Pentax 6x7 - uneven frame spacing

RichardH

RichardH

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Richard
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I have the Mk1 body of the Pentax 6x7. All now good with it, except I do get uneven frame spacing such that the last frame is sometimes cropped by a bit. Can't find much on this online. Anyone know of any tricks to reduce the spacing?

Thanks for any help.

Richard
 
Hi Richard, without wanting to state the obvious and apologise if I'm teaching my grandmother to suck eggs but have you checked that you have it set to 120 not 220 film?.
If that is set correctly then there are no real tips although you must make sure that the start of the film is lined up correctly and if that's right then a CLA would be your best bet.
There are Pentax specialists based in Brentford who will do a CLA for a reasonable price, they used to work for Pentax when they were based in Harrow so know their stuff.
 
RaglanSurf said:
Hi Richard, without wanting to state the obvious and apologise if I'm teaching my grandmother to suck eggs but have you checked that you have it set to 120 not 220 film?.
If that is set correctly then there are no real tips although you must make sure that the start of the film is lined up correctly and if that's right then a CLA would be your best bet.
There are Pentax specialists based in Brentford who will do a CLA for a reasonable price, they used to work for Pentax when they were based in Harrow so know their stuff.
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No that's fine. Both indicators on the side and back say 120. Don't really want to go through a CLA. Just been through a horrible 5 month back and forth process which resulted in the seller giving me a different body. Really enjoying the camera at the moment, so am looking for any possible self fix it tips.
 
RichardH said:
No that's fine. Both indicators on the side and back say 120. Don't really want to go through a CLA. Just been through a horrible 5 month back and forth process which resulted in the seller giving me a different body. Really enjoying the camera at the moment, so am looking for any possible self fix it tips.
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Not that I know of Richard, maybe your best bet is to just use it for a while, try and pinch a little extra at the start of the film when lining up and be extra vigilant when winding on. You'll have to weigh up the cost of a CLA against losing some of the final frame. At least if you know it's going to crop the last fame you can compose carefully and try and make sure the main subject is framed to the right.
 
RichardH said:
No that's fine. Both indicators on the side and back say 120. Don't really want to go through a CLA. Just been through a horrible 5 month back and forth process which resulted in the seller giving me a different body. Really enjoying the camera at the moment, so am looking for any possible self fix it tips.
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Unfortunately, it sounds like the camera requires servicing. Trying to fix uneven spacing is certainly not something that I would feel confident attempting with my own Pentax 6x7 anyway.

How many films have you put through it? Perhaps you could get lucky and the camera just needs a bit of a workout after sitting around for awhile.
 
Sometimes I get all 10 frames. Sometimes a crop on the 10th. I read somewhere (but can't find it) that winding the camera at its longest throw can do this, and you can wind it less far and still take a pic. Not tried that yet as my instinct has always been to wind as far as it will go. Shot about 6 rolls through it. Always with the same issue.
 
RichardH said:
Sometimes I get all 10 frames. Sometimes a crop on the 10th. I read somewhere (but can't find it) that winding the camera at its longest throw can do this, and you can wind it less far and still take a pic. Not tried that yet as my instinct has always been to wind as far as it will go. Shot about 6 rolls through it. Always with the same issue.
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I'm confused. You've stated that you "sometimes get all 10 frames", but then you've "shot about 6 rolls through it" and "always with the same issue".

For clarity, out of the six rolls , how many have had the tenth frame cropped? Were you using the same type of film for all of these rolls?

I've seen last-frame cropping issues that have been caused by thin films, which can throw off the camera's spacing mechanism.
 
skysh4rk said:
I'm confused. You've stated that you "sometimes get all 10 frames", but then you've "shot about 6 rolls through it" and "always with the same issue".

For clarity, out of the six rolls , how many have had the tenth frame cropped? Were you using the same type of film for all of these rolls?

I've seen last-frame cropping issues that have been caused by thin films, which can throw off the camera's spacing mechanism.
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"Same issue" in as much as the frame spacing is uneven. Sometimes I get away with it, sometimes the 10th frame is cropped. I've gone through them and its 5 rolls - either Tri-X or Portra 400 and 4 of the five have a cropped 10 frame. But the real issue (now that I look at them) is that in each case, the first frame starts about 3cm into the negative. I would probably get my 10th frame if the first frame started nearer to the beginning of the neg. Yes, I know that I have to wind it so the arrow on the paper leader points at the orange dot. Should I wind it to a couple of cm before the dot?
 
RichardH said:
"Same issue" in as much as the frame spacing is uneven. Sometimes I get away with it, sometimes the 10th frame is cropped. I've gone through them and its 5 rolls - either Tri-X or Portra 400 and 4 of the five have a cropped 10 frame. But the real issue (now that I look at them) is that in each case, the first frame starts about 3cm into the negative. I would probably get my 10th frame if the first frame started nearer to the beginning of the neg. Yes, I know that I have to wind it so the arrow on the paper leader points at the orange dot. Should I wind it to a couple of cm before the dot?
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I see now.

You could try leaving the start mark a bit short of the arrow to see if you get all ten frames that way, I suppose.

As I don't think it's been explicitly stated in the thread before, and you only mention a generic "orange dot" above, I presume that you are lining up the start mark on the film to the orange arrow for 120, right? Of course, one might expect the photos to start 7cm into the negative if you weren't, so I imagine you are already doing this.
 
What I do when loading any 120 film is that I lightly put pressure on the roll with my thumb as I advance the take up spool. This takes out any slack between the two spools, a slack roll will often cause a few spacing issues.
 
skysh4rk said:
As I don't think it's been explicitly stated in the thread before, and you only mention a generic "orange dot" above, I presume that you are lining up the start mark on the film to the orange arrow for 120, right?
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On my camera (Mk1 non MLU), it is a little orange dot (and strangely no marker for 220 film).
 
FruitFlakes said:
What I do when loading any 120 film is that I lightly put pressure on the roll with my thumb as I advance the take up spool. This takes out any slack between the two spools, a slack roll will often cause a few spacing issues.
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I will try that - thanks.
 
RichardH said:
On my camera (Mk1 non MLU), it is a little orange dot (and strangely no marker for 220 film).
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I wasn’t aware that the non-MLU was any different than the MLU in this regard. A picture of my Pentax 6x7 with arrows for 120 and 220 is shown below; where is the single arrow for the non-MLU model?

0F59EB6D-644A-41F9-BAD3-50AF3E28190D.jpeg
 
Here is mine...



Interesting that the dot is not in the same place.
 
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RichardH said:
Here is mine...



Interesting that the dot is not in the same place.
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well, even if the dot is in the wrong place, it can't go any further left so its airing on the side of starting frame 1 as early as possible anyway.
there hasn't been much talk about the "uneven" frame spacing, its just been about the crop on the last frame.
are we seeing variable frame spacing, different widths across the roll, or equal spacing that may or may not be too wide, or 1 big daft spacing and the rest equal
 
joxby said:
are we seeing variable frame spacing, different widths across the roll, or equal spacing that may or may not be too wide, or 1 big daft spacing and the rest equal
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Uneven spacing between the frames as well. But I think if I can fix the alignment of the first frame that should do it.
 
I guess I should have posted an example at the start of the thread. Here is a typical example. Lots of lost negative at the start of the film. The frame spacing is actually pretty good till you get to the space between 9 and 10. The net result is that frame 10 is slightly cut off.

 
Quick update. I shot off another roll of Portra today, this time lining the arrow on the roll to the screw just below and right of the Batt Check button. I would say about 2 cm to the left of the orange dot. I also applied pressure with my thumb on the roll as I wound it on as suggested. The result was close to perfect in terms of frame spacing and space at either end of the roll. Lucky first time maybe, but so far it seems the mechanism is misaligned somehow.
 
RichardH said:
Quick update. I shot off another roll of Portra today, this time lining the arrow on the roll to the screw just below and right of the Batt Check button. I would say about 2 cm to the left of the orange dot. I also applied pressure with my thumb on the roll as I wound it on as suggested. The result was close to perfect in terms of frame spacing and space at either end of the roll. Lucky first time maybe, but so far it seems the mechanism is misaligned somehow.
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richard, since I have the same issue, I would like to know how it went so far with that method? did it work every time? Do you still have the bigger space between frame 9 and 10? thanks so much!
 
Lining the film on the screw works every time, and I have shot a LOT of rolls since then. I don't think about it now. Stopped applying pressure on the film. Haven't looked for or seen any untoward spacing between the images. Best of luck with it.
 
thank you so much! I will give it a ry ;) I couldn't live with one shot missing or copped each roll.... if that doesn't work I will have to send it somewhere for a service.
 
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If you have the lever wind and you wind it quickly you can make it wind on too much at once. The handbooks often say to wind carefully and slowly. The gaps between frames should be near identical and yours aren't. There seem to be about 3 different sizes at least going on.
 
ines.took.this said:
thank you so much! I will give it a ry ;) I couldn't live with one shot missing or copped each roll.... if that doesn't work I will have to send it somewhere for a service.
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I use these folks to service my 67, http://www.asahiphoto.co.uk/ they are ex Pentax technicians and are based just down the road from me in Brentford.
 
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