Photographing children at a public event

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Angelo
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#1
Hiya,
I'm not sure if this is the right forum to post this but anyway...
I've got a 4yrs old daughter and last year when she had the Christmas party at the school, we've been told that taking photos are not allowed. I didn't question it because was the school and I thought they've got their own rules in place. So we ended up paying for photos taken by an accredited school photographer. I can assure you they weren't cheap.
Anyway, this year I'll face another rip-off. Same story with the school but in the meantime, my beloved one goes to a dance school and they will have a show in a few weeks time. And guess what ?! Same policy again: no photos allowed! I didn't question the fact that all the parents have to buy tickets to see the show but why am I not allowed to take photos due to child protection policy's in line with uk law ?!

I did some research online and apparently there is no law against photographing chidren ?!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/...is-no-law-against-photographing-children.html

But according to this
http://www.safenetwork.org.uk/help_...ng_practice/Pages/photographing_children.aspx
a photographer would need a parental consent form, something we've never been asked to agree neither by the school or dance school.

If I'm NOT allowed to take photos of my own child, why someone else should be ?! I don't intend to make them public so it's beyond my understanding why I have to miss important moments in my child's life because someone is imposing a rule based on a law which is not very clear anyway ?!
 
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#2
Private property.. they can set their own rules. The "law" doesn't really come into it.
 
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Storm Trooper
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#3
Its basically their house their rules, its nothing to do with child protection just the deal the school has with the photographer. As much as i would want to take photos too i would also like to enjoy the performance which can be difficult through the viewfinder.
 
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David Williams
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#4
If you have been told not to take photographs it is because the school or organisation have made that decision.

At my boys primary school and indeed the nursery they went to as toddlers the request was to keep the photos for personal use only. Quite how the school stops people posting pictures of their little cherubs on FB I have no idea but at least they ask.

So unfortunately you have to take your fight to the head teacher, governors or local education authority. Nearly all the spurious reasons people give for stopping photography can be easily dismissed with reason and reference to guidelines from people such as the information commissioners office.

Good luck

David
 
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#5
So unfortunately you have to take your fight to the head teacher, governors or local education authority. Nearly all the spurious reasons people give for stopping photography can be easily dismissed with reason and reference to guidelines from people such as the information commissioners office.

Except the main one.. the disruption to the performance if everyone is bouncing about their seats, up and down the aisle, elbowing other parents and siblings aside to "get the shot".
 
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Dave
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#6
They do have a duty to look after the children in their care, and this is just the easiest way for them to do that. It is frustrating, but it is understandable. It's hard enough organising these events without the extra hassle to having to deal with the child protection issues which might arise.

Also, lots of parents are just not very respectful of the needs of the children and the other parents, and will use flash or fire off noisy shutters at the wrong time and distract the children.

If you are concerned that the official school photographer is taking pictures of your child then you can withdraw your permission and the school will ensure that your child is not photographed. This causes considerable headache for the school staff, so please don't do it unless you feel very strongly about it. It is also confusing for the child who often has no idea why they keep being told by the teachers to move out of sight when the official pictures are being taken.
 
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kokolino23
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Angelo
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#7
I can take the point for the school but not for the dance class. I don't pay any fees for the school but I do for the class. Fair enough, was my choice to enrol my daughter there but on the other hand, I feel rip off as I spent more than 1k for my gear so and now I can't use it when an important event takes place. Even at the Olympics, a stadium or any other public event we're allowed to take pics and when we pay money to a club, we can't ?! I know it's their house, their rules but is it really ?! Surely I'm not going in someone else's house to take pics. At the end of the day, it's still a public event where we pay a ticket to see a show. I'm not sure if this is allowed in a theatre but can't be National Gallery.
I know what some of you might say: "If you don't like the rules, don't get your child there" but it's not as simple as that. They invoke a law which doesn't even ban photos in such a case.
 
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kokolino23
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Angelo
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#8
On the other hand, a photographer will only take general pictures while if I'm allowed to do it myself, my child would be the priority.
 
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Martin
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#10
These days it is a minefield. I have candid photographs of children playing by a public paddling pool from the 1970's; they were taken in all innocence as a photo project but today I wouldn't even think about taking photos like this such is the paranoia over child pornography. It is sign of the times (unfortunately) that anyone with a a camera is seen as potential child molester. I am sure paedophiles have been around for centuries and they will be around for all time to come and it is unfortunate that in these present times one is guilty by association with photography of being a potential kiddy-fiddler. It is so sad that it has come to this.

My daughter has had a daughter of her own and how times have changed regarding family photos. Innocent pictures from the fifties would now be looked upon as menacing at the very least. It is almost as if I have to get a model release before I can even think about taking pictures of my grand daughter.
 
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paul
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#11
might be more in the moment rather than behind the camera.

see if you can take a few of your kid before or after the show
 
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#12
They do have a duty to look after the children in their care, and this is just the easiest way for them to do that. It is frustrating, but it is understandable. It's hard enough organising these events without the extra hassle to having to deal with the child protection issues which might arise.
Yet other schools manage it. My children's schools never put any restrictions on photographing at school events. I suspect this is more a revenue for the official photographer thing which will also benefit the school rather than a child protection thing as a a photograph of a child at a school event doesn't put a child in any danger.


Steve.
 
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Jim
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#13
rather than a child protection thing as a a photograph of a child at a school event doesn't put a child in any danger.
Steve.
It does if someone is actively looking for that child. You are not allowed to take a pic of a child under a protection order that will identify them at a specific location.
 

KIPAX

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KIPAX
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#15
How are you supposed to know?


Steve.

your not.. in a controlled enviroment such as the OP suggests..its up to whoever is in charge of the children to let you know.. you are not expected to ask every person you meet if they are protected... in an uncontrolled enviroment theres nothing you can do...
 
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Dean
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#16
my daughters local school sent out consent forms for parents to allow or not.. and at recent school awards i was able to take photos of my daughter and her class ( who also were dressed up for an Aztec day theme ) minus the kids whos parents said no.
teachers have a list of kids that cant be photographed so they just remove them from the equation.
They implemeneted this after i had discussions with the head teacher over not being allowed to shoot my daughter during football ( yup shes in the girls football team ), so this actually worked out as the best solution rather than a blanket ban.
However in Public children like adults are fair game, though i think with over sensitivity and political correctness theres a very high chance that it could end up in a confrontation of some kind.
As for santa and the kids at school, thats just exploitation because they hired a photographer as gnerally you would be in a grotto with only your kids and santta and no one elses.
 
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#17
I had this with my eldest school, no photos allowed during performances due to data protection (at first). Then when i said i didn't see how that applied in the circumstances i spoke with the head who then said child protection policies. Which was fair enough but i then ask why i could buy £2 DVD of the entire performance shot from the back of the room (so capturing everyone child in the performance) if that were the case? Or that the staff have a school camera and take photos throughout and then post them to the school blog for the world to see! Her face at the time was a picture.

Eventually they did allow some photos but it was still crap unless you were a mum on the front row with a camera phone and basically you could do what you wanted.
 
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Daniel
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#18
Some of the best photos my grandparents took of my mum and my aunties/uncles etc was when they were running around at the beach, on holiday etc. Completely candid photos. As some one else has said today, today you make yourself feel "bad" for even going near kids with a camera, even if they are your own.
 
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#19
it's not a law thing really.

Its basically their house their rules, its nothing to do with child protection just the deal the school has with the photographer.
this, plus imagine if every parent in the audience was busy trying to snap the perfect shot of their offspring. the audience would be a sea of phones and cameras.

Watch and enjoy the performance, and it's great that there's a professional photographer there who can sell you a nice print of your kid performing, so that you can concentrate on such a special performance for you.
 
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Phil
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#20
Some of the best photos my grandparents took of my mum and my aunties/uncles etc was when they were running around at the beach, on holiday etc. Completely candid photos. As some one else has said today, today you make yourself feel "bad" for even going near kids with a camera, even if they are your own.
I never feel 'bad' aiming my camera at kids, I'd love to do a study of photographers attitudes to this, sorted by age, marital status, whether they have kids, grandkids etc.

I think there are many like me, who just shrug at society's attempts to make us feel 'bad' about photos of children.
 
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Toni
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#21
I was quite comfortable photographing our children when they were growing - our son is 26 now - and will also photograph our grand children, if we get any, in public places. I shall consider it doing my bit to help redress the balance and show there is no need to live in fear.
 
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Ian
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#23
As has been said on private property, it's their rules and how they choose to apply child protection policies. When our adopted son first came to live with us under shared responsibility and a protection order the local nursery had a policy of not allowing parents to photograph during a performance and the hired photographer was careful not to photograph kids whose parents has opted out of pictures. Needless to say loads of parents cheerfully ignored the request to not take photos and filmed and snapped away merrily. Oh well!
 
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Andrew
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#24
I love the muppets who sit on the front row with camera phones and get s*** photos never to be looked at again. oh granny do you still have that hard drive from 30yrs ago?

If they say no photos, just dont take any, its not the end of the world, sit and enjoy the performance rather than looking for the best shot.
 

big soft moose

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Pete
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#25
I was quite comfortable photographing our children when they were growing - our son is 26 now - and will also photograph our grand children, if we get any, in public places. I shall consider it doing my bit to help redress the balance and show there is no need to live in fear.
inpublic places thats fine - but the thread title is misleading a school party is not a public event its a private event with admission by invitation , and the private owner can set what admission rules they like (within reason)
 
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dave
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#26
i feel sorry for kids nowadys, ive loads of pictures of me and my mates and the adventures we had when i was young, and i look back at them cherishing the memories.....my kids wont have that oportunity...such a shame
 
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kokolino23
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Angelo
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#27
The event is gone now. My daughter only had a 1 min "performance" along with some other 3 yrs old pumpkins and she kept saying "Hello, daddy!" despite my signs to be quiet :)
Anyway, I respected the rules and didn't take any photos. Most of the parents did... My issue is that a DVD with ALL the photos from this event went on sale for £10 and surely my daughter is part of it as well. So where on earth is that "child protection" ?! Surely I can buy a DVD and then share it with some other parents so I'll end up paying much less for it. That's not the point. Someone didn't have enough brain to think properly or they were taking the mick... The end part of it I just don't like as I don't usually care about someone else's brain if they can't use it on a full potential.
However, pictures with my daughter will end up in the hands of lots of other parents and even though this doesn't bother me very much, the ban of taking pictures did. At the end of the day, that's why I'm a member here... for my passion. And this was denied by someone stupid enough to think about "child protection act".
 
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#28
The event is gone now. My daughter only had a 1 min "performance" along with some other 3 yrs old pumpkins and she kept saying "Hello, daddy!" despite my signs to be quiet :)
Anyway, I respected the rules and didn't take any photos. Most of the parents did... My issue is that a DVD with ALL the photos from this event went on sale for £10 and surely my daughter is part of it as well. So where on earth is that "child protection" ?! Surely I can buy a DVD and then share it with some other parents so I'll end up paying much less for it. That's not the point. Someone didn't have enough brain to think properly or they were taking the mick... The end part of it I just don't like as I don't usually care about someone else's brain if they can't use it on a full potential.
However, pictures with my daughter will end up in the hands of lots of other parents and even though this doesn't bother me very much, the ban of taking pictures did. At the end of the day, that's why I'm a member here... for my passion. And this was denied by someone stupid enough to think about "child protection act".
I know it's just plain stupid :(
 
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#29
unless you were a mum on the front row with a camera phone and basically you could do what you wanted.


Pure amateurs! At my sons school the front row is taken up by parents videoing with high end equipment, ipads, about 10 of them!
 
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