Panorama Tripod Kit

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Mawser

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Hi,
I need to take highly accurate panoramas and was about to buy a whole load of kit but now I'm a little confused. Here's the list:
Manfrotto 055XPROB Tripod
Manfrotto 808RC4 3-way Head
Manfrotto MA 454 Micro Positioning Plate
Manfrotto MN338 Levelling base

Is this overkill? I wasn't even aware of panorama heads but now I've been looking at the Manfrotto 302Plus (can get this older model much cheaper than the newer 303.) Could I just get this and avoid the hassle? Would this older model be good enough or should I really go for the newer one?

My budget is about £400.
 
Depending on the kind of work you're doing I'd look at the Manfrotto 438 levelling base, it has a greater range of movement. I've got one on a 055XProB and it works well.

Rather than the 3 way head how about the Manfrotto 410 geared head, the gearing makes small adjustments much easier than a standard 3 way. Again I use one, although it is a 405 I have on my 055XProB, the 410 is on a lighter Gitzo for travelling.

The other thing I would suggest is to go down the Arca Swiss route, that way you can use an L Bracket on your camera.

My panorama kit is:

055XProB
438 levelling base
Novoflex panorama 360 degree panorama plate
Manfrotto 405 geared head
Kirk 2 inch Arca Swiss clamp to convert 405 to Arca Swiss
Novoflex Mini Castel focussing rack (takes the place of the Micro Positioning Plate, I got it cheap and it works well for positioning the lens over the nodal point)
Kirk L Bracket for my camera.
 
After spending countless hours trying to solve the "panorama problem", I finally ending up with solution as in signature.
Couldn't be happier...

Photo of kit is in review threads.
 
What do you mean by 'highly accurate' panoramas? If it's distant landscapes, you don't need much accuracy at all, as anyone who's used Sony's sweep-panorama mode will testify.

But as soon as closer subjects become involved, like critical foregound objects in landscape, or shooting interiors especially, then that can be extremely critical.

The essential bits are a panning base on top of the tripod head, and a nodal rail so the lens pivots around the front optical axis. Very easy and not that expensive, though I'd do it with Arca Swiss compatible gear as it's very good and lots to choose from.

Something like this Sunwayfoto head http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SUNWAYFOT..._Tripods_Heads_Stablisers&hash=item3a72501abb which is superb BTW, and a nodel rail like this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SUNWAYFOT..._Tripods_Heads_Stablisers&hash=item3a75cca0db though there's plenty of other stuff around.

Edit: recommend CameraGearUK, lots of quality tripod stuff on their website.
 
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Mawser said:
Hi,
I need to take highly accurate panoramas ...

Is this overkill? ....

My budget is about £400.
Click to expand...

Given that this is an equipment forum, and you have specifically asked about equipment, and you are getting good advice from very knowledgeable people here, I probably should just keep quiet, but all the same I can't help wondering about software.

It is several years since I did most of my panoramas, but even then I was impressed by how well software could deal with non-aligned (including radically non-aligned) images. For my purposes at least, this de-emphasised the importance of hardware. I imagine current software may be a bit better.

FWIW the context for this was one, two and three-row panoramas of up to 360 degrees. These were mainly estuarine sea /cloud /landscapes, sometimes with ships moving across the scene as the image-sets were captured. (The software was pretty clever about handling that too.)

Not wanting to invest in a motorised setup, I used a pretty crude arrangement with an ordinary ball head kept quite loose. In addition, I needed to work quickly because of the speed with which clouds move up the estuary. So the images (several tens of images in some cases) were definitely not accurately aligned. Indeed, I have done smaller two-row panoramas hand-held, holding the camera in one hand leaning out of a bedroom window!

I know you have specified highly accurate panoramas, but given the surprisingly good results I got for image-sets that were really rather messy and tricky for the software to handle ( quite often not much by way of "hard" shapes to align on), I am wondering if it might be worth experimenting with some trial panorama software using whatever equipment you have to hand before making your final decision on hardware. Like Richard just wrote it does of course depend on what your subjects and quality criteria are.
 
Thanks for all the replies so far folks, very much appreciated and plenty of food for thought, almost too much!

I need the panos to be highly accurate as they'll be used for photomontages - I'll need to bring in a 3d model and place it on the photo so it looks exactly as it would in real life. That's why it needs to be as accurate as humanly possible, hence the need for all of this equipment.

I'm moving away from the panorama head idea now, seems to be a better option from what you're saying to buy the individual parts. That way I can swap and change as I need.

So a geared head would be a good way to go? I'm less tempted by the sunwayfoto ball head, worries me about getting it spot on level, though that could be just down to the old ball head I had which was useless.

I'm a little lost about the Arca Swiss system, it's been a while since I delved into this kind of market!
 
The other way is to leave the camera static and rotate the item.

At Photokina there were a couple of amazing demos of computer controlled turntables which automatically rotated the item, capturing it at each stage and then making a 360 degree file of it at high-res which could be zoomed in, panned, tilted etc, like a QTVR.

I didn't get the details as I have no need for it but if you need to do a few of these shots then they're worth looking into, they went as small as photographing jewellery right up to a full size mountain bike.

A quick google brings up stuff like this http://www.ortery.com/products/photocapture360-360-degree-photo-animation-turntable.php

Re Arca Swiss, it seems more confusing than it actually is, it is simply a universal quick release system, different manufacturers (Arca Swiss themselves, Kirk, Really Right Stuff, Wimberley, Novoflex, Acratech to name just a few) all making kit that it compatible. The camera gets a plate or better still an L Bracket which allows a shift between landscape and portrait shots without recomposing, as the name suggests it is L shaped with quick release dovetails on both the bottom and side of the camera. This then fits into a clamp on the tripod head. Existing tripod heads can be converted (both my geared heads are converted). You can get nodal slides like Richard suggested above which slot into the clamp on your head and have another clamp at one end, they can be slid backwards and forwards to allow you to pivot the camera over its nodal point to minimise parallax errors.
 
Mawser said:
Thanks for all the replies so far folks, very much appreciated and plenty of food for thought, almost too much!

I need the panos to be highly accurate as they'll be used for photomontages - I'll need to bring in a 3d model and place it on the photo so it looks exactly as it would in real life. That's why it needs to be as accurate as humanly possible, hence the need for all of this equipment.

I'm moving away from the panorama head idea now, seems to be a better option from what you're saying to buy the individual parts. That way I can swap and change as I need.

So a geared head would be a good way to go? I'm less tempted by the sunwayfoto ball head, worries me about getting it spot on level, though that could be just down to the old ball head I had which was useless.

I'm a little lost about the Arca Swiss system, it's been a while since I delved into this kind of market!
Click to expand...

The head is less important, though I suspect you've not used a really good ball head. The cheaper ones can be next to useless, the best ones are brilliant. But all it needs to do is hold the camera dead flat and square, then the panning platform bit sitting on top controls the movement.

You can do it without a panning platform, and simply rotate the whole head, but that means you must have the tripod exactly level and that's a right PITA. If you don't fancy an integral panning platform, then get one like this that simply fits on top of any Arca Swiss type head http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SUNWAYFOT..._Tripods_Heads_Stablisers&hash=item3a6e22cce9 That's just an example, and I know it to be a good one, but there are plenty of others. You'll notice they mostly use the Arca Swiss QR system that Mark described, which is very good an almost universal amongst top end manufacturers. I can recommend an L-bracket too, shooting in portait format will give you more options.

The other bit needed for critical pano alignment of close objects is the nodal rail. That's easy too, just allows the whole rig to pivot around the entrance pupil to prevent parallax (it's often called the nodal point, but it's not). Plenty of demos on the web on how to locate the entrance pupil, but it's very easy - close to the front of the lens, but can move a bit with focal length if you have a zoom.
 
Right...thanks again. I've been out today to a couple of the bigger shops in the area for professional photography. Surprisingly they weren't a fat lot of help. Barely knew what Arca Swiss was

Thanks Mark for the little write up about Arca Swiss, I'm with it now and totally on board with it, I think it sounds ideal to ensure future compatibility - like the L bracket, I wouldn't need that yet but possibly further down the line. I'm set on the Manfrotto 055XPROB legs, seems ideal for my budget and having seen them today I'm very happy with them.

Can't make my mind up about the rest, especially with my budget in mind. Richard, thanks also for the guidance by the way.

Would this do the trick?
Manfrotto 410 Geared head
Levelling base (either 438 or 338 depending on price)
SUNWAYFOTO Fluid Panning Tripod Adapter (Clamp) Arca Compatible DDH-01
SUNWAYFOTO DMP-200L Rail Nodal Slide

Then I'd need a QR Arca Swiss plate and an adapter to go from the 410 right?
 
I use a panoramic Monfrotto head.. worth every single penny! Perfect panoramas everytime, even those with extreme wide angle lenses and very exaggerated perspective.
 
Mawser said:
Right...thanks again. I've been out today to a couple of the bigger shops in the area for professional photography. Surprisingly they weren't a fat lot of help. Barely knew what Arca Swiss was

Thanks Mark for the little write up about Arca Swiss, I'm with it now and totally on board with it, I think it sounds ideal to ensure future compatibility - like the L bracket, I wouldn't need that yet but possibly further down the line. I'm set on the Manfrotto 055XPROB legs, seems ideal for my budget and having seen them today I'm very happy with them.

Can't make my mind up about the rest, especially with my budget in mind. Richard, thanks also for the guidance by the way.

Would this do the trick?
Manfrotto 410 Geared head
Levelling base (either 438 or 338 depending on price)
SUNWAYFOTO Fluid Panning Tripod Adapter (Clamp) Arca Compatible DDH-01
SUNWAYFOTO DMP-200L Rail Nodal Slide

Then I'd need a QR Arca Swiss plate and an adapter to go from the 410 right?
Click to expand...

410 head is excellent, but be aware that it's quite heavy. You don't need a levelling base if you have a panning platform like the one I linked above, though the easiest, neatest, lightest and cheapest way is to get a head with a panning top platform built in, which is the way I'd do it, with something like the Sunwayfoto head I linked before, though there are others.

The adapter you need for the 410 is this one http://www.ebay.com/itm/Manfrotto-4...799?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d01daa7bf Or cheaper way, if less elegant, is to simply bolt an Arca Swiss clamp like this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FotoPro-5..._Tripods_Heads_Stablisers&hash=item4d03299237 on top of the standard QR plate.

Edit: having said all that, it's not clear to me why you're simply not going with the suggestion in post #4. You're going the long way round and IMHO will end up with an unnecessarily cumbersome and expensive rig.

Double edit: if you don't mind me saying so, I think your prejudice against ball heads is misplaced, if you get a good one, but if not, you'll like this wonderful Induro 5-way jobbie with integral Arca Swiss panning platform. It's £320 though :( http://www.profoto.com/uk/main/phq-heads
 
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I wouldn't say I'm prejudiced against ball heads, I prefer them over the alternatives. Having said that, I need to be able to document how many degrees away from horizontal I'm shooting in case I need to go back and retake images plus I'll have to put the info into a report writeup. That's why I'm not so keen for the ball head this time.

That induro looks incredible! On ebay they're between £200-300 and considering it includes everything I'd need it seems spot on. Also as I'm most likely to be taking shots away from the horizon it allows for that. So the final question is which to go for - the PHQ1 or PHQ3 - the only difference seems to be them being for different tripod 'types'.
I think the one I'd need is the PHQ1 http://www.indurogear.com/products_details_PHQ1.html#specs
Here's the PHQ3 http://www.indurogear.com/products_details_PHQ3.html#specs
 
Mawser said:
I wouldn't say I'm prejudiced against ball heads, I prefer them over the alternatives. Having said that, I need to be able to document how many degrees away from horizontal I'm shooting in case I need to go back and retake images plus I'll have to put the info into a report writeup. That's why I'm not so keen for the ball head this time.

That induro looks incredible! On ebay they're between £200-300 and considering it includes everything I'd need it seems spot on. Also as I'm most likely to be taking shots away from the horizon it allows for that. So the final question is which to go for - the PHQ1 or PHQ3 - the only difference seems to be them being for different tripod 'types'.
I think the one I'd need is the PHQ1 http://www.indurogear.com/products_details_PHQ1.html#specs
Here's the PHQ3 http://www.indurogear.com/products_details_PHQ3.html#specs
Click to expand...

Induro PHQ1 is plenty big enough :thumbs:
 
Magic. Thanks so much for your help (et al.!) Much more useful than the muppets in the shops.
 
The Nodal Ninja range of Pan heads are the heads of choice and the widest used, by far, in the specialist Panoramic world.
They are also partners with the Leica Survey Kit. for marking survey data on to spherical pans.
Just as is the PTGui software has about 80% of the serious market.

Almost any Pan Bracket will give accurate results when the entry pupil is callibrated.

However it is the software that gives the real accuracy, as it does not care what part of the visual sphere is captured in each shot, as long as the entrance pupil is correctly set and there is sufficient overlap and the control points are correctly chosen. then a perfect stitch is guaranteed.

It does not even matter if the kit is set level or not as levelling is part of the stitching process.

I have a manfrotto 155prob tripod and use the NN3 mk2 directly on the legs. I have a levelling head and 4way tripod head but never use them for Pans as it is both quicker and sturdier and more accurate not to. (each item added adds extra unavoidable play and increased vibration, and an extra tool to adjust))

In saying all this, more than half my pans are taken hand held. using PTAssembler software with "Smartblend" Blender which takes care of most Parrallax issues.
 
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