paying up front for services

[Terrywoodenpic]

At various times the question of paying in full up front comes up for discussion.
this is something I never expected customers to do, nor have ever done myself.

To day I had a plumbcare gas fitter turn up on an appointment to service my one year old boiler.
Before he would do anything at all, he asked for payment up front.
I find that incredibly insulting so I said that I would be happy to settle up once the job was done.
On my urging he phoned the office ...and no deal...
So I told him he had better leave. And that there were plenty of local heating engineers who wold be happy to take on the job in future.

After he had gone I phoned the plumbcare office and spoke to the administrator.
It seems that they have now changed their policy and charge for all work including installations ...up front.
When they installed the boiler it took three visits, two by senior fitters to complete the work. Had I paid up front I would have been up the creek without a paddle. And very cold.

Perhaps this is a new trend....
How do you deal with incomplete work if you have already paid?

 

[Bobsyeruncle]

Pay by credit card, and if the work is sub standard, let your card provider know.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Pay by credit card, and if the work is sub standard, let your card provider know.

You could still end up with a non working boiler, and a complex long winded situation to sort out. For some thing less vital than a boiler a credit card might help.

 

[Bobsyeruncle]

You could still end up with a non working boiler, and a complex long winded situation to sort out. For some thing less vital than a boiler a credit card might help.

Better than paying cash and having a non working boiler though.
At least you'd have some redress with a credit card.

 

[Steep]

As you say, there are plenty of other businesses that will take your money. Plumbcare should have been more upfront with their terms if they expected upfront payment, assuming you didn't just miss that bit in their advert/details.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

As you say, there are plenty of other businesses that will take your money. Plumbcare should have been more upfront with their terms if they expected upfront payment, assuming you didn't just miss that bit in their advert/details.

I was an existing client with a trading history of paying on completion.
I have no idea what is in their small print now. But I see nothing obvious on their web site.

I have just looked at their latest trading figures, and they are not that clever. And only £100 of issued stock.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Better than paying cash and having a non working boiler though.
At least you'd have some redress with a credit card.

That is why I never pay up front.
Getting anything sorted with a non compliant building trade enterprise, can be a very expensive and fraught process.

 

[BruceMo]

Depends on the job circumstances for me, but if i haven't done work for the client before, I might ask for material money up front especially if it's a few bob. Mostly I do small jobs so just ask for payment on completion, but there are a few folk I ask money up front for it all if I've had previous problems getting paid. If they go somewhere else so be it

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Depends on the job circumstances for me, but if i haven't done work for the client before, I might ask for material money up front especially if it's a few bob. Mostly I do small jobs so just ask for payment on completion, but there are a few folk I ask money up front for it all if I've had previous problems getting paid. If they go somewhere else so be it

Sounds reasonable ,
When using small traders, I will offer to get the materials for them, but that can mean they lose out on any discounts. But some prefer it that way.

I never owe any money to any one, I even pay the British gas quarterly as soon as I get the online bill. Fixed bills I pay by standing order.
on the same token I never borrow money.

 

[BruceMo]

Sounds reasonable ,
When using small traders, I will offer to get the materials for them, but that can mean they lose out on any discounts. But some prefer it that way.

I never owe any money to any one, I even pay the British gas quarterly as soon as I get the online bill. Fixed bills I pay by standing order.
on the same token I never borrow money.

I must admit I'm surprised by a big company asking for payment up front when you have a good history with them
as you say, plenty small traders will happily do it for you payment on completion. I might be biased but I say support the wee guy

 

[neil_g]

Maybe they just kept getting stung by doing the work and not getting paid

 

[boliston]

Seems very odd - used a few different plumbers over the years to service the boiler and normally they either post or email me a bill and then I bacs them - the most recent one took about 4 weeks to get round to emailing me a bill!

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Seems very odd - used a few different plumbers over the years to service the boiler and normally they either post or email me a bill and then I bacs them - the most recent one took about 4 weeks to get round to emailing me a bill!

That has been my experience in the past. Some seem to find billing a chore?

 

[kendo1]

That has been my experience in the past. Some seem to find billing a chore?

Yep, I get around to it eventually

I state my terms with my quote - half up front plus materials, balance on completion.
My work normally takes two to three weeks for complete refits.

If it is not acceptable I don't do the job.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Yep, I get around to it eventually

I state my terms with my quote - half up front plus materials, balance on completion.
My work normally takes two to three weeks for complete refits.

If it is not acceptable I don't do the job.

I suspect that is the norm in most building trades. But it is reputation that brings the work, especiall for a small trader.

 

[kendo1]

I suspect that is the norm in most building trades. But it is reputation that brings the work, especiall for a small trader.

I've had two weeks off in the last 4 years...

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

I've had two weeks off in the last 4 years...

I understand that. It is very hard to take time off with a full book, and not wanting to lose jobs to competitors.
but people do understand that everyone needs time for themselves.

 

[kendo1]

I understand that. It is very hard to take time off with a full book, and not wanting to lose jobs to competitors.
but people do understand that everyone needs time for themselves.

I work on my own
Everyday is a holiday!

 

[cambsno]

For domestic customers I never do a session without payment up front and they never get prints or electronic images before payment either.

 

[MWHCVT]

It depends on the sector, on the disco work that we do most jobs have to be paid in full at least a week before the job, and if we are taking payment on the night then the money must be paid cash/cleared funds before any music is played...as its all to easy for client to get drunk and bugger off before then end, make up some bull crap story or all sorts of other reasons for non payment/short payment etc etc, you'd be amazed at some of the stories

And many other services in our sector work the same or similar terms..

Now of course there are other sectors that will work on credit, but where ever possible most will rightly try and avoid it on the customer end

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

These days the Wedding world seems to work with upfront payment.
Certainly up to the 70's that was rare though part deposits were taken.
In the commercial and industrial world that was never so.

Up front payment seems to be spreading from the small business world to larger concerns.

In the Building sector it is more likely that a rogue trader will bilk a customer than the reverse.

 

[the black fox]

I do believe the oldest trade in the world is based on upfront payments , leaving out marriage where you buy the same commodity over a lifetime payment system

 

[DorsetDude]

I do believe the oldest trade in the world is based on upfront payments

If its the oldest trade in the world where did the blokes using the service earn the money to pay for it?

 

[Cobra]

do believe the oldest trade in the world is based on upfront payments ,

If you don't pay, is it rape or shop lifting?

f its the oldest trade in the world where did the blokes using the service earn the money to pay for it?

I'm sure a sack of spuds or a head of cabbage, etc would have been acceptable barter in days of yore

 

[DorsetDude]

I'm sure a sack of spuds or a head of cabbage, etc would have been acceptable barter in days of yore

So they would have been farmers then. i.e a profession.

 

[Cobra]

i.e a trade.

Yep thats what I was getting at

acceptable barter in days of yore

 

[dejongj]

I was an existing client with a trading history of paying on completion.
I have no idea what is in their small print now. But I see nothing obvious on their web site.

I have just looked at their latest trading figures, and they are not that clever. And only £100 of issued stock.

Sounds reasonable ,
When using small traders, I will offer to get the materials for them, but that can mean they lose out on any discounts. But some prefer it that way.

I never owe any money to any one, I even pay the British gas quarterly as soon as I get the online bill. Fixed bills I pay by standing order.
on the same token I never borrow money.

Perhaps they checked you out as well. I ran into that "problem" of not owing anything, it can make you appear a huge risk to some. Or even plain unattractive to their business model. Lol never forget the look of horror on the shops assistants faces when I paid for furniture in full and declined their interest free loan etc.

 

[Cobra]

Lol never forget the look of horror on the shops assistants faces when I paid for furniture in full and declined their interest free loan etc.

I asked once what that was all about, it seems to loan companies "Buy to rights" off people like the large furniture stores, God knows what they get out of it though.

 

[Bobsyeruncle]

I asked once what that was all about, it seems to loan companies "Buy to rights" off people like the large furniture stores, God knows what they get out of it though.

Stores have to pay the finance company every time interest free credit is taken by a customer

 

[Cobra]

Stores have to pay the finance company every time interest free credit is taken by a customer

In that case the guy I was talking too, got it arse about face, but he was adamant that the finance companies "buy the right" and it didn't cost the store a penny.

 

[dejongj]

In that case the guy I was talking too, got it arse about face, but he was adamant that the finance companies "buy the right" and it didn't cost the store a penny.

Regardless which way it is, it won't be for your benefit

 

[Cobra]

Regardless which way it is, it won't be for your benefit

Thats fer sure

 

[Nod]

Had a plumber come to replace a cracked bog bowl at Mrs Nod's business. No need to pre-pay him. In and out in an hour or less and I did a couple of odd jobs there while we were there. (Got lunch out of it as well!)

 

[Bobsyeruncle]

In that case the guy I was talking too, got it arse about face, but he was adamant that the finance companies "buy the right" and it didn't cost the store a penny.

If stores sell interest bearing credit, the finance company pays them a percentage for each deal, but the stores pay the finance company for interest free.
There would be no point in the finance Co offering interest free credit if they weren't making any money.

 

[Cobra]

There would be no point in the finance Co offering interest free credit if they weren't making any money.

That's what I would have thought but the guy was adamant, still its of no consequence to me as like JP @dejongj I paid in full at the time too.

 

[dejongj]

If stores sell interest bearing credit, the finance company pays them a percentage for each deal, but the stores pay the finance company for interest free.
There would be no point in the finance Co offering interest free credit if they weren't making any money.

Oh there is a point, we just haven't figured it out yet. But if it helps the store make a sale, someone will share in that sale. There is something along the murky path where palms gets creased. Hence I prefer to just pay for stuff, unless I can clearly get a better deal like my lease car.

 

[Bobsyeruncle]

Oh there is a point, we just haven't figured it out yet. But if it helps the store make a sale, someone will share in that sale. There is something along the murky path where palms gets creased. Hence I prefer to just pay for stuff, unless I can clearly get a better deal like my lease car.

That's why the stores are happy to pay in order to offer interest free.
It helps their marketing and increases their sales. customers are happy, stores are happy and finance Co is happy.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

When money in the bank was actually worth something, in interest terms. It was worth taking up interest free offers. as it was in effect a discount ( money borrowed for free while your own was working for you.
Today money has an embarrassingly low value and earns almost nothing, wherever you stack it.
That is until you want to borrow some....

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Perhaps they checked you out as well. I ran into that "problem" of not owing anything, it can make you appear a huge risk to some. Or even plain unattractive to their business model. Lol never forget the look of horror on the shops assistants faces when I paid for furniture in full and declined their interest free loan etc.

I had spent over £2000 with them last year. And I have an excellent credit rating with the agencies. They had no excuse.
If they had done the service to specification and left every thing working, they would have been paid on the spot.

 

[basegreen]

I've never paid a tradesman upfront, other than providing materials. Why would I? They soon lose interest when they have the money, and it becomes excuse after excuse. Nothing sharpens the mind like waiting to be paid.