Pay to shoot wildlife getting out of hand

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Mark
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#81
...or £50 for a couple of hours . if you take it that hide will be in use 10 hours a day 7 days a week that works out at around £1750 a week x 2 ...
I doubt any hides that do 2 hour slots are full in that way every hour of the day of every week. It’s likely they are empty majority of the time especially when there are only certain peak periods of activity with many wildlife species.
Exactly. Those figures are the same as the fallacy claimed that photographers who charge £850 for a day's PR work must be raking it in.
The truth is that the majority of them are only shooting two to three days a month at that rate, so the expense covers the downtime.
It's a hidden cost never taken into consideration.
 
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#82
I've used paid hides on a couple of occasions and I've felt both times that they have been expensive, but value for money (IMO).

I went to Horn Mill a couple of years ago and the way I justified it was that if they weren't charging photographers then the ponds would all be netted over and the Ospreys would be having more of a struggle to establish themselves in the area. So in a way I was helping contributing towards the Osprey's fish. I also went on one of the boat trips around Rutland, learned loads about the species, had a lovely day, only came away with a couple of distant shots of red kites, but felt OK because I was supporting people who have put in a lot of effort over many years to establish the birds in England once again.

Another trip I did was to a kingfisher hide. I have never been able to justify the cost of a 600mm fast lens for wildlife as it's something I only do occasionally, so paying to go to a baited set up hide was expensive but far more cost effective than paying thousands for a lens that I would only use a few times a year.
 

Nod

Krispy and Kremey
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Nod (NOT Ethel!!!)
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#83
Exactly. Those figures are the same as the fallacy claimed that photographers who charge £850 for a day's PR work must be raking it in.
The truth is that the majority of them are only shooting two to three days a month at that rate, so the expense covers the downtime.
It's a hidden cost never taken into consideration.

Maybe if the £850 a day rate was a bit less, the photographer would be able to get more work and earn more?
 

Gremlin

*looks down* Yep, I'm a girl!
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#84
I have no problems with people paying out for photographic days in private hides, done it myself
My objection is to those done in public places where they expect YOU to stay clear of the group
I was in a public hide and had been there for a while with a friend, along came a group, firstly we
were asked not to chat as we were disturbing the talk, then some loud protest from people in the group
because they had paid a lot of money and couldn't sit where they wanted !!!
When I left I spoke to a warden, he was not pleased to say the least, seems permission had been
given but the organiser had been told to respect other visitors. I should say that this is a paid to entry
place although not expensive
 
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1,196
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David
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#85
I doubt any hides that do 2 hour slots are full in that way every hour of the day of every week. It’s likely they are empty majority of the time especially when there are only certain peak periods of activity with many wildlife species.

I’ve not been to any of the osprey hides in Scotland so can’t say what that’s like. The one in Rutland only runs once around sunrise and once near sunset. They used to provide a spotter who has a wider view to spot any incoming ospreys and radios the heads up to you so there is the additional cost of a person time there too.
Don't forget that the one in Rutland is a fish farm and the photographers help pay for the cost of the fish.
 
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Jeremy Moore
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#86
I have no problems with people paying out for photographic days in private hides, done it myself
My objection is to those done in public places where they expect YOU to stay clear of the group
I was in a public hide and had been there for a while with a friend, along came a group, firstly we
were asked not to chat as we were disturbing the talk, then some loud protest from people in the group
because they had paid a lot of money and couldn't sit where they wanted !!!
When I left I spoke to a warden, he was not pleased to say the least, seems permission had been
given but the organiser had been told to respect other visitors. I should say that this is a paid to entry
place although not expensive
That sounds horrible. Hopefully the word will get around about the ethics of that particular group leader.

A bit of a tangent I know but I got really p'eed off one day while trying to photograph birds and landscape on the Dyfi estuary at high tide. There were two wildlfowlers there who had a permit to shoot ducks but thought it gave them the exclusive use of the place. One of them was obnoxious.

But back to photography I've heard some birders say that they find a group (informal or otherwise) of bird photographers in a hide rather intimidating, as if they felt they had sole use of the hide.
 
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#87
But back to photography I've heard some birders say that they find a group (informal or otherwise) of bird photographers in a hide rather intimidating, as if they felt they had sole use of the hide.
There is certainly a 'them & us' attitude amongst some!
A recent Twitter post made by a UK 'Bird Observatory' spoke about some "typical photographers" when reporting about two people who had been seen approaching a Peregrine nesting site for photographs.
 

Gremlin

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#88
But back to photography I've heard some birders say that they find a group (informal or otherwise) of bird photographers in a hide rather intimidating, as if they felt they had sole use of the hide.
I find a load of birders in a hide, noisy, they seem to need to shout and point out birds, I generally leave them to it as do the birds ;)
 
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#90
wrong to put people in categories. There are good and unfortunately bad in any group. It mostly comes down to common sense (not very common) and consideration coupled with a little tolerance. As a photographer i have met experienced birders who could behave much better and photographers who are simply selfish. Actually the groups I dread (who have a perfect right to be there) are school children on a day out. I have also met birders who are only too happy to explain what they are looking at and offer use of their scope and photographers who are friendly,interesting and help to pass the time when the birds are not performing.
 
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5,148
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Rob
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#91
Don't forget that the one in Rutland is a fish farm and the photographers help pay for the cost of the fish.
The Rutland sites are trout farms and diversified with help of the Osprey project at Rutland once they worked out they were losing fish to the nearby ospreys. Win win if you ask me as it helps the ospreys and covers the farms trout losses. Hopefully fisheries will do the same soon too as

The red kites at the Rutland sites have started to take the dead trout floating on the surface.i guess they have learnt from the ospreys.

Are the scottish hides wild trout? I always thought they would be commercial trout farms too rather than wild.
 

Gremlin

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#92
have also met birders who are only too happy to explain what they are looking at and offer use of their scope and photographers who are friendly,interesting and help to pass the time when the birds are not performing.
Yes there are good in all side, likewise I've often pointed things out to the birders
One of the worst offenders where I go are a couple of photography guys who talk loudly
so you can't even hear the bird songs, a couple of visits ago one turned up on his
own moaning about a shop he had just been to and couldn't get served, myself and the only
other person in there just ignored him till he shut up
Kids can be a pain, but they don't tend to hang about long, they get bored because the
birds don't appear, adults never seem to explain that they need to keep quiet
 
OP
OP
the black fox
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Jeff
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#93
Yes there are good in all side, likewise I've often pointed things out to the birders
One of the worst offenders where I go are a couple of photography guys who talk loudly
so you can't even hear the bird songs, a couple of visits ago one turned up on his
own moaning about a shop he had just been to and couldn't get served, myself and the only
other person in there just ignored him till he shut up
Kids can be a pain, but they don't tend to hang about long, they get bored because the
birds don't appear, adults never seem to explain that they need to keep quiet
Luckily although advancing years have taken there toll , I’m still a very large and imposing person and if the hide gets to noisy ,my best RSM voice is used to loudly state STFU birds have ears to
 

Gremlin

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Ingrid
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#94
Luckily although advancing years have taken there toll , I’m still a very large and imposing person and if the hide gets to noisy ,my best RSM voice is used to loudly state STFU birds have ears to
:eek::runaway:o_O
I'm only 5'2" but you don't scare me :p
 
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#95
The David Plummer hide I was able to do is a 1 to 2 man hide.....I had it to myself.

He has an explicit statement on his website that no one can hire his hide(s) if their intention is to use it for teaching purposes. He offers his own tuition hire service.

As for behaviour in public hides (including those where a modest access fee is paid) ~ in the main whether birder or photographer I have found them respectful of needing to keep the noise/talking at a very low level. Plus most who are there or turn up that are 'locals' I found have been helpful and where I can I have reciprocated. It makes sense to keep a quiet & pleasant atmosphere for all to benefit and enjoy what we are there for :)
 
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#97
It’s not just wildlife photography. Aviation photo shoots have gone up in proce as well as steam photo events at say the NRM as well £50 for a couple of hours etc etc

if people keep paying it, they will keep charging it.
 
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#98
And just to add

I live in E Yorkshire and currently have a male and a female barn owl and I let photographers spend some time with us and set some nice portraits up and have some nice props and locations

I don’t charge and it’s subject to weather and my free time. Usually weekends and school holidays as I work term time. Feel free to enquire

Martin

My female
 
OP
OP
the black fox
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Jeff
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#99
And just to add

I live in E Yorkshire and currently have a male and a female barn owl and I let photographers spend some time with us and set some nice portraits up and have some nice props and locations

I don’t charge and it’s subject to weather and my free time. Usually weekends and school holidays as I work term time. Feel free to enquire

Martin

My female
I’m in bempton for a week 2nd week in June ,if possible would love this ..
 
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Jason
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I saw today on social media there was somebody running a group workshop for Colin the cuckoo... By all accounts they were being rude and obnoxious, even asking people to move away as they were on a workshop.!
 
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