Panasonic GF1 or Canon G12,

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Marky67

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I am looking for some advice, looking for a small camera to carry around every day, a camera which will give me the feel and controls of my Nikon if I need it in a small package, also the ability to take a lot of indoor shots with good quality at high iso is important;) I will be mostly be shooting in jpeg., I had short listed the Panasonic LX5 and the Samsung EX1, I have had a look at them both, but then came across the Panasonic GF1 and the Canon G12 in store at Jessops, I love the feel of both of them, which one will be better for my needs? I need a smallish camera that both me and my wife can use with ease without having to get out the SLR! I already have a Nikon D200 which I am still trying to learn after 2 years! I tried the GF1 with the fixed 20mm lens and the controls menu etc felt fantastic, then I tried the Canon G12, which also felt superb:bonk: which one would you recommend?


Many thanks

Mark
 
What zoom range do you need?

You need to compare the GF1 with a zoom on it as it becomes a very different size when you do...

GF1 v G12

Quality or size?

Camera bag v Jacket pocket

if I have to carry a bag, I will take an SLR every time...
 
mipevo6 said:
What zoom range do you need?

You need to compare the GF1 with a zoom on it as it becomes a very different size when you do...

GF1 v G12

Quality or size?

Camera bag v Jacket pocket

if I have to carry a bag, I will take an SLR every time...
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I have never seen the GF1 with a zoom on it, but this camera has to be portable, I understand what you are saying regarding it will be a different animal with the zoom on it, but I am thinking I could get the best of both worlds out of it, by keep the pancake lens on it as standard for the wife then when I want to use it I have the choice of adding a zoom;)

The camera will be used for shooting everything, it will be used for indoor to outdoor to landscapes to portraits, HD video is also an advantage, but quality of photographic images comes first.

What do you think?
 
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an example...

first picture here

It becomes very SLR like with a zoom on. You have to carry 2 lenses or be stuck at 40mm and have to zoom with your feet. It isn't that much more portable than a dSLR as far as I am concerned with any kind of decent zoom lens on.

The picture quality of the gf1 looks pretty good from the shots I have seen (long thread around here somewhere).

SLR = best quality - least portable
4/3 - good quality - weighs less than a dSLR
G12 - good enough quality - very portable

I bought an Lx5 to supplement my 7D, pretty pleased with it overall.

Good luck with the research
 
Hi Mark, We have both GF-1 and G10 as training cameras. I've also used G11 and would summarise -

G series great for landscapes and slow moving subjects, has slow operation, impossible to defocus backgrounds in normal circumstances. Ok up to 400 iso with G11 and G12 I assume, Lumpy in pocket, perhaps S95 (not tried) is a better carry anywhere option.

Gf-1 One of our trainers, and the camera I take when I have a weekend away. Almost irresistable to use, get 20mm lens and metal Voigtlander (35mm focal length) optical viewfinder to use in bright light. Keep 20mm lens on in baggy pocket and carry 14-45mm (superb optically) in other pocket. Lovely images with much more depth and DSLR feel than G series. F1.7 allows indoor shooting without flash.

G11 has ghastly plastic surrounded flippy flappy screen, not sure about G12.

All the best John
 
My GF1 still easily fits in my jacket pocket with the 14-45mm zoom - but it is much more compact with the 20mm on. I don't find the 20mm (40mm equivalent) fixed lens too much of a problem the vast majority of the time, and the quality is really amazing.

Have a look at my flickr for some examples if you like - all were taken with either the GF1 or G1.
 
mipevo6 said:
It becomes very SLR like with a zoom on.
Click to expand...

Was in the local Panasonic shop the other day and was surprised by how big the GF1 actually was.
Most pictures of the camera I'v seen have been just of the camera and it looks tiny but in reality, not so much.
Quite a good thing actually as it's totally cancelled my desire to own one which I can't afford to right not anyway.
 
I reckon it all comes down to how portable you want the camera to be - I have an old G9 which is a fantastic take everywhere camera. It fits in a largish pocket, and delivers excellent image quality as long as I keep the ISO down. In my quest for a camera which is more portable than a full sie DSLR but better than the G9 at high ISO I have been through a MFT cameras but they tend to not get enough use and get sold on. That said I do love the results they give and have just ordered another one! If size matters go for the G12, if you will be happy to carry a bit more bulk then the GF1 will give better images at anything above ISO 200.
 
I think everyone has a different size to hassle ratio (or something). I have a G1 too and it's a very nice camera but I don't consider it 'pocketable'. The GF1 with 20mm is very pocketable and goes everywhere with me. For some people even that is too bulky to take everywhere.
 
Well I've got a similar(ish) line up already so might be able to help.
My D90 (and lenses) tend to go with me to Motorsport or other organised events where I have lots of preparation time.
My GF1 is prepacked in a small Crumpler bag and/or into a "man bag" for those times when i think there may be good opportunities but I don't want to lug an slr about.
My S90 is pretty much always in a coat/bag pocket and is my day to day point and click. I accept that the images might not be of the same quality as the GF1 or D90 but there is still a fair bit of control possible with the S90 and portability is a key factor.
 
My GF1 and 20mm f1.7 fits in an inside jacket pocket and if you're happy with the size and the prime lens I think it's the way to go as you'll get near SLR image quality and good control over depth of field and the creative opportunities that a tiny sensor camera just can't match.

I think that this combination works very well as a modern equivalent to the sort of quality 35mm jobbies we had years ago and soz to Gxx users but I don't believe that they can compete on image quality with MFT.
 
also the ability to take a lot of indoor shots with good quality at high iso is important
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Don't waste your money, seriously neither will do the job that well with the GF1 being the worst of the two at doing it as at least the G12 still has an optical finder for low light.

I had both the G1 and G11, the G1 was abysmal in low light, not so much how it handled it noise wise, but the fact that I couldn't see what I was shooting properly cos the EVF and rear screen hated low light.
For indoor low light a small DSLR wins hands down every time.

For a small walkabout camera, either will do the job but as said the GF1's larger sensor will help and give it the edge.
Don't overlook the olympus pen either, its a damn good little camera.
If getting either with the kit zoom, get the 14-45, its sharper than the 14-42 and remember the crop factor is 2X on M43 camera's so thats a 28-90mm zoom equivalent. So though a 20mm might seem tiny, its in fact really a 40mm.
Finally I can fit a 500D and 50mm in a jacket pocket and its as light as a feather as well, worth thinking about.
 
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Don't waste your money, seriously neither will do the job that well with the GF1 being the worst of the two.
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Strongly disagree with this. I've taken loads of low light pics with the G1 and GF1 and get paid to do so - never found using the EVF or the screen a problem. The only time the screen is a problem is in VERY bright sunlight.

5112248498_9fedd9a911_z.jpg


5112213060_f582a1821c_z.jpg
 
iancandler said:
Don't waste your money, seriously neither will do the job that well with the GF1 being the worst of the two at doing it as at least the G12 still has an optical finder for low light.
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Disagree. Have you actually used a GF-1?

I have the 20mm kit and the camera is used extensively and almost exclusively indoors. Noise is very well controlled and of course the 20mm F1.7 lens just sucks up the light.
 
Yup. Same here. I have no problems at all seeing the screen on my GF1 even outside on a bright day and if the 20mm is the lens of choice you can always fit an optical finder. Low light problems have never even crossed my mind.
 
Only time ive had trouble seeing the screen on the GF1 is when i've been shooting Infra-Red. The filter makes it a little tricky to see in bright sunshine but other than that, no problems at all.
Been using one with just a 20mm lens for nigh on a year now. Done me fine.
 
Well, Im biased being a micro four thirds man, but I wouldn't really describe the GF1 as being portable, but then it literally depends how deep your pockets are.
:)
But Gf1 over the canon anyday, and as others have said, there are no light level issues with the G camera's.
 
grum said:
Strongly disagree with this. I've taken loads of low light pics with the G1 and GF1 and get paid to do so - never found using the EVF or the screen a problem. The only time the screen is a problem is in VERY bright sunlight.

5112248498_9fedd9a911_z.jpg


5112213060_f582a1821c_z.jpg
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Where these pictures taken with the 20mm pancake?
 
Top one is 20mm pancake, bottom one with a Canon FD 50mm 1.4 MF lens with adapter.

Yes that's right, I managed to manually focus at f1.4 despite the terrible viewfinder/screen :)
 
Danny_Two said:
Well, Im biased being a micro four thirds man, but I wouldn't really describe the GF1 as being portable, but then it literally depends how deep your pockets are.
:)
But Gf1 over the canon anyday, and as others have said, there are no light level issues with the G camera's.
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Have you compared the 2 cameras side by side Danny, or is it a no brainer to go with the G1 with the bigger sensor?
 
Marky67 said:
Have you compared the 2 cameras side by side Danny, or is it a no brainer to go with the G1 with the bigger sensor?
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I have, I dont think the Gf1 is much smaller, its only the grip and viewfinder that make the G1 bit more bulky. Saying that the GF1 is nice and I don't think you would regret it, especially with the 20mm, but if you start putting on bigger lenses you're back to a full size camera.

Have a play with an LX3/5 if you can, that's what Id describe as portable.
 
RichardtheSane said:
Disagree. Have you actually used a GF-1?

I have the 20mm kit and the camera is used extensively and almost exclusively indoors. Noise is very well controlled and of course the 20mm F1.7 lens just sucks up the light.
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Yes owned one with the standard zoom & a G1, 45-200 and the leica macro, under 60 watt room lights it was abysmal, focus was awful for hunting and slow even with the firmware updates for both lenses and bodies, also the G1's EVF was just about unusable in such conditions, especially if aimed at anything dark.

The 20mm 1.7 may make a lot of difference but the leica macro didn't, the lot was sold way before I got rid of the G11 which was still very usable in my situation, in fact it was only getting the 500D and 1.8 lenses that made me realise I wouldn't be needing the G11 any more.

So I stand by my experience with the panny, I wouldn't buy one for indoor shooting in poor light, nor could I recommend one for such use.

How many have actually used both the pannys and the G11 side by side for any period of time?
 
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The 20mm must be the thing that's making the difference then.

I didn't remember having any low light issues at all so I've just done a quick test by leaning into the wardrobe... quite dark... this is the result, the blurriness is a result of the 0.77 sec shutter speed.

P1010893c.jpg


Looking at the screen I could actually see more detail than I could by looking directly at the target.

PS. That's ISO 1600 with no noise reduction.
 
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I have found the Lumix DMC-GF1 Digital Camera with Panasonic 14-45mm Zoom for £375.00 delivered looks like a good price, with £150 pounds worth of extras free;) I have also found the G12 for £379.00 delivered, need to make a decision today or tomorrow, anyone had a comparison with the 2 side by side?
 
Marky67 said:
I have found the Lumix DMC-GF1 Digital Camera with Panasonic 14-45mm Zoom for £375.00 delivered looks like a good price, with £150 pounds worth of extras free;) I have also found the G12 for £379.00 delivered, need to make a decision today or tomorrow, anyone had a comparison with the 2 side by side?
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Thanks! Did a wee search and just ordered one at that price:cool: Had an extensive play with a G12 and absolutely loved it. The levels of manual control are outstanding, and the IQ superb within the limitations of its sensor size.
 
Danny_Two said:
Well, Im biased being a micro four thirds man, but I wouldn't really describe the GF1 as being portable, but then it literally depends how deep your pockets are.
:)
But Gf1 over the canon anyday, and as others have said, there are no light level issues with the G camera's.
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I agree, I have the GF1 and 20mm in the smallest case possible but I still find it's really too bulky even for a jacket pocket. In general I prefer the GH1 since I don't use the GF1 much in my pocket, the GH series is only slightly larger (the difference is less than it looks in pictures) and you get a decent grip, viewfinder and articulated screen. I never use the GF1 with the zoom lenses as I find the combination is just too unbalanced, I'm looking forward to the new 14mm lens though.

I don't know if I'm misreading the thread as I can't see how anyone could suggest the Canon G12 is better than the GF1 in poor light. I find the GF1's AF works reasonably well and its comparatively massive sensor with the wide F1.7 aperture lens gives the GF1 a considerable low light advantage.

For a pocket camera I still use an LX3 which as above is quite a bit behind the GF1 for low light but I find smaller size makes it easier to carry around with me all the time and while its zoom range is limited it still gives some coverage compared to the 20mm's fixed focal length.

John
 
Marky67 said:
I have found the Lumix DMC-GF1 Digital Camera with Panasonic 14-45mm Zoom for £375.00 delivered ...
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But note that the recommendations for your purpose are a GF1 with the 20mmF1.7 lens, so its not really going to be great in low light with the kit zoom.
Of all the current big-sensor-little-cameras the Sony NEX appears to have way better high ISO which would offset their less brilliant lenses ...

I really don't see how the GF1&kitzoom or the Canon G12 is going to do the business you want.

( Thinking laterally : If you want to manually focus get a Lumix G1 and an older manual f1.7 lens with adapter : total cost about £190 )
 
frostbear said:
Thanks! Did a wee search and just ordered one at that price:cool: Had an extensive play with a G12 and absolutely loved it. The levels of manual control are outstanding, and the IQ superb within the limitations of its sensor size.
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Ye, I tried it out also and thought it was brilliant, maybe the best in between :love: that would suit my wife also, with the built in zoom easy features etc! I loved trying out the GF 1 also:bonk:
 
Marky67 said:
I have found the Lumix DMC-GF1 Digital Camera with Panasonic 14-45mm Zoom for £375.00 delivered looks like a good price, with £150 pounds worth of extras free;) I have also found the G12 for £379.00 delivered, need to make a decision today or tomorrow, anyone had a comparison with the 2 side by side?
Click to expand...

great deal. Where was this - do you have a link?
 
The GF2 is just about to arrive, so Id hold off buying a GF1 until its released as there will be some more bargains about then.
 
Danny_Two said:
The GF2 is just about to arrive, so Id hold off buying a GF1 until its released as there will be some more bargains about then.
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Announcement tomorrow(4th Nov.) at 4pm regards the GF2, though not due for release till early 2011.
 
Its funny since I have the same problem : Which Cam is better for low light ? Canon G12 or GF1 with Kit lenses ?
I am leaning towards the G12.
At iso 3200 G12 not bad. Besides, in a emergency , I can place a canon flash in the hotshoe. ( Canon Flash Speedlite 270EX ) .
Besides many people complain about panasonic skin colors.
Look at the 3200 ISO G12 picture . The picture is near the bottom of the thread . It is incredible. ( Maybe light does help ).
I did check the exif. Its indeed 3200 ISO.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1012&message=37089551&changemode=1

I know that a larger sensor camera would be better.., but.., I really hate viewfinders. I have myopia so.., it is not confortable to frame pictures through a viewfinder.

I am not sure if it is possible to use the new canons and nikons ( nikon 3100 ) and the new entry level canon DSLR just in live view .
 
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bear in mind grum makes the panasonic sing.... beautiful shots, as ever.....

I liked my panasonic, but now I have a G12. I don't need tiny, but the G12's 'rangefinder-esque dial for everything' operation is very sweet. The G12 is small enough for me - don't need tiny [for that I have the iPhone].
 
I have hade the GF1 for a few months now, brilliant little camera, loving the portability compared with my previous SLR,I bought it with the 14 mm kit lens witch is really good, would I get better performance upgrading to the 20mm lens or the 14 - 45?

Many thanks for all the replies.

Mark
 
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