"Panasonic G series" Owners Thread

What killed the GX7 and the G7 for me was shutter shock although I also hated the grip on the G7. The GX80 is IMO a much better camera for that simple reason although the GX9 is possibly a more direct replacement for the GX7.

On small apertures, the decision I suppose comes down to a balance between depth and image quality and if a very small aperture is required for the depth you're trying to get and the image quality is acceptable then fair enough but I do think the depth you're aiming for has to be kept in mind and there is I suppose an image quality payoff in not using an aperture which will give you depth beyond what you actually need.

Other than that, this might be of interest. I've not come across this guy before and he does machine gun the talk but I like him...

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHCe8wNIVxw
 
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woof woof said:
When killed the GX7 and the G7 for me was shutter shock
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I still don't understand this shutter shock thing - the images from my GX7 are adequately sharp and I generally use all my kit on automatic settings, so I use a wide range of speeds.

I also use GH2, G5, G9 and GM5s with no sign of vibration due to the shutter. 'Tis a puzzle... :thinking:
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
I still don't understand this shutter shock thing - the images from my GX7 are adequately sharp and I generally use all my kit on automatic settings, so I use a wide range of speeds.

I also use GH2, G5, G9 and GM5s with no sign of vibration due to the shutter. 'Tis a puzzle... :thinking:
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OK. I'll explain.

Shutter shock can occur if you use a camera which can induce it with a lens which is susceptible, it's a combination thing. It also only occurs with the mechanical shutter and in a specific shutter speed range, I can't remember exactly what the range is but lets pretend it's between 1/50 and 1/200. Something like that. So, if you use an affected body and a susceptible lens with the mechanical shutter between 1/50 and 1/200 you can get shutter shock. It can show as anything from a slightly soft image to an obviously soft image to even a double image. I've seen it all and the first time I saw it it was obvious and shot ruining for me and I had a real WTF moment and I thought the lens was complete garbage. It wasn't and it isn't, it's actually quite good as I found when I tried it on a different camera and got better results and that made me investigate what was going on and why.

One possible fix is to switch to the electronic shutter but that can give a rolling shutter effect with fast moving subjects and it can also give banding under flickering artificial lighting. You can possibly avoid the problem shutter speed range but good luck with that if shooting indoors and wanting to exceed the upper limit of the shutter shock range. This is what killed it for me as when shooting indoors at social events, family gatherings, days out at interesting places and the like the electronic shutter can be useless because of the risk of banding and if using the mechanical shutter I'd be smack bang in the affected shutter speed range. You can always avoid affected lenses but I've never seen a definitive list of them and I was amazed to find that my ancient Minolta Rokkor 50mm f1.2 clearly showed shutter shock.

If you don't have an affected camera you wont see this. If you don't have affected lenses you wont see this. If you have an unaffected camera and susceptible lenses you wont see this. If you only use the electronic shutter you'll never see this but you may see rolling shutter or banding. If you don't use susceptible lenses you'll never see this but buying a new lens could be a lottery. If you've got an affected camera and lens combination but you're the sort of person who doesn't see issues which are obvious to others you may never notice this.

If you've never seen shutter shock you're probably in that paragraph somewhere.

All in all shutter shock was a killer for me as lenses I wanted to use clearly, repeatedly and demonstrably showed the effect and personally I think it's an utter disgrace that Panasonic have never come clean and explained what kit is affected. They even continued to sell affected camera and lens combinations as kits when the effect was widely identified.

Panasonic aren't the only manufacturer selling kit afflicted with shutter shock, it's something to watch for with other camera and lens combinations too.
 
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woof woof said:
OK. I'll explain.
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I know what shutter shock looks like. I'm saying I haven't noticed on any of the Panasonc cameras I'm using.
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
I know what shutter shock looks like. I'm saying I haven't noticed on any of the Panasonc cameras I'm using.
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Good for you but you should accept that it is a very real issue and an issue which can be easily and repeatedly demonstrated with affected kit.

This isn't something I or anyone else has dreamed up and it isn't a baseless internet panic it's a real thing and if you've never seen it it's because your kit isn't affected or you use the electronic shutter or you simply don't notice it.
 
I'd never heard of him. He seems to machine gun the talk but I do like his style and enthusiasm.
 
woof woof said:
if you've never seen it it's because your kit isn't affected or you use the electronic shutter or you simply don't notice it.
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I'm just lucky I guess. :naughty:
 
I was sceptical until I had the misfortune of buying a Sony A7R Mk1.
 
Stephen L said:
I was sceptical until I had the misfortune of buying a Sony A7R Mk1.
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Have you a sample or two to share? I'd like to see the symptoms people are experiencing.
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
I'm just lucky I guess. :naughty:
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Andrew, if you have a GX7 that is an affected camera. I know as I was unlucky enough to own one along with the equally affected G7. I saw the problem and I did my research and testing but even these affected cameras are fine as long as you don't mount a susceptible lens. The problem is knowing which are affected and which aren't. I don't know if your other cameras and lenses are affected or not but if you're interested you can Google them and I'd certainly advise you to do that if you think about buying anymore lenses.

I don't why you are SS free, at the moment, if you actually are. If you haven't seen SS it's because you use the electronic shutter or your lenses are not the ones that are affected or you have it and just don't notice it.

The one good thing that Panasonic did was redesign the shutter mechanism to prevent this in later cameras like the GX80 and GX9 I now have. They are thankfully SS free but have the disadvantage of being limited to 1/4,000 with the mechanical shutter although the electronic one can be set to automatically kick in when faster speeds are required.
 
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I noticed shutter shock with my Panasonic GX1, thankfully I replaced it with the GX80. If you don't view your images at 100% when editing, there is a good chance you've not noticed it.
 
Unfortunately I used to see it in whole pictures but I do understand that some people don't. It always surprises me a bit when people can't see things I see easily. One of my pet hates is walking into a room and seeing someone watching TV in the wrong mode and they don't notice. Some people just seem to have different levels of awareness but it could be that I'm just a hard core geek :D

With SS I've seen everything from slight softness to a slight double image.
 
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AndrewFlannigan said:
Have you a sample or two to share? I'd like to see the symptoms people are experiencing.
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Sorry, no. I always delete iffy pictures, and I pretty quickly got rid of the camera. It just manifested itself as an out-of-focus shot right across the frame irrespective of where the focus point had been. I since found out that this model of camera was known for it. Not seen the issue on any cameras before or since.
 
woof woof said:
I don't why you are SS free, at the moment, if you actually are. If you haven't seen SS it's because you use the electronic shutter or your lenses are not the ones that are affected or you have it and just don't notice it.
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...or I just don't have it. That would be the most likely reason, wouldn't it?
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
...or I just don't have it. That would be the most likely reason, wouldn't it?
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You have an affected camera. I know that because you say you have a GX7 and like it or not the GX7 is an affected camera when used with the mechanical shutter in the affected shutter speed range and when used with an affected lens. That much is undeniable.

I don't know about your lenses and I'm not going to spend time looking into your kit. It's your gear not mine and frankly this is going going nowhere so I'm wasting no more time with you on this with you as if this goes on for one more post you'll be blaming Brexit :D
 
woof woof said:
so I'm wasting no more time with you on this with you as if this goes on for one more post you'll be blaming Brexit :D
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Naw, I'll just blame your fixation on persuading me I have a problem that I don't have. :tumbleweed:
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
Naw, I'll just blame your fixation on persuading me I have a problem that I don't have. :tumbleweed:
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I have had earlier Olympus cameras which were reported as having shutter shock. But on those I myself never experienced the effect, so it never bothered me. I only worry about things which do affect my photos, not those which might but don’t.
 
My first E-M1 was terrible for shutter shock, took it back for a refund.

I got another one after they introduced the anti shock firmware to correct it.
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
Naw, I'll just blame your fixation on persuading me I have a problem that I don't have. :tumbleweed:
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Sorry for the delay as I haven't been in this thread for a while.

Andrew, I'm pleased for you that you've never seen shutter shock but if you think this isn't an issue people should be aware of your off your rocker.
 
woof woof said:
if you think this isn't an issue people should be aware of your off your rocker.
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How can I be "off my rocker" if I use several of the cameras you claim have a problem and I state that I haven't observed that problem? :thinking:

Because I don't share your opinion is no reason to be insulting.
 
Happier stuff.

Firstly, there's no criticism of the seller here as the issue I found could be easily missed and me and the seller agreed on a price that I hope we're both happy with.

I've fancied a GM5 for some time but they're rare and expensive so when one cropped up on the forum I was a happy buyer. When it arrived I noticed that images were affected by a blizzard of sensor contamination some of which showed up at f1.7. Cleaning the sensor got rid of some marks but others just wouldn't shift and were more clearly defined than I'd expect a normal dust bunny to be so this coupled with the contamination showing up at f1.7 lead me to suspect that the contamination was in fact under the sensor glass and therefore not something I could fix. I contacted a repairer and they quoted £144 which I thought reasonable so off it went for professional help..

The repair engineer later rang me to discuss the issue and said that he'd got it as clean as he could but that two spots were still visible at f22. As I don't intend to use that small an aperture I said I was happy, paid the bill and sat back to wait for the camera to arrive back. When it did I tested it to f8 and saw no contamination at all so I'm more than happy as I'll be using this camera mostly from wide open to f5.6.

Some bad news is that unfortunately the engineer said that this is a known issue with some Panasonic cameras as the rubber seal isn't too good and there's nothing he could do to improve it due to limited space. The good news is that IMO £144 is reasonable for the repair and I did expect it to be more. I suppose there is a risk that this could happen again in time but I'm happy enough.

I've bought a 20mm f1.7's and a 14mm f2.5 to go with this camera. I've had two 20mm's before, a MK1 and a MK2, which I think might have both come with cameras. I don't really rate the lens and I think that the Oly 18mm f1.8 is a better lens but the 20mm is more compact so I went for another.

Home grown. 20mm, f2.5.

3b8lEnk.jpg


Todays crop. 20mm, f4.

okFFuzU.jpg
 
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AndrewFlannigan said:
How can I be "off my rocker" if I use several of the cameras you claim have a problem and I state that I haven't observed that problem? :thinking:

Because I don't share your opinion is no reason to be insulting.
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Because it's not my opinion Andrew. It's fact.

I just don't understand why you keep stressing that you've never seen this issue. You must somewhere in your mind accept that it's a real issue and you must know that if you haven't seen it it's for one of the reasons I stated above.

It's not as if this is a variation issue like some lenses being sharper than others and some being decentred or it only affecting some camera bodies. This is a known design issue and something that Panasonic did recognise and redesign the shutter to correct.

You really do seem to be in denial over this and I just don't understand why. Some kit has real issues, I see nothing wrong in highlighting them especially if doing so can help others either work around the issue or avoid it.
 
Hi guys

Anyone got any experience of, or thoughts on, the Pana 14-140mm ... small, lightweight walkarounder for my GX80?

I'm kinda wondering if it will nicely replace both the Pana 12-60 and the Pana 45-150, both of which I'm pleased with, but, I go out with one and sometime not enough reach, I go out with the other and sometimes not wide enough.
 
woof woof said:
woof woof said:
You really do seem to be in denial over this
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Firstly: I'm fed up with your insults, so I'm putting you on ignore.

Secondly: You're quite right, I deny that I've seen what you describe as "shutter shock" in any of the images I've produced from several Panasonic and Olympus cameras.

Thirdly: I did get a strange effect from one of my GM5s on a single occasion. Perhaps you can come up with an explanation but frankly, I don't want to know...

Cars passing under railway bridge Cowick Street Exeter GM5 _1050041.jpg
 
d00d said:
Hi guys

Anyone got any experience of, or thoughts on, the Pana 14-140mm ... small, lightweight walkarounder for my GX80?

I'm kinda wondering if it will nicely replace both the Pana 12-60 and the Pana 45-150, both of which I'm pleased with, but, I go out with one and sometime not enough reach, I go out with the other and sometimes not wide enough.
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I tried a friend's 14-140 for a few days, I wasn't really impressed tbh. I would just swap lenses unless you're willing to take the hit in image quality.
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
Firstly: I'm fed up with your insults, so I'm putting you on ignore.

Secondly: You're quite right, I deny that I've seen what you describe as "shutter shock" in any of the images I've produced from several Panasonic and Olympus cameras.

Thirdly: I did get a strange effect from one of my GM5s on a single occasion. Perhaps you can come up with an explanation but frankly, I don't want to know...

View attachment 333804
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Well thank God for that.

I only persisted with you out of some bizarre sense of politeness, and now I wont have to :D
 
woof woof said:
Well thank God for that.

I only persisted with you out of some bizarre sense of politeness, and now I wont have to :D
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How strange. I've also never seen (noticed) it. However I don't deny it's an issue.
Amazingly my manhood seems quite intact.
 
I spent a lot of time testing lenses and trying to research this issue before giving up. A list of affected lenses from Panasonic would have been such a help as people could have then avoided it but as far as I know there isn't one, or if there is I haven't seen it, and then there's the issue of adapted lenses and I obviously wouldn't expect Panasonic to look into those.

I might never have noticed it as most of my lenses didn't show it but a lens I really wanted to use was affected, the 14-42mm G Vario, and of course I use old lenses a lot and at the time I was taking quite a few pictures indoors so it became an issue I was aware of (because I'd read about it) which didn't affect me to an issue which made a lens I wanted to use pretty much unusable under some circumstances, ie. indoors at social events under artificial lighting. I wanted that lens as it's so small and versatile, perfect really for use on a small camera. I can't recommend that lens enough as it's tiny and usable from wide open the only downside (apart from SS) being the f3.5-5.6 aperture but that's what makes it so small.

And as above, Panasonic aren't the only company to have released cameras that induce shutter shock.

The IMO worth looking at 14-42mm G Vario...

H1DuJoU.jpg


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ndcjxuZ.jpg


arLn7bI.jpg


I did buy a new camera just to use his lens on :D
 
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Cockney said:
How strange. I've also never seen (noticed) it. However I don't deny it's an issue.
Amazingly my manhood seems quite intact.
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Indeed. If someone has a problem, they have a problem. If someone doesn't have a problem, they don't have a problem. It's that complicated...
 
I was a shutter-shock naysayer, despite having owned all brands of mirrorless, till I had a Sony A7R Mk1. That camera was diabolical at the speeds I normally used.
 
Stephen L said:
I was a shutter-shock naysayer, despite having owned all brands of mirrorless, till I had a Sony A7R Mk1. That camera was diabolical at the speeds I normally used.
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Exactly.

So far, I've never seen it.
 
Cockney said:
But even so. It exisists.
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"exisistsence" (or even existence) is always debatable until you meet it face to face. Until then, it's a theory. :popcorn:
 
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