Not impressed with the cannon 50mm prime 1.4

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McNyat

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I seem to be having problems with my aperture and shutter speed settings. The sutter speed seems to be very slow.

In av setting it gives blurrerd shots regularly and all shots are definitly not tac sharp.
I set it to tv and when i set the sutter speed to less than 1/50 the aperture flashes.

I'm fairlly new to slr photography and have the camera only a few short months with not alot of time to use it yet. I will get more time later this evening to give you more precise settings which might help but just wanted to get the ball rolling to see if any of you have experienced similar?:shrug:

I thought about resetting the camera to the original settings but was afraid of loosing what I have become used to.:thinking::bonk:

All help greatly appreciated
 
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Hi, welcome to SLR photography! I bought a 550D today, but have been using Canon SLRs for years.

SLRs are generally a lot slower than people percieve. In a room that looks well lit, say your average living room at night with a light on, you SLR views this scene as quite dark.

As a rough rule of thumb you shouldn't go hand held on if the time is slower than the focal length. i.e. 1/60th a sec at 60mm or 1/200th sec @ 200mm.

I remember someone grabbing my SLR at a party once, and treating it like a point and shoot, but without flash. All of the exposures were 2", and the person was like "It's really really blurry, I always thought you had a really good camera!"

You could try upping the ISO to speed up the exposure?

The flash will pop up if you're on the green square setting, but it will stay down on 'P'

Avoid using the extreme ends of the spectrum on your Av settings, the sweet spots are in the middle.

Good luck!
 
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McNyat said:
In av setting it gives blurrerd shots regularly and all shots are definitly not tac sharp.
I set it to tv and when i set the sutter speed to less than 1/50 the aperture flashes.
Click to expand...
OK, this is the nub of it. Basically, there isn't enough light.

In AV mode, you're choosing the aperture and the camera is deciding the shutter speed. But when there's not much light, the shutter speed will be slow and you'll get blur caused by camera shake.

In TV mode, you're choosing the shutter speed and the camera is deciding the aperture. But when there's not much light, if you set too fast a shutter speed then the camera can't open up the aperture wide enough to expose the picture correctly, so you get the flashing display.

Choices?
* Use flash - though be careful, because how the flash works depends on which exposure mode you're using.
* Increase your ISO setting.
* Use a tripod or other stabilising device.
* Buy a faster lens or one with Image Stabilisation.
* Switch some lights on.
 
Hi Li/Stewart,
Thanks for your replies.

If I were to use the pop up flash (or better still an external flass mounted on the hot shoe) I assume that this would greatly reduce the shutter speed?

I guess having read the reviews saying that the 550D was great in low low light situations I might have expected slightly better, although I admit I'm still a relative beginner so my current thoughts are more than likely premature.

What would you suggest would be a reasonable ISO saying I was shooting in a normally lit room?
 
McNyat said:
Hi Li/Stewart,
Thanks for your replies.

If I were to use the pop up flash (or better still an external flass mounted on the hot shoe) I assume that this would greatly reduce the shutter speed?

I guess having read the reviews saying that the 550D was great in low low light situations I might have expected slightly better, although I admit I'm still a relative beginner so my current thoughts are more than likely premature.

What would you suggest would be a reasonable ISO saying I was shooting in a normally lit room?
Click to expand...

You have four ways to adjust the exposure (if you exclude the use of filters)....
1. adjust the shutter speed;
2. adjust the aperture;
3. adjust the ISO;
4. adjust the lighting (including, but not limited to, using flash)

If your shutter speeds are too slow for sharp images then you need to adjust one or more of the other variables. If your subject is static you could also opt for a tripod as an alternative.

It's going to be tricky to give concrete advice without knowing exactly the lighting conditions, the subject matter, your creative goals, limitations of your gear and so on. You might find you need 1600 ISO, maybe more, maybe less. It all depends. My general starting point for a wedding reception or similar in the evening would be 1600 ISO, f/2.8, 1/60 to 1/100 and bounced flash from a 580EX, but that might need varying further as conditions and desires dictate.

By the sound of things I imagine you are struggling (a) because you may have a slow zoom lens that does not let in much light, and is probably limiting you to apertures between f/3.5 to f/5.6; (b) you are not raising the ISO to anywhere near what you need for the conditions and constraints of the lens. Which lens do you have?
 
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Hi Tim,
My oldest girl, Emma has her first school Christmas panto this Thursday night and I would really like some advice on what settings to use. It will be in the fairly small assembly hall and will probably be fairly dimly lit.

As I'm still very much learning I'm not capable of shooting manual yet. Would you reccomend shooting in either AV or TV or even another setting?

I have a Cannon EF-S 55-250 1:4-5.6 lens and the 18-55 kit lens with no additional flash other than the built in one.
 
I would assume that for a school panto the lighting will be pretty rudimentary, and will not be changing every couple of minutes. On that basis you may well find shooting with manual exposure to be the best approach, because once set correctly it should remain correct throughout the performance. It might take you a few stabs to get the right exposure dialed in, but once set you will be able to focus your attention more on the timing and composition of the shots. If the light levels are uneven, or constantly being adjusted, then manual exposure will not work well for you and you will probably be better off letting autoexposure do most of the work for you.

If you use an autoexposure mode then it is possible that the exposure will bounce around a bit depending on the composition and content of the scene - lots of dark stuff in the scene will lead the camera to overexpose while lots of bright/light/white stuff will have the opposite effect. You can try to ride the exposure compensation control to cope, or just let the camera do its thing and hope for the best.

Your lenses are slow, I'm afraid, and if the light levels are low as you suggest you are going to have to crank up the ISO in order to achieve adequate shutter speeds. I imagine (and hope) that 1600 ISO will be enough. If you do choose to shoot with autoexposure then I think your best bet would be to shoot with the lens wide open to grab as much light as you can. The shutter speed will have to end up wherever it may. If it is too slow and you get blurry shots then you will have to go to 3200 ISO. Never mind noise. You can do more with a noisy shot than a blurry one.

If you do shoot manual then you need to be aware that your max aperture will change as you zoom, which could throw off your exposure. Your distance from the stage is quite important too. The shorter lens will be easier to hold steady at the wider angles, but the long lens will deliver f/4 at 55mm whereas the short lens will be at f/5.6 at that point, losing you a stop of light which you can ill afford. I don't know the ins and outs of the performance of each lens but I'd guess your best results will come from using the longer lens at around the 55mm mark, but you'll have to position yourself wisely to make that focal length work for you. At least that will give you the option for some nice close ups, maybe.

I'm afraid so much depends on just how brightly lit the stage is, how fast the performers are moving and your own skills at shooting with a steady hand and smooth action. A tripod may help, but probably won't be allowed for safety reasons. The choice of lens will be dictated ultimately by where you are positioned relative to the stage. Will you have freedom to choose? Will you have a good sight line? Unfortunately it is impossible to tell you what settings will work best because there are too many variables. I think on balance the best I can suggest as a starter is......

Evaluative metering, Av mode, aperture wide open, 1600 ISO, no flash. Monitor shutter speeds and adjust ISO if you have to. If you shoot to JPEG then you will need to set your white balance correctly before you start shooting. If you shoot raw then you will be able to adjust white balance after the shoot. If the stage lights are tungsten then I would recommend using the tungsten preset. If the lights are of some other type then either a custom white balance or auto will probably be the best options. Shooting raw will definitely give you an escape route if it all goes a bit pear shaped.

If you're desperate for light then flash may be your only option, but it will probably produce unattractive results and spoil any creative intent behind the design of the stage lighting. At 1600 ISO the builtin flash will have a reach of up to around 8m-12m at f/5.6, so in theory it could give a kick to the light, but it is an option I personally would try to avoid. At the end of the day you will have to evaluate the results while you are there and do the best you can.

Maybe others can offer some more useful advice. Either way, good luck. :thumbs:
 
First class Tim....... first class :clap:
I had maybe hoped for a few small pointers but your last post has gone way beyond that.

Many thanks, I really appreciate you (and also the others earlier) taking the time to pass on this type of really valuable guidance. :thumbs:

Hopefully I can post some nice pics to say thanks again
 
I look forward to the results.

By the way, if you do end up using flash while shooting in Av mode you need to understand that the camera will not speed up the shutter, so if slow shutter speeds are a problem you would be better off shooting in P mode, which will force the shutter speed to be not less than 1/60. In fact, thinking about the whole situation further, you might be better off shooting in P mode from the outset. It will optimise the balance between shutter speed and aperture as best it can for the conditions, but you will still need to set the ISO sufficiently high to give the camera a chance to use acceptable settings.

EDiT : you may also find this thread interesting - http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=281131
 
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One from Emma's BIG acting debut on Thursday night.

We made sure to get there early to sit near the front as suggested although the stage was fairly low (approx 2feet tall) and the choir were sitting between us and the stage which blocked alot of the shots.

All of the above advice was really helpful and saved alot of time on the night. Lighting was extremely low so I had switched between ISO settings of 3200 & 6400 to keep the shutter speed as guick as i colud as ther was alot of movement on stage so there is unfortunately some noise.

This was one of the best so I have PP'd it a little. I know the pose isny great but the play was split onto a number of differnt parts for each class and as you can imagine the P1 section was very short. I may get a chance to post another over the weekend.

All thoughts and comments welcome.


Emma_panto_smaller1.jpg
 
Well, from a composition point of view a purist would say it's a bit busy! But obviously that's not something you have a lot of control over. (You might want to crop the right hand side to remove that child in the red jumper though.)

However, from a technical point of view I'd say it's a success. You've got a well focussed and well exposed picture with no camera shake, in what must have been very challenging conditions.

Result.
 
That's a nice picture, and I'm sure one that you will cherish.

I'm surprised you went as high as 6400 ISO in order to achieve a shutter speed of 1/400. I would think that 3200 and 1/200 or, at a pinch, 1600 and 1/100 might have worked for you, with artful timing and a little luck, but so long as you got the shots and you're happy that's what really counts.

I'm intrigued by the lighting. EXIF says that no flash was used, which I'm sure is true, yet Emma looks so much better lit than the children further away from the camera. Was the stage lighting really so uneven? If so that's a really tough gig to deal with, so all credit to you for coming away with shots you are pleased with.

As for the choir in the way, that's a b****r. An option might have been to stand behind the audience and shoot over their heads with a longer lens, but then you would have been at f/5.6, so not at all ideal. Sometimes you just have to play the hand you are dealt.

Here's one of my panto shots from last weekend. This was shot from behind the audience and I cheated big time by blasting the stage with some studio flash so I could get my shots looking crisp....

20101211_220932_7004_LR.jpg


This was at 73mm, 1/160, f/8, 100 ISO. :)
 
Thanks guys,

The stage was fiarly evenly lit. I have just used photoshop to create the lighting effect on the PP'd version. I have attached the original to show the difference.



emma_original.jpg



I know the girl in the red Jumper looks out of place but I thought the crop was a little tight when I tried it (she is also our youngest daughter, Ciara btw :lol:, so there is a little sort of an appeal for us in keeping her there).

With regards to the lighting and shooting from the back of the hall, I would have been about 25-30 yards from the stage. As well as this, keeping Ciara entertained was a major challenge during the evening so we thought being near to the front would be best, (good call as I turned out). Also, thanks for the pointer about the tweak to the settings...... I'm learning.....slowly ;)

One last thing, I have tried to download the 'exif' thing with no success. Can you recommend a good site?
 
Evening all,

I'm back with a similar type query.

I have just treated mtself to the Cannon 50mm prime 1.4 lens. Following on from my initial posts above and some experimanting in between times, I had thought that this lens would have much better low light performance, but alas I just feel a tad disappointed. I know I'm no expert so I thought I'd 'pick the brains' of some of you nice lot.
I cant help but feel that there may be a sensor problem with my camera:thinking:

I have took a few pics in my house with all lights on and the best shutter speed I can get when shooting AV is 1/20 at f8 ISO 1600.

Maybe it's ok to increase the ISO to3200? but I think I would prefer to avoid this.

Should all shots indoors be taken with a flashgun maybe?

Most of the pics I like to take are of my 2 girls and as you can imagine they are full of life and so fast shutter speeds are critical.

Tripods for these shots aren't really an option either.

Any help apprecaited please:bang:

Sorry forgot to mention that I'v taken pics with a wider apperture which I know will give faster shutter speeds but the DOF is very shallow.
 
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you are shooting at f/8. This is a small aperture for indoor shooting. Whatever lens you had before will give exactly the same shutter speed at f/8 as your fast 50mm will.

Shoot between f/1.4 and f/2 and your shutter speed will be vastly faster.

At f/2, the shutter speed would be 1/320 to get the same exposure as f/8 1/20. Narrow DoF is unavoidable for low light non flash shooting. The only way to get fast shutter speeds is by opening the aperture or providing light with flash.
These primes are only good in low light because of their wide apertures. That's what they are about ;)


Narrow DoF is often a good thing, letting you blur backgrounds for portraits with impact.
 
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You are shooting at f/8, so having a 1.4 lens will make no difference.

Drop the aperture to maybe f/2.8 to start and set the ISO to 1600, and see how that is. If no good, drop the aperture to f/1.8 and try again, then to f/1.4. If still no good, up the ISO more

Even with my D700 and a f/1.4 lens, indoors, Im still using ISO 3200 sometimes to get a handholdable shutter speed.
 
McNyat said:
Sorry forgot to mention that I'v taken pics with a wider apperture which I know will give faster shutter speeds but the DOF is very shallow.
Click to expand...

Thats the trade off sadly. The only way to counter that is to fit floodlights in your house, or buy an external flash gun and learn the merits of bounce flash.
 
Thanks gentlemen,

I guess I needed re-assurance that it's not uncommon to have to raise the ISO for this situation :)

Having said that I have tried my 55-250 lens at 55mm with f4 and its giving sharper pics than the 50mm 1.4 at various appertures?????:thinking:

Not sure what to do now? Any suggestions?:shrug:
 
Post some examples of the 50mm at various apertures and the same for the other lens so we can see what's going on.
 
TCR4x4 said:
Post some examples of the 50mm at various apertures and the same for the other lens so we can see what's going on.
Click to expand...

+1

Remember depth of field is tiny at f1.4, especially for closeups, so the image may well mostly look out of focus!
 
The 55-250 has IS as well.
So you might be shooting at shutter speeds to slow for the 50mm prime that the IS on the 55-250 makes possible (if you are shooting at the same aperture of course. If you open the 50mm wider, it'll give faster shutter speeds).
 
Hi all,

Please view the following images


A) 55-250 at 55mm 1/8 f-4 (Auto focus on the orange part of the logo)

55mm_at_f-4_8th_sec.jpg




B) 50mm prime 1/8 f-4 (Auto focus on the orange part of the logo)


50mm_prime_at_f-4_8th_sec.jpg


To me the 55-250 lens is giving a slightly sharper image that the prime. This surprises me given what I've read about the prime. I know that it has the advantage of the shallower DOF but this is not what I thought it would be either as the pic below shows. I have auto focused on the orange part of the logo but the main area in focus is a tad closer to me than this. Maybe it's just me and I know that ideally I should be using manual focus but with it being so shallow I feel that auto would be the best way to go. Given the cost of this lens I feel that it should be much better.



C) 50mm prime 1/8 f-1.4

shallow_dof.jpg



Do any of you have any suggestions on how to improve on this, or have any of you had similar experiences?
 
We can't judge sharpness on those images. They're tiny.
From the tiny size, it does look like the focus is in different places on the two images.

What focus point did you use? You might have front/back focussing issues, which can be calibrated free in warranty.
 
Yes they were. I know that its hard to tell with the pics here but the difference is really there and not in my imagination.

Both the sharpness of the lens and the autofocus are very disappointing :'(
 
Hand held at 1/8 of a second? The sharpness is never going to be good handheld at that speed. The 55-250 looks sharper because of it's IS.

If it's missing the focus, get it of to canon for calibration.
 
You can't compare lenses handheld at 1/8, and certainly not at f/1.4. By the tine you've pressed the button and the camera has moved a few mm in the process, your focal plane has moved a huge distance.

You need good light, a tripod and a remote shutter release to see if there is an issue.
 
as said above 1/8 is too long a shutter speed for handheld unless you have IS

your 55-250 has IS which stabilises the image

in this case the lens is not at fault, you just haven't learnt to get the best out of it yet, keep asking questions and people will keep helping you to understand more
 
Me again gentlemen....... Humble pie time (on one front anyway).

I have taken some pics using a tripod and there is very little difference between the 2 lens' with increased sharpness on both fronts.

However, there is definitly a problem with the auto focus pont/distance. You mentioned about callibration Adam, I got the lens at Jessops and there is a 30 day returns policy which it is still within. I feel at this point like taking it in there again to see what they think or to compare it to another (sounds obvious I know, but wanted to see what some of you thought before I potentially made a fool of myself). What do you think?

Just one other query (similar to what I was asking at the weekend), what is my best bet to achieve quicker shutter speeds for shooting handheld:
external flash
increased ISO (even if it means 3200 or 6400)
Obviously larger apparture (if the lens is callibrated correctly)

Sorry if this seems to be me repeating myself but once I get it I wont forget, (i promise :nono:)

Thanks for all the help
 
McNyat said:
However, there is definitly a problem with the auto focus pont/distance. You mentioned about callibration Adam, I got the lens at Jessops and there is a 30 day returns policy which it is still within. I feel at this point like taking it in there again to see what they think or to compare it to another (sounds obvious I know, but wanted to see what some of you thought before I potentially made a fool of myself). What do you think?
Click to expand...

Have a read of this article. It will help explain the issues regarding calibration....

http://www.lensrentals.com/news/2008.12.22/this-lens-is-soft-and-other-myths
 
Thanks for this Tim.

There's still something bothering me about my 550D.

I have taken the 350D from work and set them both up at AV with the standard kit lens at similar focal lengths and appertures with ISO 1600 and here's what I've found.

The 350D has shutter speed of 1/8 sec at f5.6 & 55mm compared to 1/5sec on my 550D.

The 350D has shutter speed of 1/20 sec at f3.5 & 18mm compared to 1/13sec on my 550D.

Is there a problem with the sensor on my camera (given that the 350D is much older and that the reviews I read prior to buying all complimented it's low light shooting capacity)?

Maybe I should take it back to Jessops as it is only about 4-5 months old?

Help and advice would be appreciated.
 
also....

- same lighting;
- same scene/composition/framing;
- double check that exposure compensation has not been set.

Also, don't simply compare the settings the camera selects. Also check the resulting images. Are they equally bright? Sized to fit/fill the screen (i.e. not pixel peeping at 100%) do they look equally good?
 
Yes, I seem to have followed all of the above. I have posted two pics from the two different cameras below

The top one is from the 350D and suffers more from noise than the 550D pic below. The bottom pic is slightly brighter which may be down to the slightly longer shutter speed?

However, my issue is around the shutter speeds that I can use as I take alot of pics of my 3yr and 5 yr old daughters who like to move around alot (as you do when you are 3 and 5). I really want to shoot at the quickest setting that I can so that my pics are as sharp as possible and not blurry, as too many currently are :bang: :bang: :bang:


350_test.jpg


test3.JPG



What sould I do now?????
 
McNyat said:
Evening all,

I'm back with a similar type query.

I have just treated mtself to the Cannon 50mm prime 1.4 lens. Following on from my initial posts above and some experimanting in between times, I had thought that this lens would have much better low light performance, but alas I just feel a tad disappointed. I know I'm no expert so I thought I'd 'pick the brains' of some of you nice lot.
I cant help but feel that there may be a sensor problem with my camera:thinking:

I have took a few pics in my house with all lights on and the best shutter speed I can get when shooting AV is 1/20 at f8 ISO 1600.

Maybe it's ok to increase the ISO to3200? but I think I would prefer to avoid this.

Should all shots indoors be taken with a flashgun maybe?

Most of the pics I like to take are of my 2 girls and as you can imagine they are full of life and so fast shutter speeds are critical.

Tripods for these shots aren't really an option either.

Any help apprecaited please:bang:

Sorry forgot to mention that I'v taken pics with a wider apperture which I know will give faster shutter speeds but the DOF is very shallow.
Click to expand...

Why buy a f/1.4 prime and shoot it at f/8 then complain about shutter speed?? From all your posts you seem very quick to blame the tools when it sounds more like user error. It's important to learn the aperture/shutter speed/ISO relationship and take lots of pictures to get a feel for different depth of field for different apertures. It can be frustrating to not get the results you want but spend time to learn to use it and the results are worth it. Lots of good info on this forum and on the web.

Alternatively, if you want deep DOF where everything in the frame is in focus get a high quality compact like Canon G12. With a much smaller sensor where the DOF is deeper and it's dead easy to get sharp shots. I was pretty impressed with my mate's G11. Although obviously you'd have to use flash for low light photography.

With regards to difference in two cameras, as suggested, check metering mode and check EV compensation is not set. If you don't know how to do this try resetting all the settings in menu.
 
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McNyat said:
Yes, I seem to have followed all of the above. I have posted two pics from the two different cameras below

The top one is from the 350D and suffers more from noise than the 550D pic below. The bottom pic is slightly brighter which may be down to the slightly longer shutter speed?
Click to expand...

The metering mode for both, according to my exif viewer, is Pattern.

The 550D has more points when considering metering so it may well be compensating more for the dark area to get a more even exposure as the camera 'thinks' it needs to be a bit brighter to bring out the details in charger (something it clearly does)


If you really want to compare because you are adamant something else is wrong with camera or lens you will need to go int manual mode
 
You should double check that the dynamic range optimiser things is off on the 550D as well.

As per two posters back though, I think you're missing the point a little bit here re: shooting moving children indoors. An f1.4 lens @ f1.4 on a crop camera will just about enable you to take a sharp shot of something that's stationary at ISO 1600 in a dark, but artificially lit room (you'll need a shutter speed of 1/80 generally). For moving subjects you are going to need a much quicker shutter speed, so we're talking at least ISO 3200, more likely ISO 6400. Or a flash with a high sync speed.
 
Just to add some perspective. In my parents in law front room, I struggled to get a shutter speed of 1/30 at Iso 3200 at f/1.8 on my D700. To my eyes it didn't look that dark, but in reality it was. I think you are expecting too much, and from every shot you have posted thus far, the focus has been on something very dark which will confuse the meter in the camera and give a slower speed to get the right exposure for the dark thing you are metering from.
Nothing in any of the images so far have indicated any problems with the lenses or the camera, just the meat behind it. You need to learn what the camera is doing and why and how to adapt it to do what you want it to do.
 
The other thing to bear in mind is the depth of field at f1.4. On a face you can have the tip of the nose in focus, but the eyes out. Focus on the eyes and the tip of the nose and ears will be out of focus.

i.e this is at f2.5 at f1.4 I barely had the feet in focus
120516637.jpg


But it's all about the light. Add more light.
 
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