Old images taken with a compact being used without permission (Copyright Again Sorry)

The BJP articles have mentioned trebling the rate, so that's the new precedent :D
 
DemiLion said:
It's the Daily Mail - you'll get offered standard rates and that's it.
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If you don't get what you invoice then you keep chasing the outstanding amount.

I personally would ask a lawyer to intervene immediately as they will need to ask the paper where they got the image and to evidence how often it has been used.

It could be that they used it a lot in which case you multiply accordingly.

Plus, they may have syndicated it to other media and made money from it - which you're entitled to (+) from breach of contract.

Chances are the image is also credited to another photographer. Or perhaps a stock agency. The lawyer should chase them too to reclaim any income from these avenues too.

If you know what you're doing then you could go for it yourself, bu from the posts above I'm guessing not, in which case let a Pro lawyer act on your behalf.
They should give you a free consult and if it goes to court (and you win) then they pay for the lawyer's fees too :)
 
callumw said:
If you don't get what you invoice then you keep chasing the outstanding amount.

I personally would ask a lawyer to intervene immediately as they will need to ask the paper where they got the image and to evidence how often it has been used.

It could be that they used it a lot in which case you multiply accordingly.

Plus, they may have syndicated it to other media and made money from it - which you're entitled to (+) from breach of contract.

Chances are the image is also credited to another photographer. Or perhaps a stock agency. The lawyer should chase them too to reclaim any income from these avenues too.

If you know what you're doing then you could go for it yourself, bu from the posts above I'm guessing not, in which case let a Pro lawyer act on your behalf.
They should give you a free consult and if it goes to court (and you win) then they pay for the lawyer's fees too :)
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Have you actually worked out the mathematics of that course of action or are you just suggesting the above because you haven't any idea what you are talking about?
 
I would guess he's a lawyer!

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I've not contacted them yet. I don't want to go flying in with invoices etc before I know exactly how I stand. This is all new territory for me and I am just being cautious I guess.

Thanks for all the advice im trying to absorb it :LOL:

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Ed Sutton said:
£40?

http://www.bjp-online.com/british-j...43264/daily-mail-accused-lifting-flickr-image
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I know Steve Leachman, (and he's L'Cham on here) and he's invoiced the mail for unauthorised use and has heard bugger all back. The invoice stated they have 30 days to pay, so he's just counting down the clock - he has already been advised by a copyright lawyer on how to proceed.

It appears (and this is only from the articles I've read recently and is certainly not an accusation or allegation on my behalf) that the Mail are absolutely notorious for nicking images and then only offering payment if and when the photographer spots it.

Disgusting business practice if true.
 
As it happens I am a lawyer (in Scotland, so the courts are different, but the law on this is the same).

My advice, for what it may be worth is -

1. Absolutely ensure it is your image and that you can in due course prove it is your image. Eg you have the original file with full exif info etc. If you can't do this, proceed no further.

2. Save and also print off copies of any website or other material where your image appears (if there's a dispute, the webpage concerned will disappear quickly and you'll regret it if you didn't preserve a copy).

3. Write or email the person who has published the image, explain it is yours, that you have given no permission for it to be used and that as the author you are entitled to compensation for it's use and ask for their proposals.

4. They are likely to ignore that letter or email, but you'll keep a copy and later, if need be look very reasonable in any subsequent action. Next send a recorded delivery letter telling them you have taken advice and giving them a set time (I'd suggest 14 days to reply, or else you will be forced to take formal steps).

5. There is now a chance you'll get into a negotiation. If not, I'd send another recorded delivery telling them you intend to raise an action in your local court and say how much you are going to claim.

6. Now you may have to decide on whether to go through with the raising of an action or not. If the amount in Scotland is below £3,000 you can raise a small claim with very little risk and the local clerk of court will help you to complete the forms. I think the position in England is broadly similar but the clerk of court can advise. I'd be hesitant about instructing a lawyer unless you think it is a very large claim. Your best chance of a settlement may be if you are pursuing it yourself cheaply and they will have to instruct solicitors expensively to defend it. Economics are likely to make them want to settle. Be aware that any litigation can be time consuming and carry some risk. The threat of it though carries no risk.

7. How to quantify your claim. It is up to you, but your opponent will take you more seriously if you have a coherent basis for it. You could use stock sites rates as a guide, but these are pretty arbitrary. I'd strongly recommend that you use the guidance contained in the NUJ website -
http://www.londonfreelance.org/feesguide/index.php?section=Photography
The figures here are sensible and in my experience likely to be very persuasive to a court.

8. Don't get too ambitious!! If you get offered something from a user, seriously consider it even if you think it only represents half of what you think you should get. Life is short and a small amount of money quickly may be worth pocketing and being treated as success.

Good luck.

Alistair
 
Nick T said:
I know Steve Leachman, (and he's L'Cham on here) and he's invoiced the mail for unauthorised use and has heard bugger all back. The invoice stated they have 30 days to pay, so he's just counting down the clock - he has already been advised by a copyright lawyer on how to proceed.

It appears (and this is only from the articles I've read recently and is certainly not an accusation or allegation on my behalf) that the Mail are absolutely notorious for nicking images and then only offering payment if and when the photographer spots it.

Disgusting business practice if true.
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Howdy :wave:
 
AlistairW said:
...you can raise a small claim with very little risk...
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There's quite a lot I'd like to write, but I don't want to provide ammo or a shield for the other side. However, it's my understanding that the Small Claims track is considered inappropriate for copyright disputes.
 
No problem in Scotland - in fact it would certainly be the appropriate forum. This may be different down south, but I'd be fairly surprised (unless you are talking about interdict/injunction). Again, if you get that far you can check with the local court staff.
 
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Sorry for the late reply. At the moment I've not as I've had so many other things going on, so I haven't had time to get round to it.
 
Right, I've finally got some time to send off an invoice for this.

Do I need to send a Template invoice or will just an email asking for and specific amount be adequate? If I need a template does anyone have a sample I could see please?

All new to me but I want to go in with the right approach.

Thanks

Simon
 
type up a heading INVOICE - put all your contract details on it and list what you are charging for - you MUST have bought goods before and been sent an invoice! That's how you do it.

Then attach that to an email.
 
Good luck with it - keep us posted - hope you get paid.
 
Well I have my 1st reply from one of the 3 websites that have used the Photo

It reads....

"I note that we have used your image in error. It has been removed.


You are obliged to notify us of unauthorised use before you can invoice us. We will therefore not be paying your invoice."


I have no idea on these things! Can they just say that?
 
This is what I thought. if you went into a shop and just took someting out and then 2 1/2 years later were told you need to pay for it you couldn't just give it back and say sorry it was a mistake!!

I just would like to know how to react to this now, lol
 
They can say that - but don't let it put you off - they have just admitted theft!
 
you could word it "oooooo ya bugga's, pay up *** yow owe or I'll send me boys round".

They should have attempted to obtain your permission at the very least before using the image. There is no mistake in using an image, if it was on your site, and came onto theirs, they have clearly pinched it.
 
.. "I have taken advice following your admission in your email of ../../2011 that you have used my image illegally, and I therefore resubmit my invoice for your prompt payment.."

.. plenty of advice about.. everyone offers it ;)
 
its been very interesting reading through this thread , please let us know how it turns out Simon.
 
It sounds like a standard knock back. Just plug away by email a couple of times to let them know that you aren't going to disappear after a strongly fonted email!

Good luck! :)
 
Stick with it! I received a compensation cheque yesterday for the exact same thing. It was a different paper and I spotted it the day it came out through their internet page.

After around 10 days of phone calls with the picture editor, I'd had enough so sent them an invoice and told him I'd done so. He said "fair enough we'll just have to pay it".

Perhaps I could of taken them to court but tbh I was happy with the amount I got and really didn't want the hassle.

So good luck and don't give up (y)
 
You have actually made good progress here. As a matter of law I can tell you that there is no defence to say you used someone's copyright material by accident. The publication didn't populate itself. If it was your intellectual property and if they chose to use it without permission or payment then in normal circumstances they are liable to you in compensation.

In fact a formal invoice wouldn't have been a necessity, but it is a reasonable way to go forward and certainly makes things clear. The important aspect is that if push comes to shove you can show a rational basis for whatever figure you have arrived at for payment.

You should of course immediately make clear that you have taken advice (which, as stated by one of the other posters is true) and you now intend to pursue a legal remedy if they refuse to pay but that you would have thought that they would prefer to settle your claim on an informal basis.

Be aware that many companies tend to ignore emailed threats. I would still email but also send a letter by recorded delivery which (a) refers to the emails (b) encloses a further copy of the invoice (c) sets a specified time for them to let you have their proposal for payment - I would suggest 14 days, and (d) asks for details of their solicitors or other persons who would take receipt of a summons. It is a good idea to add at the foot, in block capitals perhaps, "This letter and related enclosures may be referred to for their terms in any proceedings which follow hereon".

I'd be surprised if you don't get a positive response. Make sure you give contact details including a phone number. As well as a principal copy to the picture desk or whoever has been dealing with it I would also send a copy to the editor or some other separate head of department, so that one individual can't just ignore it on his desk.

If this doesn't work follow it up with a 7 day letter advising that you have now commenced steps to raise an action in whatever local court you have and that unless payment is made in 7 days the action will be served and you will seek payment and also the expenses of the action.

If still no payment then you must decide whether to actually raise an action. If you have to though, don't be afraid to do it. Just go in and take advice from the clerk's office about raising a small claim.

Good luck,

Alistair
 
Very interesting thread. Watching this one.
 
Going through the same at the moment with an IPC media title. They ignored the invoice but the threat of court action seems to have worked. I'm expecting payment this week so watch this space. One of the people I spoke to seemed to indicate it was normal practice just to take what they want and pay up if they got caught. "you'd be surprised how many (photographers) don't bother to send in an invoice" for those of you that haven't tried it www.tineye.com is great for tracking down images. I just used NUJ rates with a double charge for unauthorised use.
 
Boich said:
I just used NUJ rates with a double charge for unauthorised use.
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:thinking: ... If they choose to pay double charge then they are obviously idiots and somehow I doubt that! But well done anyway.
 
They got caught. They'll pay up. I've had 100% success like this - and yes at double the normal rate.
 
awp said:
They got caught. They'll pay up. I've had 100% success like this - and yes at double the normal rate.
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Why would they pay double? ..... The cost is the cost!
 
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