Old queery... and still confussed!?!? - Samples Added!!!

captures.in.time

captures.in.time

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Another post in the general photo sharing area brought me back to an old query of mine...to which im still a bit confused... what apature and ISO is actually best for night shots... I've struggled and got good results in the past but i've never really read a great book explaining the concept and have had mixed advice when broaching the subject on here... so thought i'd give it another go... and prob deserves a thread of its own really!

But are you better using say a wide apature at night and a faster ISO so as to increase the shutter speed minimising camera shake... which tends to be the downfall of many of my night shots. I dont mean loads of camera shake but enough that my night shots are never as clear as even a similar hand held image taken in day light. I tend to go for the same set up in day as at night so 100ISO and f8 as a minimum so as to have the desired DOF... Im thinking im wrong to do this as the loss in image quality through a longer shutter speed is the bigger issue...also with this type of night shot DOF is never actually a huge issue... but whats the concencus!?!?!

Any thoughts would be appreciated...

Mark
 
i think your best with Low ISO, the aperture depends on what your shooting.........

and night shots should really be with a tripod and remote shutter release
 
Not really sure I understand the question! It would help if I / We knew what kind of night shots you are after? Reading the post it sounds as if you are trying to get a daylight type shot at night :thinking:
 
:agree: ...but as a general guide night shots will require a tripod/monopod/bean bag/firm surface or some such to provide sharp images... :shrug:

Increasing ISO will not be the answer in all situations but until we know your type of image we will be shooting in the dark... :suspect:



:coat:





:p
 
General Scenic Shots I'm after...

And yeh I'm using remote release... mirror lock up and 055pro tripod...

Just images seem a little soft and I think i'd be better shooting then at a low iiso of 100 say... but f5.6 rather than maybe f8 or 11... as I maybe would if I was including foreground interest!

Mark
 
markelliot said:
Just images seem a little soft and I think i'd be better shooting then at a low iiso of 100 say... but f5.6 rather than maybe f8 or 11... as I maybe would if I was including foreground interest!
Click to expand...

Good that you're using a tripod and other stuff and to have an idea what you are shooting... :thumbs:

Not understanding yet where you are going wrong though... :shrug: ... I am not an expert by any stretch but ISO and aperture will not affect the sharpness of your image... :thinking:

Maybe you are not getting your point of focus as spot on as you need to... :suspect: ... and I would say, for general scenic shots the higher apertures would be better otherwise you will start to seriously limit your DoF... unless that is what you are wanting to achieve of course... :D






:p
 
markelliot said:
General Scenic Shots I'm after...

And yeh I'm using remote release... mirror lock up and 055pro tripod...

Just images seem a little soft and I think i'd be better shooting then at a low iiso of 100 say... but f5.6 rather than maybe f8 or 11... as I maybe would if I was including foreground interest!

Mark
Click to expand...

Okay! .... If I understand correctly? Then may I suggest that if you are meaning detail in the darker areas? You will have softer looking shots as you will not have contrast to bring out the detail! Lighted areas should be sharp, but at night the whole DOF thing changes because there is no depth of field without light.. :thinking: If that makes sense? or in other words you lose the 3D effect of the light .... Hope that makes sense to you? cos I'm struggling with it and I even think I know what I mean .... :cool:
 
Where Im coming from is....
Id like to see more contrast and sharpness in my night shots.

I've always assumed that the effects of DOF would be the same at night as in the day... I.E If im taking a scene of a city scape with say a bench in the foreground about 6m away... then id focus on the bench... set my apature to f8 and ISO to 100. I'd let the camera take care of shutter speed and i'd normally take a spot meeter reading from a lit area which is in the mid dynamic range of the shot. Then I'd bracked 1 stop up and one stop down.

What I am now thinking is because I use f8 say as opposed to f4 or 5.6 then my shutter speed will be slower... hence less time for camera shake, tripod wobble to happen... which it does on every shot no matter how any of us try to control it! Maybe it is this extra time with the shutter open that causes the softness.
 
Are your highlights sharp?

You do appear to be doing everything right with regards to tripod, mirror lockup and cable release. Are you sure you are getting tripod wobble? Do you hook something onto your tripod to give it a bit of weight at all?

I'm a right lazy git shooting at night and I don't even bother with mirror lockup or remote releases and I've not had a problem at all. IF I was having problems I'd take a little more care so I'm wondering what it is that you are seeing happen here.

Are you using an IS lens? Have you turned off the IS if you are?

Sorry for all the questions but let's see what we can eliminate.
 
markelliot said:
Where Im coming from is....
Id like to see more contrast and sharpness in my night shots.

I've always assumed that the effects of DOF would be the same at night as in the day... I.E If im taking a scene of a city scape with say a bench in the foreground about 6m away... then id focus on the bench... set my apature to f8 and ISO to 100. I'd let the camera take care of shutter speed and i'd normally take a spot meeter reading from a lit area which is in the mid dynamic range of the shot. Then I'd bracked 1 stop up and one stop down.

What I am now thinking is because I use f8 say as opposed to f4 or 5.6 then my shutter speed will be slower... hence less time for camera shake, tripod wobble to happen... which it does on every shot no matter how any of us try to control it! Maybe it is this extra time with the shutter open that causes the softness.
Click to expand...

I stick to f/8 for my night photography unless I have a subject (like the bench you mentioned) and then I'll shoot as wide as possible to get some nice Depth of Field.

I can't say I get tripod wobble :lol: I've never heard of it! I use a remote shutter and that way the camera doesn't move at all, I always use auto focus with the 'strobe flash' until it picks up on the focus then I switch the flash off and switch to manual focus to lock it into place.
 
I only recently found out about turning my IS off but I do this all the time now... actually im maybe a bit premature with this question as not really done much night togging since I learned about the IS and that may have been the route of the problem. Also most of my images up to last year where on film and maybe detail has been lost in the scanning... I'll try to find a few examples...

1. A recent example and just dont think its as sharp as others I see here!
3597393320_e7bf113c26.jpg


2. Another
3597393448_1239ba7375.jpg


3. And a few of my film examples... Def bad!
3510733287_c170883630.jpg


4.
3272336981_6439e4d27d.jpg


5.
3272753177_2b079d8d72.jpg


6. One im particularly annoyed I never nailed!!!
3273326448_b3225b69a2.jpg
 
I'll try one as a test as im sure they are too big at the next size up and the mods will say NOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

3597393448_1239ba7375_b.jpg


or

3273326448_b3225b69a2_b.jpg
 
Just to clarify, are these two images shot at f/8, iso 100, apeture priority, tripod, mirror lockup, cable release, on film and then scanned?

If thats all correct then i can't see anything more you can do in increase sharpnes or detail other than:

Better glass
Medium format camera
better scanner

Do the images have the same softness before scanning?
 
The QEII Bridge (?) doesn't look too bad imhgo... :thinking:

But the second one seems over-exposed and may be contributing to the impression of 'softness' ... :shrug:






:p
 
Which lens are you using?
I would think that either your tripod is shaking, or IS is on.
Also, I suspect that you have a UV filter on the lens. Take it off. I think the main problem you have there would be extra reflections/burnout.
You could try HDR, I suspect that the 'problem' is the burnout on the lights. (the skyscraper/hotel itself is sharp, but the lights are not)
 
Hi all

Thanks for your comments...

I think I have sussed from your comments a lot of the issues with some of my older film shots...

Most of them have been taken with the IS on... and I think there is prob scanning softness preasent... Also I was using a UV filter but I have learned this is a mistake.

I was using a canon 28-135mm for most of them but i've upgraded to a 24-105mm L and soon going to buy a 17-40L too... so my glass should be fine.

I think you are also right about the over exposure...

I guess going back to my original question... is there a benefit of reducing the shutter speed by selecting a wider apature, hence meaning a slight loss in DOF when shooting this type of night shot where there is no real close in forground interest where f8 could be really taking more DOF than needed...

Also someone said earlier "Lighted areas should be sharp, but at night the whole DOF thing changes because there is no depth of field without light.. "

Is it true that you can ignore DOF at night?

Mark
 
I have the 28-135, it is useless on a tripod if you have the IS on, that could be the crux of your problem.
I think that depth of field is still a problem at night.
I have only done a few night shots myself, I think you are about there to be honest, take off the UV filter (that will help reduce the star effect you are getting), and turn off the IS, and try again. Try it in your back garden tonight possibly? Personally, I think that f/8-16 could be about right, focusing is more difficult at night.
The DOF is going to be 'larger' the further away your subject focus is. So if shooting some flowers a couple of meters away, f/5 might only cover a meter, whereas f/5 at a distance of a quarter of a mile will be quite a bit. A bit of suck it and see I think.
(I can't really practice/take any decent night shots. SWMBO wants to know what we are hanging around for on a bridge)
 
I take my night shots at f11 using the 24-105mm with IS off, tripod mounted ISO 100 and the exposure as long as I need and I've got mine plenty sharp without having to use mirror lockup or a remote.

Give it a go and let us know how you get on. :)
 
Looking at your images in reply #14.
just to add something else into the mix - both images look over exposed to me.

I have attached a 100% crop section of a night shot.
Taken on an old, not so solid tripod using the selt timer.
D300 18-105@30mm 2.5s F7.1 ISO200.

The fuzzyness is due to the fact that the horizon was out and the edge of the window and straight lines of lights were cutting across the lines of pixels.
This that pixels that should be black or white end up as greys giving the look of a fuzzy edge.

DSC_0781a100Percent.jpg


The full image is posted here...
http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=112849
 
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