Older Nikons vs Newer Micro 4/3

[Stephen L]

Thinking about software... if Keith doesn't like any of the free packages will Elements process raws?

If it does that could be a cheap way into processing. Loads of them on ebay.

In my early days I used Rawtherapee but it started to crash my pc so it got the boot.

I'm pretty sure it does; I don't know how much Elements is but it seems to be getting a bit niche these days. In the absence of LR or DxO, Affinity would seem to be the best bet.

 

[woof woof]

I'm pretty sure it does; I don't know how much Elements is but it seems to be getting a bit niche these days. In the absence of LR or DxO, Affinity would seem to be the best bet.

I've just Googled it and Google says it does but I wonder if all version do raw or only later versions? I don't know.

I just thought it may be a cheap way forward as there are copies on ebay for not a lot of money.

 

[Crotal Bell]

I'm pretty sure it does; I don't know how much Elements is but it seems to be getting a bit niche these days. In the absence of LR or DxO, Affinity would seem to be the best bet.

I think I'll have to grab Affinity when the old wage packet drops in a few days, not too sure about all the mad stuff in the promo video though

 

[Sangoma]

I think I'll have to grab Affinity when the old wage packet drops in a few days, not too sure about all the mad stuff in the promo video though

You won't regret it

I haven't use Darktable or Gimp much at all since getting Affinity

I'm sure there is a free trial

 

[Crotal Bell]

You won't regret it

I haven't use Darktable or Gimp much at all since getting Affinity

I'm sure there is a free trial

I found Gimp totally un-friendly to use, couldn't work out how to do anything. I like things simple and obvious.

 

[Ed Sutton]

I found Gimp totally un-friendly to use, couldn't work out how to do anything. I like things simple and obvious.

In that case download the free trial of Affinity before shelling out on it. I can't get to grips with it at all for processing photos.

 

[Sangoma]

I found Gimp totally un-friendly to use, couldn't work out how to do anything. I like things simple and obvious.

I don't think that goes hand in hand with any photo software

I could never get used to PS, and have been using Gimp for well over 10 years, but I agree it does take some learning, but to me a lot less than PS.

For basic work, I don't know what can be found difficult with Affinity, and when I don't know how to do something, I am surprised how simple it is when I search youtube.

However, when ever you look on any forum, you will find people who seem to have all bad luck with software, and others who think it is the best thing since sliced bread, the only way to see where you are on that scale is to try it

 

[snerkler]

I always found lightroom the easiest to learn, at least to do the basic editing. Obviously there's some advanced stuff that you can do that takes some learning, but it's straight forwards to start with. Load a photo, move some sliders around and job done

 

[Stephen L]

I always found lightroom the easiest to learn, at least to do the basic editing. Obviously there's some advanced stuff that you can do that takes some learning, but it's straight forwards to start with. Load a photo, move some sliders around and job done

I’m reluctant to admit it as it’s frowned on by the cognoscenti, but the first thing I do in Lightroom (once I’ve run the file through DxO PureRaw) is to hit the Auto button. Use that as a starter then fiddle a bit.

 

[Crotal Bell]

In that case download the free trial of Affinity before shelling out on it. I can't get to grips with it at all for processing photos.

Great idea thanks.

 

[Crotal Bell]

I’m reluctant to admit it as it’s frowned on by the cognoscenti, but the first thing I do in Lightroom (once I’ve run the file through DxO PureRaw) is to hit the Auto button. Use that as a starter then fiddle a bit.

I don't see anything wrong with that if you're happy with the outcome.
What does DxO Pureraw do first that's an advantage?

 

[Crotal Bell]

I always found lightroom the easiest to learn, at least to do the basic editing. Obviously there's some advanced stuff that you can do that takes some learning, but it's straight forwards to start with. Load a photo, move some sliders around and job done

I've seen people use it on YouTube and yes it does look very easy. I like the idea of seeing all the controls on a deck at the same time.

 

[Crotal Bell]

I don't think that goes hand in hand with any photo software

I could never get used to PS, and have been using Gimp for well over 10 years, but I agree it does take some learning, but to me a lot less than PS.

For basic work, I don't know what can be found difficult with Affinity, and when I don't know how to do something, I am surprised how simple it is when I search youtube.

However, when ever you look on any forum, you will find people who seem to have all bad luck with software, and others who think it is the best thing since sliced bread, the only way to see where you are on that scale is to try it

Yeah I guess some will never take to any of the platforms

 

[Stephen L]

I don't see anything wrong with that if you're happy with the outcome.
What does DxO Pureraw do first that's an advantage?

It optimises the lens/body combination better than Lightroom, reducing noise and increasing definition. Works fine on m4/3 and Sony, needed less for Nikon in my experience.

 

[snerkler]

I've seen people use it on YouTube and yes it does look very easy. I like the idea of seeing all the controls on a deck at the same time.

What I tend to do whenever I buy a new camera is create and save a profile for it in Lightroom. I then apply this preset on import therefore a lot of the time all the editing I need to do is crop if needed, alter WB if needed and adjust exposure if needed.

 

[Crotal Bell]

What I tend to do whenever I buy a new camera is create and save a profile for it in Lightroom. I then apply this preset on import therefore a lot of the time all the editing I need to do is crop if needed, alter WB if needed and adjust exposure if needed.

Ah right. so if there are a few tweaks you know work with a certain camera then they are pre-set in a profile when you upload the pictures?

 

[ancient_mariner]

I've used Lightroom, DXO Optics pro, On1 photoraw, Capture 1, GIMP, Raw Therapy, Darktable, Nik suite, DigiKam and various bits of horrible software from Macfun. Affinity is almost completely impenetrable to me, and although I have it installed, it has never been used successfully to edit a single picture. DEFINITELY get the free trial first.

 

[snerkler]

Ah right. so if there are a few tweaks you know work with a certain camera then they are pre-set in a profile when you upload the pictures?

Yep, applied on import into Lightroom.

 

[ancient_mariner]

Yep, applied on import into Lightroom.

I to have some basic settings applied on import - just makes life easier and editing a bit quicker.

 

[woof woof]

I've used Lightroom, DXO Optics pro, On1 photoraw, Capture 1, GIMP, Raw Therapy, Darktable, Nik suite, DigiKam and various bits of horrible software from Macfun. Affinity is almost completely impenetrable to me, and although I have it installed, it has never been used successfully to edit a single picture. DEFINITELY get the free trial first.

I have CS5 and I also subscribed to the latest one but I can't see any great advantage over CS5 so I'm thinking about something else.

As you seem to have tried everything what would you recommend from that lot? Ideally I'd like to process raws and be able to use Nik filters but I could keep CS5 for that.

Ta if you can recommend something.

 

[ancient_mariner]

I have CS5 and I also subscribed to the latest one but I can't see any great advantage over CS5 so I'm thinking about something else.

As you seem to have tried everything what would you recommend from that lot? Ideally I'd like to process raws and be able to use Nik filters but I could keep CS5 for that.

Ta if you can recommend something.

Lightroom 6 is at the centre of my processing. Best combination of processing, cataloguing, integration and output I've found so far. Both On1 and Nik work as plugins. This is a standalone copy, as I won't subscribe, and it's days are limited.

I recently did a fairly large 'job' with On1 Photoraw 2022, and was generally pleased with the output, especially denoising & recovering detail in high-ISO shots. Did all my culling (from about 1100 to 250 shots) plus all subsequent processing, and once I was familiar it took no longer than Lightroom. I bought this version to replace lightroom, the plan was to import the 40,000 images in the LR catalogue, but it simply didn't work. I'm therefore gradually moving some work over to On1, but keeping the personal mono stuff on LR/Nik where I developed that style of processing. This would be my go-to if there was no LR6 and it does vastly more than LR can, but stuff like brushes and gradients just aren't quite as good..

I've tried repeatedly to love DXO stuff and the images never look GREAT to me. No digital asset management IIRC.

C1 - a bit better but more complicated than DXO, otherwise same comments.

DigiKam is a great free editor/processor, but it's destructive. Don't remember there being brushes or gradients, but it's been 8 years since I used it seriously.

 

[woof woof]

Lightroom 6 is at the centre of my processing. Best combination of processing, cataloguing, integration and output I've found so far. Both On1 and Nik work as plugins. This is a standalone copy, as I won't subscribe, and it's days are limited.

I recently did a fairly large 'job' with On1 Photoraw 2022, and was generally pleased with the output, especially denoising & recovering detail in high-ISO shots. Did all my culling (from about 1100 to 250 shots) plus all subsequent processing, and once I was familiar it took no longer than Lightroom. I bought this version to replace lightroom, the plan was to import the 40,000 images in the LR catalogue, but it simply didn't work. I'm therefore gradually moving some work over to On1, but keeping the personal mono stuff on LR/Nik where I developed that style of processing. This would be my go-to if there was no LR6 and it does vastly more than LR can, but stuff like brushes and gradients just aren't quite as good..

I've tried repeatedly to love DXO stuff and the images never look GREAT to me. No digital asset management IIRC.

C1 - a bit better but more complicated than DXO, otherwise same comments.

DigiKam is a great free editor/processor, but it's destructive. Don't remember there being brushes or gradients, but it's been 8 years since I used it seriously.

Ta for that. I'll have a read and a think tomorrow but from a quick read it looks like nothing there is really going to be suitable.

I did briefly try Lightroom and although I know it's loved by many and is pretty much the standard package I just hated it. To me it seemed to be primarily for tagging and cataloguing pictures with a processor tucking up in a corner somewhere. I found CS5 easier and more intuitive to use. With LR I was left wondering where the processing package and tools were.

At the mo I use the latest version of photoshop but the graphic module keeps crashing and I really should uninstall it and install it again but cancelling the subscription could be an option too. The only reason I got it was because CS5 doesn't apply lens corrections to my Panasonic G100 files whereas the latest version does but it keeps crashing and wont let me use Nik filters.

 

[ancient_mariner]

You could download a free trial of on1 or DXO photolab. There was also a stripped down 'sony' version of C1 that's free.

 

[Ed Sutton]

With LR I was left wondering where the processing package and tools were.

Press the 'D' key and there they are.

Much as I didn't want to pay the subscription for Lightroom I have to say it does a lot more, more easily, than LR6.

 

[Stephen L]

I did briefly try Lightroom and although I know it's loved by many and is pretty much the standard package I just hated it. To me it seemed to be primarily for tagging and cataloguing pictures with a processor tucking up in a corner somewhere.

For the way I use it, it's primarily an image processor, and, as a very secondary function, a cataloging tool. But it's all about what you're used to. I was using LR before it became LR - when it was Rawshooter, so when Adobe took it over Rawshooter users got a free copy of the first iteration of Lightroom. I quite like the subscription model as it means you are drip-fed new features. Easier to learn them that way. I've tried others, but I'll stick with what I know, warts and all. For now.

 

[woof woof]

For the way I use it, it's primarily an image processor, and, as a very secondary function, a cataloging tool. But it's all about what you're used to. I was using LR before it became LR - when it was Rawshooter, so when Adobe took it over Rawshooter users got a free copy of the first iteration of Lightroom. I quite like the subscription model as it means you are drip-fed new features. Easier to learn them that way. I've tried others, but I'll stick with what I know, warts and all. For now.

I used Rawshooter Essentials. It was good and easy to use.

One complaint I have with the new version of photoshop is that the fill light slider has gone and its replacement is pathetic. You have to choose an older version under "calibration" to get the slider back. Also the scrubby zoom has been replaced with one which jumps to a predetermined magnification and back again. There may be steps forward but the most obvious changes are IMO all backward steps. Oh and there's far more keyboard use with the new version, with CS5 you could do everything with the mouse and never touch the keyboard. That's another backward step for me. All in all I would like to ditch this so may well give something else a try.

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

As someone who's used Macs for several years, I find that Preview does virtually everything I need with the exception of reversing scanned negatives.

For cataloguing, I give each shot a name that I can search on, then use the terminal to search for what I want. Mind you, the find function in Windows 10 Explorer is very nearly as useful as the Unix find command for simple searches and with thumbnail viewing is even more helpful.

 

[Stephen L]

I used Rawshooter Essentials. It was good and easy to use.

One complaint I have with the new version of photoshop is that the fill light slider has gone and its replacement is pathetic. You have to choose an older version under "calibration" to get the slider back. Also the scrubby zoom has been replaced with one which jumps to a predetermined magnification and back again. There may be steps forward but the most obvious changes are IMO all backward steps. Oh and there's far more keyboard use with the new version, with CS5 you could do everything with the mouse and never touch the keyboard. That's another backward step for me. All in all I would like to ditch this so may well give something else a try.

I never use the keyboard, just the meece. In my opinion things have improved drastically since CS5. Hey ho.

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

Preview is great for quick / dirty modifications.. Not quite as powerful as something like Affinity Photo though.

Different folk, different strokes, as some of my American in-laws have been known to say.

 

[Ham]

Also the scrubby zoom has been replaced with one which jumps to a predetermined magnification and back again.

Sounds to me like you haven't discovered the navigator pane? There's a metric tonne of stuff to learn to use PS efficiently, the most I would claim is to be able to do the stuff I need and know how to look up the stuff I don't. Mouse can be used for everything, but often keyboard is the logical and easy way to go - eg switching library to develop in LR.

I'm not overawed by the subscription system, but I do believe in paying for software. As long as I can afford it, it works for me. One small collateral benefit which you may not even have realised, along with your Adobe sub, you can convert pdf files to Word & Excel - rather useful from time to time.

 

[woof woof]

Sounds to me like you haven't discovered the navigator pane? There's a metric tonne of stuff to learn to use PS efficiently, the most I would claim is to be able to do the stuff I need and know how to look up the stuff I don't. Mouse can be used for everything, but often keyboard is the logical and easy way to go - eg switching library to develop in LR.

I'm not overawed by the subscription system, but I do believe in paying for software. As long as I can afford it, it works for me. One small collateral benefit which you may not even have realised, along with your Adobe sub, you can convert pdf files to Word & Excel - rather useful from time to time.

I can't see any way to get scrubby zoom in camera raw.

This is what I get.

The internet say that under general settings using LR zoom and pan gives scrubby zoom but I can unhappily confirm it does not.

The work around is to use the ctrl key and drag the box but not as convenient as SZ IMO. If anyone does know a way to enable SZ I'll try it, and this is in Camera Raw, it works ok in the (non raw) processor.

 

[Ham]

Maybe I'm missing a trick here - I never touch standalone camera raw, instead I just use Lightroom or PS, both of which give you the zoom you desire. What am I missing? Nothing, I would have thought as camera raw is the underlying processing engine for both but I'd be interested to hear.

ETA - in LR navigator is top left by default, in PS you may have to use the view window menu to display Navigator

 

[Stephen L]

Maybe I'm missing a trick here - I never touch standalone camera raw, instead I just use Lightroom or PS, both of which give you the zoom you desire. What am I missing? Nothing, I would have thought as camera raw is the underlying processing engine for both but I'd be interested to hear.

Ditto. Never touch ACR. That’s what Lightroom raw is for.

 

[Ham]

Maybe I'm missing a trick here - I never touch standalone camera raw, instead I just use Lightroom or PS, both of which give you the zoom you desire. What am I missing? Nothing, I would have thought as camera raw is the underlying processing engine for both but I'd be interested to hear.

ETA - in LR navigator is top left by default, in PS you may have to use the view window menu to display Navigator

Actually, I see what you mean. In LR, the Navigator panel works differently from PS in respect of the zoom, and it does just go in steps. As I'd never noticed that before, clearly it isn't an issue for me, in PS I have the navigator up all the while to move about, in LR the loupe works fine for me.

 

[woof woof]

I don't know what you mean by stand alone. It isn't stand alone as you can't use it by itself. It's a part of the package. I prefer the tools in the raw processor and do very little if any processing in the non raw processor as by that point it is arguably too late to make some changes without them creating issues and some things like the rotate function are much more clunky. If you're going to stick to LR/PS for processing you need to be aware that changes need to be done in a specific order to avoid issues. I typically only apply cloning or filters after raw processing. But to each their own evidenced by the fact that I tried LR once and immediately deleted it