ON LOCATION STUDIO SHOOTS (at home)

EdinburghGary

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Guys,

I have my first request to go to a home and do a studio shoot, about 35 miles from here (charging accordingly).

Can I ask, in a small sized room, the HILITE system, how exactly does it avoid LIGHT WRAP around problems? I presume it get's a clean 255 background without arsing the subject exposure?

Gary.
 
It doesn't, unless you get the exposure right
 
Go to the lastolite site and watch the tutorials :)
 
It doesn't, unless you get the exposure right

Let me try and clarify my query. Keeping it simple, with two lights.

Let's say you start to loose the backdrop at f16...but not quite. You then shoot your subject a stop or so below, f11ish?

Your background should now be blown completely, but what is it about the Hilite which allows you to shoot CLOSER to it without light wrapping? Or is it simply ignored, and you need to accept light wrap with the setup?

Gary.
 
For example:

"Hi,

no, we decided that we could add the train later if we were happy with the product. What we really like about it (apart from the clean bright, even light!!) is the fact that you don't have to put several feet between background and subject - you can have them right up against it. So good for tight spaces, shooting in someone else's home, etc.

Hugh"

Right up against it....would that traditionally not destroy fine edge detail etc?

Gary..
 
Only if it's overlit Gary :)

it's a diffuse light source so by it's very nature it is quite soft light, if you find you are losing edge detail turn the lights down a bit!
 
Only if it's overlit Gary :)

it's a diffuse light source so by it's very nature it is quite soft light, if you find you are losing edge detail turn the lights down a bit!

The main reason you can stand right next to it is that the light is coming from behind your subject and it is diffused.

As Alib said if you are getting light wrap or losing edge detail the hilite is too bright.

Normally you stand the subject 6 ft from the background because you are firing your lights from the front to reflect on the background with the hilite you do not need to do this...


(y)
 
The main reason you can stand right next to it is that the light is coming from behind your subject and it is diffused.

As Alib said if you are getting light wrap or losing edge detail the hilite is too bright.

Normally you stand the subject 6 ft from the background because you are firing your lights from the front to reflect on the background with the hilite you do not need to do this...


(y)

So by simply diffusing the light, it stops edge definition being destroyed?

To clarify...and I need to be very specific.

1: I can get a COMPLETELY BLOWN white "255" backdrop
2: I can stand my subject a mere 1ft from the hilite
3: And as long as the lights are not overly bright (but still bright enough for a 255 background), I will get ZERO wrapping problems?

Gary.
 
Pretty certain one of the lastolite videos says to have 2 stops between the hilite and the subject. I normally go for a max of 1 stop and don't have any major problems with losing edge detail
 
There is a very easy way to solve this if the subject isn't moving around too much ,and that's to use just enough white background, to give a white edge around the subject, but leave the rest black then afterwards select the black with photoshop and change to white. :)
 
Good luck Gary will be interested to hear how you get on with it as I just purchased a Hilite for the exact same purpose.

seen some comments about the train needing extra lighting if your going for full length shots.

You sure your not confusing that monster 150" octo with a hilite ;)
 
I haven't bought it yet. I have had enough problems with wrap in the shop to stop me buying one. I need to ensure that wrap is controlled and need for PP is minimum. Took me about 2 weeks to get to a level in the studio I was happy with, however, I am really yearning for my dedicated flash heads now to bring me more consistency. This thread will help me make decisions for both the on location AND in store shots.

G.
 
Another question, perhaps a new thread?

If I wanted to "BUILD" my own version for in the shop, let's say, 12ft x 12ft....does anyone know what the thing consists of?

Is it blacked out top, back and sides? Is it reflective on the inside etc?

G.
 
I have tried this with both 1 stop difference and 2 stops, both work fine and work, i have had as little as 1 ft between the background and the subject with some groups and small kids and you should be fine.

Also i have shot people in white taekwondo suits on a white background and i have not lost the edge detail.

The main problem i have storted noticing is that for full length portraits i get a yellowy corner because i only put one light in it. Easily fixed with PP but something to notice..!

Mac
 
I have tried this with both 1 stop difference and 2 stops, both work fine and work, i have had as little as 1 ft between the background and the subject with some groups and small kids and you should be fine.

Also i have shot people in white taekwondo suits on a white background and i have not lost the edge detail.

The main problem i have storted noticing is that for full length portraits i get a yellowy corner because i only put one light in it. Easily fixed with PP but something to notice..!

Mac


Hya,

Would you be in a position to show me uneddited portraits from RIGHT ON IT, 1ft a way, and 2 ft away, at both ONE and TWO stops of difference between backdrop on subject? :D

A big ask!!

G.
 
I haven't bought it yet. I have had enough problems with wrap in the shop to stop me buying one. I need to ensure that wrap is controlled and need for PP is minimum. Took me about 2 weeks to get to a level in the studio I was happy with, however, I am really yearning for my dedicated flash heads now to bring me more consistency. This thread will help me make decisions for both the on location AND in store shots.

G.

The main problem is lighting the vinyl train for full length shots.

Need one light just for this....
 
Hya,

Would you be in a position to show me uneddited portraits from RIGHT ON IT, 1ft a way, and 2 ft away, at both ONE and TWO stops of difference between backdrop on subject? :D

A big ask!!

G.

I havent got one personally, but i have used one, so i wont be able to help in this department..

I have had good results with 2 stop difference, not sure on distance away from hilite ??

(y)
 
Another question, perhaps a new thread?

If I wanted to "BUILD" my own version for in the shop, let's say, 12ft x 12ft....does anyone know what the thing consists of?

Is it blacked out top, back and sides? Is it reflective on the inside etc?

G.

It is black top, sides and back, don't think reflective inside. The front is white, with (annoyingly) a black border which holds the thing together.

There are four poles (one for each corner), that hold the sides rigid.

Edit: Sorry, it's white front and sides. Black on back.
 
Hya,

Would you be in a position to show me uneddited portraits from RIGHT ON IT, 1ft a way, and 2 ft away, at both ONE and TWO stops of difference between backdrop on subject? :D

A big ask!!

G.

I will do if you need it still tomorrow as i am just about to go out on my work night out and may drink more than 2 drinks. So i will probably not get round to it later.

I have this setup at home in the dining room and a daughter who is happy to model so i can send you exactly what you want at the settings you want if you let me know what you want.....

hope that makes sense.

Mac
 
I can't see how with any system you could put them right next to the light that there wouldn't be some bleeding, maybe if you tilted the hilite backwards it'd work better but i've no idea if that's even feasible
 
So by simply diffusing the light, it stops edge definition being destroyed?

To clarify...and I need to be very specific.

1: I can get a COMPLETELY BLOWN white "255" backdrop
2: I can stand my subject a mere 1ft from the hilite
3: And as long as the lights are not overly bright (but still bright enough for a 255 background), I will get ZERO wrapping problems?

Gary.

1. Yes - you can get a completely blown "255" background - but why risk edge degradation of the subject when it can be so easily adjusted PP?
2. Yes - but there will be a risk of edge degradation
3. See above

There is no really clear answer. Different people have different standards, some people don't seem to notice edge degradation (or even flare) and some find it totally unacceptable.
And the level of damage you'll get on a blond-haired caucasion person wearing a white top will be totally different from a black person with afro hair with the same level of overexposure
 
My take on this.

What do you mean by 'wrap'? It is not the bleached subject outline that you get by excessively over-exposing the background.

My understanding of wrap is that it is the specular highlight you get off the background on hair and cheeks - which is a reflection of the background which 'wraps around' the sides of the subject (angle of incidence equals angle of reflectance). To minimise wrap, you need the background to be only just wide enough to cover the subject. Given that you generally can't change the size of the background easily, you do this normally by moving the subject backwards/forwards from the background, which changes the size relative to the subject. Sometimes loads of wrap (big background, subject close to it) suits the generally high-key blown-white background look, but it makes exposure even more critical if you are not to lose the subject against the white.

The reason you can shoot close to a Hi-lite is because it is back-lit, though you'll get a lot of light wrap because the width then becomes effectively huge. You can't normally get that close to a conventionally lit white paper background because you need some distance for the lights or the subject gets in the way, possibly casting shadows but almost certainly catching some unwanted spill. Barn-doors would help there.

If your subject is static, or can be placed within a small area, it is much easier to set up the lights even in a confined space. But that is hopeless with young kids. They need space to move around and therefore you need a much bigger space to have any hope of getting even coverage. There is no perfect solution but for small locations (ie people's homes) I think a Hilite is very well worth having. I think it will save me two feet, maybe three, which when you're hard up against the sofa and the telly, is a godsend. I've got one on order from FITP.

I believe the Lastolite video says two stops over exposure for the background because it effectively also becomes the light for the train. If you are only half a stop or so up on the Hilite, the train will be a stop or more down on that, ie grey, so you need to pump everything up a bit. Dangerous game, but of all the various compromises you have to make, perhaps the best one.

Lighting the train is another balancing act and I think the best way to do it is set the Hilite as high as you dare, then with the front subject light use a BIG softbox (have you got one Gary? :D ) but set it back a bit - which you can do because it's big and still get plenty soft light. This minimises fall-off.

In this way, the front light also adds to the front of the train so that, with the Hilite illuminating the back of the train, between the two, everything comes out as close to pure white as possible.

Hope that makes sense :)

Edit: crossed post with Garry. I still think there is some confusion between the terms 'wrap' and 'edge degradation'. I think I've made the way I see it clear above - ie, as two compeletly different things. If you get the exposure levels right, there is no reason why you shouldn't put a subject right up against a Hilite, touching it even, and still get no edge degradation (bleaching) but you'll get tons of wrap because the background has become relatively enormous - almost 180 degrees. Diffused, or backlit, or whatever, has nothing to do with edge degradation, only exposure levels.
 
Lighting the train is another balancing act and I think the best way to do it is set the Hilite as high as you dare, then with the front subject light use a BIG softbox (have you got one Gary? :D ) but set it back a bit - which you can do because it's big and still get plenty soft light. This minimises fall-off.

In this way, the front light also adds to the front of the train so that, with the Hilite illuminating the back of the train, between the two, everything comes out as close to pure white as possible.

Hope that makes sense :)

Edit: crossed post with Garry. I still think there is some confusion between the terms 'wrap' and 'edge degradation'. I think I've made the way I see it clear above - ie, as two compeletly different things. If you get the exposure levels right, there is no reason why you shouldn't put a subject right up against a Hilite, touching it even, and still get no edge degradation (bleaching) but you'll get tons of wrap because the background has become relatively enormous - almost 180 degrees. Diffused, or backlit, or whatever, has nothing to do with edge degradation, only exposure levels.

Very good answer. I don't think he has got a big softbox, in fact I don't think he's even got his lights yet because he ordered from the wrong people;) but I agree that a big softbox would be a help. The problem with so-called 'high key' lighting using a white background is that it's difficult to get acceptable results without a large softbox, which tends to reduce the ighting to nothing more than flooding the whole scene with light and losing all shadows and the modelling that they create, and making everyone look fat.

Yes, 'wrap' is very different from edge degradation. Wrap is caused by the lighting coming from multiple directions and is a product of relative size (i.e. you can very eaily produce the effect if photographing an orange with a standard reflector placed close) and egde degradation is loss of edge detail caused by excessive overexposure, often aggravated by too little distance between subject and background (because the ISL substantially reduces the amount of light reaching the main subject as the distance increases).

Less actual power is needed when lighting a hi-lite (which is little more than a hideously overpriced softbox) simply because the light is transmitted instead of reflected. Transmitted light is even more likely to cause lens flare than reflected light.

With a conventional background using special background reflectors the light hits the background square on, which is efficient and the only effective power loss is that caused by the fact that no reflective surface except a mirror is 100% efficient - say 70% efficiency for the average background. If background reflectors aren't used and there are say 2 or 4 lights placed each side of the background at an angle, then less light bounces back towards the subject (because angle of reflectance = angle of incidence) but much higher power is needed because of cosine loss. I mentioned edge degradation because I guessed that Gary might have been using the word 'wrap' to describe it - and anyway, that's the main problem with using white backgrounds of any type in a small space.
 
Guys apologies. Edge degradation is my concern...

Two big answers, will try and absorb. Will take me some time!

Gary.
 
Here's an example of the hilite, an unedited shot, not sure if it helps:

hitlite_example.jpg


She was probably 1-1.5m away from the backdrop tops.

My lighting equipment isn't the best. I used one light in the background, a wide angle slave flash 230v. I then had two x 230v flash (one silver umbrella & one small softbox) on the subject. With more powerful lights, it'd be a lot different.

Unforunately, this is one of the few unedited shots I have, having just had a big clear out. If you want more, I can show you a few off board as I don't have permission from parents for online stuff. Message me if interested...
 
Cheers Rudesing, I can't see any edge problems which is promising. If you had any exampled with the subject even closer to backdrop would love to see.

Also, would like to see an example of the subject against the backdrop, with NO key light. Simply backdrop lights only, as I want to see how much exposure the HILITE adds.

Gary.
 
I'll have a look. Unfortunately, most of the ones I've done have a sheet in front of the Hilite which difuses the light even more. So I don't think they'll help. If you message me your email address then I'll dig out some I took with just the Hilite.
 
If people have requested you shoot in their home why not use a 'natural' background - rather than a studio b/g?
 
I think I'd want to create my own style rather than copying someone else. But that's just me - I don't do that kind of work anyway - shooting kids all day would drive me nuts! :)
 
Your spot on mate. At the moment, I am simply shooting what I can - and I have some serious limitations due to an on going struggle with my studio lighting. As such, I am being pigeonholed into a style which whilst is working, is not what I want to shoot going forward.

I have some very cool ideas which I really hope make me stand out and get recognised as someone with a cool and unique style (to an extent). I have already hinted at this in my branding, but I am not yet in a position to do this until my studio lights arrive.

G.
 
Is there a Venture in Edinburgh? How come so many people know about them and what they do?
 
Is there a Venture in Edinburgh? How come so many people know about them and what they do?

Massive Venture here in Edinburgh, with a fairly huge marketing machine too. They are all over Edinburgh's busiest shopping centre most days.

They are getting a neighbour soon ;)

Gary.
 
Here's an example of an unedited photo, this time with a key light (same as above) and NO light in the background.

Hilite_example_2.jpg
 
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