On the cusp of purchasing my first camera

Messages
12
Name
Richard
Edit My Images
Yes
#1
Hey, I've joined several reddit / Facebook groups as well as this forum to research mirrorless cameras with my budget.

I'm now torn between 2, the Canon m100 + kit lena for £308 (with a BLC discount) or the Panasonic gx80 for £380 with kit lens.

I've been into curry's today to hold m100 and it felt really nice in the hand, was able to grip it well, liked the rubber covering.

There was no gx80 to hold.

I tried the other mirrorless and due to lens positioning I felt I couldn't hold them properly with my left hand. The m100 has some space left of the lens where the button is, where as the others did not.

I really like the case and the rubber wrap around it has, but I'm not a fan of the leather look of the gx80. Of course that doesn't actually affect any of the features though.

£380 is more than I wanted to spend, but many have said the evf on the gx80 is worth it.

As I'm a total beginner, I'm not really sure how these 2 compare, or If I'll like the feel of the gx80, or the evf will be a big difference to me.

I'm looking to pick one of these 2 up tomorrow. Please help me make a decision so I can get going.
Thanks
 
Messages
10,407
Name
Rich
Edit My Images
Yes
#2
Can only comment on the GX80, it's a great little camera and the kit lens is very good too.
The built in stabilisation is a real boon and helps greatly in getting decent photos.
Nothing more off putting for the beginner than out of focus photos ruined by camera shake.
Now available a little bit cheaper here and you get an extra years warranty as well https://www.johnlewis.com/panasonic..._06748572d7f18bea930560a0651f1d29&tmcampid=48
 
Last edited:
Messages
22,415
Name
Phil
Edit My Images
No
#3
You may just be making a decision based on a lack of experience
I tried the other mirrorless and due to lens positioning I felt I couldn't hold them properly with my left hand. The m100 has some space left of the lens where the button is, where as the others did not.
But that’s why you joined.... So
You don’t hold a camera that way! Your left hand should cup the camera from underneath to take the weight (some lenses will really unbalance the camera if you try to hold it by the body) leaving the right hand to use the controls and press the shutter, this is a stable platform enabling sharper images.
 
Messages
1,993
Name
Tom
Edit My Images
Yes
#5
Thanks, any comments on the specs of the cameras for me
I’ve never heard anyone talk about the Canon, just had to google it.

The GX80 is a bargain for the money from what I’ve heard. A very well received camera with great features and IQ. There are also some excellent lenses available for it.
 
Messages
2,660
Name
Richard
Edit My Images
Yes
#9
I'd go for the Panasonic personally, as being a micro four-thirds camera you have far greater lens and body choice further down the road as your skills improve. The EOS M system has always felt like a bit of an afterthought from Canon to me, even more so now they have their full-frame mirrorless line to think about.

And as Phil says, your left hand shouldn't be touching the camera body, it should be underneath the lens supporting that while your right hand grips the camera body.
 
Messages
6,453
Name
Graham
Edit My Images
No
#10
My son, dog, days out, id love to take pictures of wildlife and nature
So long as none of them are moving fast then no problem but if your son and dog are moving at any rate of speed, and also if it's fast moving wildlife (birds etc), then I'm not so sure the GX80 will be able to keep up - or at least it will certainly be a challenge. Have a look at this video and how long it takes to reacquire focus in continuous autofocus mode:



Not sure the Canon M100 would be much better:



You may be better looking at a used DSLR, Something like the Nikon D300s (or Canon equiv) which uses the excellent Multi-CAM 3500DX autofocus system. You can pick a good condition one at £254 and a Nikon AF-S 35mm f/1.8G DX for £99. Total £353. But if determined to go mirrorless then just be aware of the autofocus limitations with fast moving subjects.
 
Messages
1,229
Name
Soeren
Edit My Images
Yes
#11
Something with a viewfinder e.g. The panasonic GX80 or Sony A6000 or......
 
Messages
22,415
Name
Phil
Edit My Images
No
#12
As @gman says above, if you’re planning on getting serious about wildlife, maybe a low end mirrorless isn’t the best first step.

BTW you’re not alone in this, the most common afterthought in ‘new camera’ threads is ‘ooh and a bit of wildlife’, when everything else is an easy ask... but with 6 cameras and a dozen or so lenses, and 30+ years of photography under my belt, I’m neither equipped or capable of ‘a bit of wildlife’.
 
Messages
1,373
Name
Chris
Edit My Images
Yes
#13
My son, dog, days out, id love to take pictures of wildlife and nature
A camera to photograph friends, relatives, and days out can be anywhere between the tiny cheap but surprisingly good purse camera a friend of mine uses all the time, and my own approx £1,000 worth of camera and "Swiss Army Knife" do everything lens, weighting about 1.5Kgs, which is what I carry around when I have no idea what I might photograph, if anything, but just in case a photo opportunity turns up.

Wildlife is even more extreme in the range of possibilities. There's a local park and ponds near me which has squirrels, foxes, and lots of photogenic birds including herons and kingfishers. I went there to try and photograph the kingfisher with £2,000 worth of camera and lens and tripod weighing about 5Kgs in total. (By the way, I'm quoting second hand prices, double them for new.) There were people there trying to photograph the kingfisher with tiny pocket size compact camera with wide range zooms, and three people with such huge heavy gimbal mounted lenses that I doubt whether I could even have carried them for more than five minutes. I chatted to them, and they cast serious doubt on the suitability of my biggest heaviest and most expensive lens for the very difficult problems of photographing wildlife. They'd all tried to make do with the kind of lens I had and had to give up.

On the other hand there was also a group of phone photographers there who were comparing the merits of different phones for photographing kingfishers.
 
Messages
19,090
Name
Alan
Edit My Images
No
#14
I suppose a lot hangs on what the wildlife is and what it's going.

Swifts in flight, gnats at midnight and energetic Frisbee catching dogs could/will be "challenging" but for static wildlife such as the sort of stuff you may see on a walk or day out like birds or squirrels in trees or on the ground, rabbits in the field, deer if you see them and the like etc just about anything may be able to cope and one good thing about the GX80 is that its focus is blisteringly fast for this sort of stuff and the longer lenses are smaller and lighter than those for larger format systems. The 45-150mm for example is very compact.

I think that another consideration should be what output is required. If for example all that's required is a picture to be viewed on screen or even relatively large prints to A4 or so the GX80 will be perfectly ok for whole pictures even at very high ISO levels and at low to middling ISO's pictures of flowers, shells on the beach and other interesting stuff you come across can look very nice indeed even when cropped to 100% so that the object is big in the frame.

I'm not pushing the GX80 per se (other cameras of the same / a similar type are available...) just sayin' that output and viewing circumstance could be important. I usually think it's best to start by thinking "What am I going to take a picture of? How am I going to get that picture? How am I going to look at it?" Once those questions are answered it's relatively easy to decide what kit and settings are the minimum requirement.

For example a squirrel will probably need a high shutter speed (even if they're sat in a tree their heads and hands can still move very fast) which could well mean a higher ISO. Will that be an issue? Possibly not if the squirrel is big enough in the frame so that heavy cropping isn't needed and the picture is to be viewed as a whole picture on screen or when printed to A4 or so.

Sorry for the long reply, hope that helps :D Good luck choosing.
 
OP
OP
N
Messages
12
Name
Richard
Edit My Images
Yes
#15
@woof woof . Thanks, nothing fast, more like close ups, like deer, rabbits ect as you said, also colourful things like flowers or water drops (with the correct lens in future). And images of some nice buildings / alternative angle stuff. Id like a zoom/macro lens in future. I think realistically the m100 is best bet, Purley as I didn't really wanna spend £380
 
Messages
19,090
Name
Alan
Edit My Images
No
#16
You'll be fine although personally I much prefer cameras with a view finder as I don't like back screen shooting. Another option could be scanning the used dealers for a camera with a VF, something like a GX80/Sony A6000. I've seen this sort of thing for sale for about £200.

Just on macro and close up shots. Macro lenses tend to be more on the expensive side and there are a few ways of doing it but if you're just looking at flowers, shells and stuff like that you can always consider using an ordinary lens and cropping the picture later so that the subject fills more of the frame. Another thing you can do with mirrorless cameras is use old film era lenses via a cheap (maybe £10 or so) adapter. Macro and close up photography is very often done with manual focus so the fact that these old lenses don't have auto focus is often no great loss and this can be a cheaper way of doing close up / macro. For example I have a film era 50mm f2.8 macro lens which cost me about £60, add a £10 adapter and it's good to go and considerably cheaper than a modern AF macro lens.

Good luck with this. I'll look forward to seeing your shots...
:D
 
Messages
9,677
Name
Alf
Edit My Images
Yes
#17
Macro is not easy and a viewfinder will be important. The Olympus 60mm f2.8 will work well with the Panasonic.
 
Messages
4,528
Name
Dave
Edit My Images
Yes
#18
@NesiahTM that first camera / lens choice has always been tricky

I still remember my first combo and (allowing for inflation) it was probably more expensive than your £380 choices are now !!!

Here's the important bit though - either of those, or most others for a similar price, are FAR MORE capable of taking good photos than my first one was, so if one fits your hand best just go with that. You'll learn from it as you grow into this amazing hobby, but now, more than ever, how you process your photos has as big an impact as how you shoot them - lots to learn and lots of joy to be had (and frustration too to be fair lol)

Exciting times ahead :)

Dave
 
OP
OP
N
Messages
12
Name
Richard
Edit My Images
Yes
#19
Thanks for all the comments. I've order a Canon m100 in white, as it really felt good to hold. Was within my budget, as many have said, will be capable of taking pictures which will be more than good enough to get me going. Can't wait for it to arrive. Should be Tuesday.
 
Top