OLD STYLE LENSES, FASTER THAN MODERN

Lensflare

Lensflare

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Simon Everett
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I was browsing an old Nikon lens catalogue the other day, not that old because it had some AFS lenses in it, but back in the days of film and manual focus still.

I noticed that there were a number of stunning lenses in the line up that simply have never been repeated in the modern, electronic, talk-to-the-camera lenses. Models such as:
8mm fisheye - yes 8mm. Circular image on 35mm.
24mm f2
28mm f1.4D - an electronic, talkative lens at that.
35mm f1.4

For those who like nifties, how about a 50mm f1.2 - yes, 1.2.
Bear in mind these were all standard production lenses, not special limited run lenses for special purposes. If one looks into those, then there were even faster lenses made back in the 1930s, such as:
Tokyo Kogaku 50mm f0.7
Simlar 5cm 0.7 of which only 3 were made.
Leica Noctilux 50mm f1.0 - replaced last year with the Noctilux 0.95 Aspherical and with a price tag of £6290!

Even Canon were in on the action with an autofocus 50mm f1.0 EF, which is now out of production, but there must be some kicking about somewhere. Who will be first to snap one up?

Just me being a :geek: :p
 
I was looking at lenses today in Manchester. Jacobs had some of the Leica lenses in the window. As you say, they cost thousands but look like lovely little things they do.
 
Pearce - and your point is?

I used some 3200 quite regularly, and fuji E6 at 1600. They don't count in your 400 maxed out film then.

I would happily use these faster lenses, nay, I would relish these faster lenses in a modern design with modern, flourite glass and nano coatings....just imagine.
 
If you have the money, the 35/1.4 and 50/1.2 lenses are still available new :)

Nikon also did a 300/2 -- current used price around £8000
 
I have an Olympus Zuiko 50mm f1.4 Mint condition Cost £65
Asahi (Takumar) Pentax 55mm f1.8 cost £25 Near Mint condition Cost £25
Super Takumar 28mm f3.5 Mint condition Cost £35
Helios 58mm f2.0 Mint condition Cost £8
Helios 135mm f2.8 Mint Condition Cost £16.01

Adapters £2.45 each from amazon for my 40D

Ok they are manual but with live view focusing is a dodle but there is no metering from the camera. Loads and loads on ebay!

Very addictive too :( :D
 
acs said:
If you have the money, the 35/1.4 and 50/1.2 lenses are still available new :)
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These fast prime lenses hold their value in the used market too, particularly if in mint condition. I have to admit, I love Nikon's prime wide angle lenses, and they still make the AIS 20mm f/2.8, 24mm f/2.8 and 28mm f/2.8 as well as the two mentioned above.
 
The ttl metering should still work, shouldnt depend on the lens.



Dave
 
The 2.8s are really fast though, are they? I don't really count the f2 as fast, just good quality. However, when you start to get to 1.4 and 1.2, then you are in fast lens territory.

The 501.2L - is that a canon? Won't fit the Nikon I am afraid! I don't like 50s anyway, too "standard" for me, I would use a 35 over a 50 every time, so the 35 f1.4 is the one I would be more interested in, even over the Nikon 50 f1.2.

This was just an exercise in reliving the design and build capabilities of the old lens technicians. They really knew their stuff and we don't give them enough credit. For heavens sake, f0.7.......even f1.0 is really something. And to think that they had those 0.7 lenses before the second world war, when lenses were polished by hand on ladies petticoats. No wonder photography has always had that allure about it:naughty:.
 
Oh I don't know the Nikon 28mm f2 is said to be one of there best lens and currently I am after one.

Nikons, and other manufactures, fast lens are ace they give brilliant bokeh and are stunningly sharp.

The fast Nikon you really want is the old 58mm Noct f1.2 they did saw one on Ebay about 6 moths ago sell for around the £1200 mark

And talking about f 1 lens, the Leica Notilux 50mm f0.95 is yours for around £7000
 
The real test of a lens is how well it performs at its widest aperture, as generally, the widest and smallest aperture settings are the weak points. I suppose the question would be whether, say, a 24mm f/2 set to f/2.8 would perform better than the f/2.8 equivalent set at the same aperture, if you see what I mean.
 
Sigma do f/1.8s in 20, 24 and 28mm.

...and I wouldn't be surprised to see at least one fast wide Nikon lens to appear in the not too distant future.

There are some very fast lenses out there but whether they suit modern cameras, today's shooting styles, etc. and would thus be commercially viable as new products is another question. Look at the price of current full-frame 1.4 and 1.2 lenses...
 
Knikki said:
Oh I don't know the Nikon 28mm f2 is said to be one of there best lens and currently I am after one.
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I can vouch for that lens as I've had one for several years (AIS version). It is a lovely lens.
 
Knikki said:
And talking about f 1 lens, the Leica Notilux 50mm f0.95 is yours for around £7000
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Yes, then there's the question of camera design: SLR v Rangefinder, ... and its impact on lens design.
 
acs said:
Yes, but there's then the question of camera design: SLR v Rangefinder, ... and its impact on lens design.
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True those fast 0.95 lens I have only seen on Lecia and the old Canon range finders. However just copied this from good old Wiki

Some of the fastest camera lenses ever made are:
Carl Zeiss 50mm f/0.7 (Limited production lens built for the NASA space program, used on 35mm movie cameras by Stanley Kubrick for some candlelit scenes in Barry Lyndon)

Tokyo Kogaku Toko 5cm f/0.7 (WWII) and Simlar 5cm f/0.7 (1951, only three were produced, two of which were used on a South pole expedition)

Rodenstock TV-Heligon 50mm f/0.75

Nikon TV-Nikkor 35mm f/0.9-Fastest Nikon lens ever made[4]

Leica Noctilux-M 50 mm f/0.95 ASPH, announced on September 15, 2008, it is the fastest Aspherical lens to have ever reached mass production, with a MSRP of £6290.

Canon 50mm f/0.95 (Available in TV and Canon 7 Rangefinder Version)

Schneider Kreuznach 50mm f/0.95 'Xenon' (Available with C mount)

Leica Noctilux 50mm f/1.0 (Leica M mount, discontinued and replaced 2008 with a new Noctilux, see above)

Canon EF 50mm f/1.0 (for Canon autofocus SLR, now out of production)


And out of that little lot only one SLR lens made by Canon
 
Practically all those ultrafast (f/0.75 and the likes) lenses would not be fully usable on SLR or rangefinder. All of them have rather small image circle and very short back focal distance (meaning they have to be mounted very close to image plane). As a result, on typical SLR or rangefinder their use will be limited to macro shooting with short distance to subject. And at that distance effective aperture is nowhere near F/0.75 or their stated aperture.

I have adapted Rodenstock TV-Heligon 50mm f/0.75 for Nikon and the max effective aperture I can get is in between f/1.4-f/1.8. Still their effective aperture in that range better than any other fast standard lenses (50mm F/1.2 and the like) used with the similar magnification.
 
I've been looking at fast primes, the old M42 Lenses and theres some bargains out there if they don't have fungus on the the blades. Going to be purchasing adapter from ebay for definate, Get some nice big primes for cheap and should be quality glass.
 
I'm not sure why Canon discontinued the 50mm f/1.0.. apparently the large diameter of the EF lens mount made a f/1.0 lens possible, i.e. Nikon could only manage f/1.2! I would have thought Canon would have kept this lens in their line-up just to show what their system is capable of.

Review here.. be prepared to pay four figures for a second-hand copy!

A.
 
Most people used 50mm primes as their "standard" lenses on 35mm in those days, usually in the f1.4 - f2.0 range, although there were a few f1.2s around. Minolta's Rokkor was excellent, and is sometimes compared with the Noct Nikkor. There are people in the US who convert them to Canon mount now. I don't know when short, comparatively slow, zooms started becoming popular. Maybe someone can post?
 
Lensflare said:
I was browsing an old Nikon lens catalogue the other day, not that old because it had some AFS lenses in it, but back in the days of film and manual focus still.

I noticed that there were a number of stunning lenses in the line up that simply have never been repeated in the modern, electronic, talk-to-the-camera lenses. Models such as:
8mm fisheye - yes 8mm. Circular image on 35mm.
24mm f2
28mm f1.4D - an electronic, talkative lens at that.
35mm f1.4

For those who like nifties, how about a 50mm f1.2 - yes, 1.2.
Bear in mind these were all standard production lenses, not special limited run lenses for special purposes.
Click to expand...
But it's only Nikon who hasn't repeated these designs in the modern, electronic, talk-to-the-camera lenses. Other manufacturers have:

8mm fisheye - Sigma make one of these. And a 4.5mm fisheye for a circular image on cropped sensors.

24mm f/2, 28mm f/1.4, 35mm f/1.4 - Canon make a 24mm f/1.4 and a 35mm f/1.4.

50mm f/1.2 - Canon make one of these.

It might be interesting to speculate as to why Nikon have pulled out of making ultra-fast primes, and Canon haven't.
 
StewartR said:
It might be interesting to speculate as to why Nikon have pulled out of making ultra-fast primes,
Click to expand...
ok i will, cost. High cost means limited returns and the need for fast primes is being negated by other features and techniques.
StewartR said:
and Canon haven't.
Click to expand...
Tradition or because Nikon did, giving them more of a market.

Just my speculations anyway.
 
Carl V said:
The real test of a lens is how well it performs at its widest aperture.
Click to expand...

I think the real test of a lens is how it performs the way you use it. An f1.2 lens still has an advantage if you only ever use it at f8 as the view in the viefinder will be brighter.


Steve.
 
Steve Smith said:
I think the real test of a lens is how it performs the way you use it. An f1.2 lens still has an advantage if you only ever use it at f8 as the view in the viefinder will be brighter.


Steve.
Click to expand...

Yes this is true. I actually made some comparison shots taken with both the 24mm f/2.8 and 28mm f/2 of the same scene using f/5.6 and, apart from the wider angle, I can't say I've noticed any difference in sharpness when viewed on a 10 x 8 print. But as you say, the faster lens does have a brighter image and makes it a little easier to focus.
 
Anorakus said:
I'm not sure why Canon discontinued the 50mm f/1.0.. apparently the large diameter of the EF lens mount made a f/1.0 lens possible, i.e. Nikon could only manage f/1.2!
Click to expand...

The max lens speed possible is not limited by mount diameter - that is simply not true. All those f/0.75 lenses can be mounted on M39 cameras or even modern compact P&S (if someone is up to making the adapter).

The fastest Nikon lens ever produced AFAIK is TV-Nikkor 35mm F/0.9 and it's a proper Nikkor.
 
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