Panamoz problems

HoppyUK said:
All it would take to stop grey importing, and maybe throw a life-line to UK dealers, is for HMRC to clobber a few more people and publicise it. Technically, they could confiscate the goods, give you a hefty fine and a criminal record - payment of tax and duty is the buyer's legal responsibility. Nobody would take that risk.
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Technical they can do nothing else than charging the buyer for tax and duty as he can do nothing about the sellers customs declaration - assuming that stuff was not properly declared buy the seller.

Surprisingly, there was not any customs declaration on my Panamoz order at all.

US dealers like B&H and Adorama openly sell perfectly legal grey imports at a discount relative to their officially imported stock. What's being described here is actually, not just technically, smuggling.
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My flat was 5 min away from B&H and they had/have all the time grey market stuff.
 
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HoppyUK said:
And while I'm not taking any kind or moral stance (I've bought grey myself) grey imports are actually illegal. It's a polite word for black market trading, technically it's smuggling. They used to hang smugglers LOL :eek:
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Grey imports aren't illegal, they are legitimate. The import only becomes "unlawful" if when crossing the border the import and VAT isn't paid, or mis-declared, some are some aren't. I have only ever bought two imports and both were fully declared and the correct value was on the outer packaging. Remember, even stuff going through Canon's retail chain is the same until Canon UK pays its duties as it arrives in the UK.

I tend to by all my lenses direct from Amazon now, direct is guaranteed UK stock and its often not much more than an import.
 
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Hi all,

So after a week waiting and going back and forth between TNT and Panamoz, I have finally received my camera.

TNT would not release it until £228 was paid. I told this to Panamoz who immediately refunded me this amount. I then paid TNT and received the camera the next day. On the box, the "value of the goods" inside was $325. I guess I was just unlucky that my delivery was stopped but it is always a risk. Credit to Panamoz though for paying up.
 
mjkent said:
TNT would not release it until £228 was paid. I told this to Panamoz who immediately refunded me this amount. I then paid TNT and received the camera the next day. On the box, the "value of the goods" inside was $325. I guess I was just unlucky that my delivery was stopped but it is always a risk.
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Why did TNT charge you £228 ? (what was the breakdown?)


Glad you got your camera & refund of extra charges. :cool:
 
Looks a very cheap 6D for $325, must have been an excellent exchange rate! :LOL:
 
Honestly I didn't ask how they came about charging £228 and as Panamoz sorted it I'm the end, I'm not that fussed about knowing. It hasn't put me off using then though. Maybe next time I'll just have better luck!
 
mjkent said:
Hi all,

So after a week waiting and going back and forth between TNT and Panamoz, I have finally received my camera.

TNT would not release it until £228 was paid. I told this to Panamoz who immediately refunded me this amount. I then paid TNT and received the camera the next day. On the box, the "value of the goods" inside was $325. I guess I was just unlucky that my delivery was stopped but it is always a risk. Credit to Panamoz though for paying up.
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So Panamoz put the value of the box's contents as $325 while their website says its over £1000... That's some typo!
 
OldCarlos said:
Why did TNT charge you £228 ? (what was the breakdown?)


Glad you got your camera & refund of extra charges. :cool:
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Because even HMRC can read a website, despite Panamoz's illegal value declaration.

£1010 x 20% Vat = £202. The other £26 is presumably TNT's administration costs.
 
DemiLion said:
Because even HMRC can read a website, despite Panamoz's illegal value declaration.

£1010 x 20% Vat = £202. The other £26 is presumably TNT's administration costs.
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Read a website? :confused:
 
OldCarlos said:
Read a website? :confused:
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Well yes. Even the densest import worker is unlikely to believe that a brand new DSlr is sold for $325.

Look at the product. Look at the retail price listed on the suppliers website. Apply VAT.

What's not to like?
 
DemiLion said:
Well yes. Even the densest import worker is unlikely to believe that a brand new DSlr is sold for $325.

Look at the product. Look at the retail price listed on the suppliers website. Apply VAT.

What's not to like?
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But the parcel won't have had obvious signs of what's inside, eg Canon 6D, that's why I asked if the package had been opened to ascertain the contents.
 
A camera would show like a camera on the XRays. What is inside comes after ... and although I have no experience I would say yes they would open it, exactly because the customs declaration would be assumed to fake. Just a little fraud.
 
OldCarlos said:
But the parcel won't have had obvious signs of what's inside, eg Canon 6D, that's why I asked if the package had been opened to ascertain the contents.
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Shouldn't that be on the customs declaration?
 
TLR-330 said:
A camera would show like a camera on the XRays. What is inside comes after ... and although I have no experience I would say yes they would open it, exactly because the customs declaration would be assumed to fake. Just a little fraud.
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Yep, if pulled for a spot check, I totally agree.

Eloise said:
Shouldn't that be on the customs declaration?
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Presumably, but was it?
Or was it declared as `toys` or `gift` or ...........
It was obviously declared fraudulently to try to negate costs.

mjkent said;
mjkent said:
On the box, the "value of the goods" inside was $325.
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There are countless threads about grey imports & they just tend to go round in circles, Ad Nauseam.
Some folk (wanting?) believe they are legit & have said Hong Kong suppliers themselves pay VAT/duty & some don't even believe goods are mis described or undervalued.
 
OldCarlos said:
Yep, if pulled for a spot check, I totally agree.
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Spot check or routine checking of everything coming in from outside the EU, don't know. They can be looking for things other than just customs related stuff.
OldCarlos said:
Some folk (wanting?) believe they are legit & have said Hong Kong suppliers themselves pay VAT/duty & some don't even believe goods are mis described or undervalued.
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It is clearly an attempt of tax evasion (a crime) and the buyers can call it what they like. If Panamoz or anyone else gets hit multiple times there might come a point that they will decide it is not worth their while. Maybe a good profit is still being made after the customs hits, and then if it is the case that some will just get through and some won't.
 
HoppyUK said:
All it would take to stop grey importing, and maybe throw a life-line to UK dealers, is for HMRC to clobber a few more people and publicise it. Technically, they could confiscate the goods, give you a hefty fine and a criminal record - payment of tax and duty is the buyer's legal responsibility. Nobody would take that risk.
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No one is being 'clobbered'. The item has been stopped in transit and payment of duty required. Why should anyone get a hefty fine and a criminal record. This is normal procedure, pay the tax/duty and the item is then forwarded.
 
TLR-330 said:
Consider yourself lucky if they pay. You should be paying the duty and handling charges.
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Panamoz will pay. Although these fees are the responsibility of the importer (in this case the purchaser) Panamoz sold the item with the proviso that theynwill pay all duty and taxes. This happens fairly regularly and they do pay.
 
odd jim said:
Grey imports aren't illegal, they are legitimate. The import only becomes "unlawful" if when crossing the border the import and VAT isn't paid, or mis-declared, some are some aren't. I have only ever bought two imports and both were fully declared and the correct value was on the outer packaging. Remember, even stuff going through Canon's retail chain is the same until Canon UK pays its duties as it arrives in the UK.

I tend to by all my lenses direct from Amazon now, direct is guaranteed UK stock and its often not much more than an import.
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From both experiences with HDEW and Panomoz they never declare the correct value on the outer packaging.
 
JJ! said:
From both experiences with HDEW and Panomoz they never declare the correct value on the outer packaging.
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HDEW ship from within the UK and provide a VAT receipt. Why would they need to declare the value of the package?
 
DemiLion said:
HDEW ship from within the UK and provide a VAT receipt. Why would they need to declare the value of the package?
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HDEW need to get the gear in to the country first, and i doubt they do that using the same channels Park Cameras do ;-)

Not that im complaining though.
 
dave_bass5 said:
HDEW need to get the gear in to the country first, and i doubt they do that using the same channels Park Cameras do ;-)

Not that im complaining though.
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I would be remarkably careful about making any comment that could be seen as defamatory unless you have proof!
From my understanding they parallel import via Europe.
 
Ok, i dont have proof, but all im saying is they sell at the same price (give or take a few £) as all the other grey importers. Why dont WEX, Park Camera's etc charge as little as they do if its all above board? Sure, the customer is buying from a Uk based company, so everything is above board as far as that goes, but to be able to sell so low something isnt right.

Also the equipment brought from HDEW is not eligible for UK cash back schemes. Seems strange if you are buying UK stock ;-)
 
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DemiLion said:
HDEW ship from within the UK and provide a VAT receipt. Why would they need to declare the value of the package?
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True, I did forget they shipped to HDEW first before shipping to customers, my bad!

My HDEW cameras have all been HK versions I believe.
 
JJ! said:
From both experiences with HDEW and Panomoz they never declare the correct value on the outer packaging.
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Mine was with DigitalRev. I'm sure its inconsistent though.
 
Buckyball said:
Because they simply rip-off customers in this country?
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What a ludicrous statement.

WEX (& others) have expensive business premises & showrooms. They employ staff & pay their way, unlike many importers who don't even need stock & can be run from a back bedroom.
 
OldCarlos said:
What a ludicrous statement.

WEX (& others) have expensive business premises & showrooms. They employ staff & pay their way, unlike many importers who don't even need stock & can be run from a back bedroom.
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Totally agree, and Ive seen prices lower on Park Cameras than some of the grey market places when there are cash backs and sales on. Grey isnt always cheaper.
 
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