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JohnBradbury

JohnBradbury

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Morning all,
I'm looking to purchase a 1DX Mark II and the price difference between UK retailers and Panamoz is significant (+£1800). On the face of it this seems a no-brainer but is there anything I should be aware of before ordering?


I know Panamoz have a good reputation.
 
Looks like a question that divides TalkPhotography.

Panamoz have been around long enough that I trust I'll get the item etc... My biggest concerns are the warranty, the import duties (I wouldn't seek to avoid UK taxes or duties), and potential recall issues.

The website says that all taxes will be paid, presumably that includes import duty? Although they also state that they have a UK based distribution warehouse, so if that's the case the point should be mute.
 
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Brought my Nikon D750 -24-120 combo from them , no issues at all. My lens developed a fault , phoned them up they said get a price from Nikon for repair . sent them the quote they paid the money straight into my account . I would have no problems using them again. Gray does not bother me with that kind of service.
 
Another happy Panamoz customer here.
 
Great fast service with excellent communications,not to mention great prices.bring it on :rolleyes:
 
Panamoz have a good rep and there are some very good deals to be had from time to time. When manufacturers need to reduce stock they often use the grey supply chain, basically 'dumping' it with savings above the usual 20% VAT (plus duty on lenses). But be assured that this is tax fraud.

The package will be marked as something like a toy or gift from China with a very low declared value like $15. It will probably sail through without any problems but in the unlikely event that it does get checked it will be liable for VAT at least and since you are actually the importer, you are responsible for that but Panamos will pick up the tab (as a cost of doing business).

You will have no UK warranty and you should also be aware that unpaid tax may be claimed at any time, eg when you come back through customs on holiday.
 
JohnBradbury said:
The website says that all taxes will be paid, presumably that includes import duty?
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If it really states that, then they are lying. I suspect that it actually says that all import duties will be covered - which is a very different thing.
 
HoppyUK said:
Panamoz have a good rep and there are some very good deals to be had from time to time. When manufacturers need to reduce stock they often use the grey supply chain, basically 'dumping' it with savings above the usual 20% VAT (plus duty on lenses). But be assured that this is tax fraud.

The package will be marked as something like a toy or gift from China with a very low declared value like $15. It will probably sail through without any problems but in the unlikely event that it does get checked it will be liable for VAT at least and since you are actually the importer, you are responsible for that but Panamos will pick up the tab (as a cost of doing business).

You will have no UK warranty and you should also be aware that unpaid tax may be claimed at any time, eg when you come back through customs on holiday.
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that is a bit of a wild statement to make!!!

Even "grey" imports change hands and import duty may have been paid by a previous owner, that is if customs have time to check every bit of equipment from every passenger off say a ship with 3,000 passengers on board.

Are you suggesting all serial numbers are checked on cameras and lenses????

Also it is not classed tax fraud but tax evasion
How would they even know if the camera is an exchange one from a returned faulty "grey"import" where duty has already been paid??

On all the holidays i have had abroad this has never happened, the only time my bag was opened was because i had a rocket blower in it and it looked like a hand grenade on the x-ray
 
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The discount was tempting but I hadn't realised that this essentially avoided UK import duties. Whilst I would never judge someone else for going that route it's not something I personally was comfortable with and thankfully the wife and I are in a position where it wouldn't break the bank either way.

I purchased from my local camera shop this afternoon (Wilkinson Cameras - Liverpool) along with a 24-70 F2.8 L. By the time you calculate the cash back discounts it will have cost me around £1300 more for purchasing in the UK on the highstreet.

1DX_MarkII.jpeg
 
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JohnBradbury said:
The discount was tempting but I hadn't realised that this essentially avoided UK import duties. Whilst I would never judge someone else for going that route it's not something I personally was comfortable with and thankfully the wife and I are in a position where it wouldn't break the bank either way.

I purchased from my local camera shop this afternoon (Wilkinson Cameras - Liverpool) along with a 24-70 F2.8 L. By the time you calculate the cash back discounts it will have cost me around £1300 more for purchasing in the UK on the highstreet.

View attachment 125966
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Kudos to you John.

But I have to say I’d have gone with the saving.
 
Well done you! I don't think you'll be disappointed with the camera.
 
realspeed said:
that is a bit of a wild statement to make!!!

Even "grey" imports change hands and import duty may have been paid by a previous owner, that is if customs have time to check every bit of equipment from every passenger off say a ship with 3,000 passengers on board.

Are you suggesting all serial numbers are checked on cameras and lenses????

Also it is not classed tax fraud but tax evasion
How would they even know if the camera is an exchange one from a returned faulty "grey"import" where duty has already been paid??

On all the holidays i have had abroad this has never happened, the only time my bag was opened was because i had a rocket blower in it and it looked like a hand grenade on the x-ray
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I'm not saying it's likely that you'll get pulled at a later date, but it's possible - it happened to me. If customs get a sniff of something suspicious it's up to you to prove otherwise and the easiest way is to show a UK or EU receipt with VAT. Although I was okay in the end, I spent a few very unpleasant hours proving my case. In that time, it was made very clear what the penalties were - confiscation, fine, criminal record etc.

TBH I'm fairly ambivalent about the whole grey issue and can see both sides, but there are significant risks involved. The fact that so many people do it and get away with it doesn't diminish the crime (for that's what it is) or the penalties.
 
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HoppyUK said:
I'm not saying it's likely that you'll get pulled at a later date, but it's possible - it happened to me. If customs get a sniff of something suspicious it's up to you to prove otherwise and the easiest way is to show a UK or EU receipt with VAT. Although I was okay in the end, I spent a few very unpleasant hours proving my case. In that time, it was made very clear what the penalties were - confiscation, fine, criminal record etc.

TBH I'm fairly ambivalent about the whole grey issue and can see both sides, but there are significant risks involved. The fact that so many people do it and get away with it doesn't diminish the crime (for that's what it is) or the penalties.
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Panamoz say they will pay all tax and duty. So if you do end up with a bill from customs, Panamoz will cover it.
 
dave_bass5 said:
One thing ive not seen mentioned is the 3 year local warranty Panamoz offer. Even if the price was the same as a UK high street store I’d still go for a longer warranty.
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Canon must have an offer on because I got a 3 year warranty on both the body and lens from Wilkinson Cameras.
 
dave_bass5 said:
One thing ive not seen mentioned is the 3 year local warranty Panamoz offer. Even if the price was the same as a UK high street store I’d still go for a longer warranty.
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Having just used their warranty on a one year old Olympus Em1ii, I was very impressed. The other thing about the warranty is that it is transferrable so valuable when you come to sell your equipment on,
 
HoppyUK said:
I'm not saying it's likely that you'll get pulled at a later date, but it's possible - it happened to me. If customs get a sniff of something suspicious it's up to you to prove otherwise and the easiest way is to show a UK or EU receipt with VAT. Although I was okay in the end, I spent a few very unpleasant hours proving my case. In that time, it was made very clear what the penalties were - confiscation, fine, criminal record etc.

TBH I'm fairly ambivalent about the whole grey issue and can see both sides, but there are significant risks involved. The fact that so many people do it and get away with it doesn't diminish the crime (for that's what it is) or the penalties.
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Are you suggesting that everybody that goes on holiday takes a VAT invoice for their camera? Phone / Tablet? Hell why not the clothes on their back?
 
ecoleman said:
Are you suggesting that everybody that goes on holiday takes a VAT invoice for their camera? Phone / Tablet? Hell why not the clothes on their back?
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This is exactly what I was thinking. People are free to chose if they want to go down this route of course and I can't add any value to this by giving my views on it, but the scaremongering by some who disagree with grey imports is quite amusing sometimes.
 
Why not, he basically said £1300 is no big deal to him so he is likely a high earner and feels more comfortable the way he has done it.
 
ecoleman said:
Are you suggesting that everybody that goes on holiday takes a VAT invoice for their camera? Phone / Tablet? Hell why not the clothes on their back?
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Yes. I do, for anything that I think might catch the customs officer's eye. Just a photocopy I keep with other travel documents.

That's probably got more to do with my own experience at the hands of HMRC (outlined above) but it's a possibility. We have an amazing talent for overlooking uncomfortable facts when there's a few quid to be saved but importing stuff without paying VAT is illegal, it's your responsibility and the crime doesn't go away. Saying to customs "don't worry, Panamoz will pay. Now give me my camera back and I'll be on my way" won't work.

Call it scaremongering if it helps, but I'm not making any judgement - just pointing out the facts.

Edit: when I got stopped, coming in from the US which at the time was the main route for greys, I obviously looked a bit dodgy and had a lot of brand new and expensive gear (on loan from Canon) so I guess I was a bit of a target. But today, if flying in from East Asia or similar I'd definitely advise taking VAT receipts (it's hardly difficult) for camera gear and anything else shiny and obviously new like that expensive watch ;) The chances of getting stopped may be slim, but if your number comes up and they smell a rat, they will take you apart.
 
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Has anybody here ever driven above 70mph?? I imagine some/most have done once in their lifetime.... so a illegal practice. @HoppyUK have you every participated in speeding? ;)
I am sure those who buy grey / imported goods which haven't been stung for the VAT won't be losing sleep over it but I can see why VAT needs to paid.
The system doesn't seem to catch everybody in that its very easy to avoid paying VAT.

For the record I am self-employed and the amount of VAT I pay is crazy! My last VAT bill was over £6.5k :(
 
Riz_Guru said:
Has anybody here ever driven above 70mph?? I imagine some/most have done once in their lifetime.... so a illegal practice.
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Since we're going for silly analogies, not at all - it depends where you do it. Perfectly legal to go faster in places in Europe, and as for racetracks and private runways...
sorry for the old iphone photo
140256548.jpg


However, I'd be quite right to point out the risks of what may happen if anything was to go wrong...
 
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Riz_Guru said:
Fair point, surely I should get something for collecting it on their behalf though :D lol
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You do, it's called the right to claim back the VAT you spend on any relevant and qualifying business related expenditure! :D
 
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Mr Badger said:
You do, it's called the right to claim back the VAT you spend on any relevant business related expenses! :D
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Or, he sold £32,500 of goods at a nice profit.
 
Byker28i said:
Since we're going for silly analogies, not at all - it depends where you do it. Perfectly legal to go faster in places in Europe, and as for racetracks and private runways...
sorry for the old iphone photo
140256548.jpg


However, I'd be quite right to point out the risks of what may happen if anything was to go wrong...
Click to expand...

It was not illegal when I started driving in the late 50's no speed Limits on the M1 when it opened.
 
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