in line with what I'd expect to see from that kind of lens but it's underexposed and as others have said it's in "worse" light so it might look softer when viewed normally.

Trying the long Sigma seems like the sensible next step.
 
No, keep the IS on. If you're shooting props you need a shutter speed slower than 1/250 really so IS will come in handy at 500mm hand held [I find even a monopod restrictive for airshows personally].
 
PS I shot a couple of airshows with a 450D, it's up to the job, but I borrowed a mate's 100-400L which helped no end.

I also used to have a Sigma 135-400 which I used with my D300, but it needed shutting down to f10-11 to get decent results at the long end. Don't be afraid to close the aperture down and slow the shutter speed, your percentage of keepers will drop, but they'll be sharper and have a nice prop blur.
 
Thanks all, any suggestions of a lens?

I don't want to spend a fortune and don't want to make this kind of photography my raison d'etre.... I also have a sigma 170-500 1:5-6.3 APO DG (?) maybe I should have used that?.. Always figured I needed to use a tripod with that though.

I have the same lens, yes, it's a big heavy beast so you need to make sure your hand holding technique is up to scratch.

As its a 6.3 lens, the aperture will not open beyond 6.3. Has a reputation for being soft at max. zoom, try backing very slightly off to about 480mm and not a good performer in poor light

Thought of most of the other contributions to this thread except to state in my opinion when shooting jets the faster the better. Was using 1/2000 and 1/2500 aperture 6.3 for jets, 1/400 - 500 f11 prop planes 1/160 - 250 f16 for helicopters. Weather started hazy and progressivy duller untril by the time the Red Arrows did the final display of the afternoon was forced to use ISO 800

Suggest you get it out and try some practice regards HKW
 
Last edited:
Thanks Kenneth,

Will do, shame there're few and far between... maybe a trip to the airport without special planes to practice!

I usually leave the cam on AV as I do mainly objects and people and do like a soft backdrop. I switched to TV when I decided that speed was the most important factor... should I be using Manual? It'll take me ages to dial in all the settings :cautious: ....
 
I use both 500 & 550d and mainly shoot action photography.I have found AV does not produce a high enough shutter speed for fast moving subjects such as jets and small birds while Tv at any reasonable shutter speed leads to a horribly underexposed image.

all I can say is try M and see. I have found it a help for action photography. The three things you will want to change regularly are shutter speed which the camera defaults to and is changed by the command dial, aperture which is selected by the AV button to the camera's rear lastly ISO which has a dedicated button on the top.

The settings mentioned are only a guide. Watch the exposure meter to confirm chosen settings are going to produce a correctly exposed image

As mentioned above, single point AF and the ability to change it (one point to another) for moving subjects

three years ago I was where you are now at. Went to the airshow for the first time. No homework, shot everything with the same settings using auto & semi auto modes. Lots of blurry jet shots. Better shots of prop planes, but this included the props themselves making the aircraft look like it was out of fuel & about to fall out of the sky
 
Last edited:
I use both 500 & 550d and mainly shoot action photography.I have found AV does not produce a high enough shutter speed for fast moving subjects such as jets and small birds while Tv at any reasonable shutter speed leads to a horribly underexposed image.

all I can say is try M and see. I have found it a help for action photography. The three things you will want to change regularly are shutter speed which the camera defaults to and is changed by the command dial, aperture which is selected by the AV button to the camera's rear lastly ISO which has a dedicated button on the top.

The settings mentioned are only a guide. Watch the exposure meter to confirm chosen settings are going to produce a correctly exposed image...

That's the most convoluted post around a simple concept I have ever read.
At the same ISO, your wide open lens in AV will give you as fast a shutter speed as it can. And it'll be exactly the same shutter speed you'll be able to use in TV without the camera telling you it can't open up any more.

The only way of getting properly exposed shots and raising the shutter speed is to raise the ISO. The exposure triangle doesn't alter if you use AV, TV, M or P. They're all just a means to the same end.
 
disagree re "the only way to getting properly exposed shots & raising the shutter speed is to raise the ISO"

Downside of simply cranking up the ISO with the cameras the OP and myself are using is degredation of the image due to noise. Or rather certain cameras are better in handling higher ISO before notable noise. These usually are more expensive

Pity I deleted all the substandard bird shots taken as per advice "shoot in Av with aperture as wide as possible to raise the shutter speed and narrow the DOF" This site does go into detail regarding loss opf IQ due to high ISO. I try and keep ISO as low as possible and only raise it as a last resort
 
Last edited:
disagree re "the only way to getting properly exposed shots & raising the shutter speed is to raise the ISO"

Downside of simply cranking up the ISO with the cameras the OP and myself are using is degredation of the image due to noise. Or rather certain cameras are better in handling higher ISO before notable noise. These usually are more expensive

Pity I deleted all the substandard bird shots taken as per advice "shoot in Av with aperture as wide as possible to raise the shutter speed and narrow the DOF" This site does go into detail regarding loss opf IQ due to high ISO. I try and keep ISO as low as possible and only raise it as a last resort
Well you're free to 'disagree' but the exposure triangle is scientifically tested. :D
 
Surely the exposure triangle is just that.

three variables, to be balanced to create the result you are after. (Ignoring a fourth variable, that being the light you can get onto the subject).

If 2 of these are fixed, ie shutter to control movement, and aperture for DOF / sharpness, the only thing you can change to get the desired exposure is ISO. Most of my shots from Farnborough air show were taken in M, with shutter and aperture set, and Auto ISO taking care of the third variable. Obviously keeping an eye on this to ensure it was within (my) tolerance.

In the same way for a landscape.... priority might be for low ISO, and small aperture (so A mode). Using a tripod the camera can be left to ascertain shutter. As long as it stays within tolerances all is fine.

Or panning a race car round a bend in bright daylight, you want slow shutter speed (S mode), ISO and aperture will have to be low / small due to the sun, so you fix ISO at 100, and aperture works itself out.

There is no best way to do any one thing, for everyone. You need to find the way that suits you.

And unfortunately, once you max out 2 of the variables, you either need to accept what happens to the third, or add to (or reduce) the light. (Or use different equipment).

That's the way I understand it anyway. :)
 
I'm confused by some of the the above comments.
Ken, it sounds as if you're trying to shoot in difficult conditions but with equipment that isn't up to the task, such as kit lenses or similar.
 
to the OP, @UtterChaos the flying fortress (i think) looks fine to me, but the subject is so dark it's hard to appreciate it.
You're looking for clarity in a much more limited dynamic range. bright subject in great light is always going to look better.
 
As perceived sharpness is related to local contrast, you've chosen the wrong weather.
 
Know what st599 means but, it is not so much choosing the wrong weather, as taking what you are given.

It is the way of most outdoor photography. Given those conditions the first shot you posted is not at all bad.

As is often said on here, it is all about the light.

Dave
 
I've always found on telephotos that F6.3 tends to be sharper than F5.6. That 1/3rd stop is worth the difference. 1/3 stop on iso isn't going to make much difference.
But yes, as said, light is the pain. I've found that even if it's similar light levels, a white cloudy day photographs better than a grey one. PP can help, though.
 
Just another tip which I didn't notice above is don't use mono pod & high shutter speed with VC. I did and ended up with a double edge. Get the big Tamron, its not too bad and atm a good price.
 
Back
Top