Photographing The First Chechen War

I think they are interesting photos because of the subject (a subject I know very well), I can't say I think very much of them as photographic art.
 
No I really liked those - aside from a couple of them being very lo-res copies - the stand-out image for me was the fighter in Grozny with the loaves of bread...

My overwhelming impression is that the Russian Army still thinks it's fighting the Battle of Stalingrad...
 
Very interesting pics.

On the topic of army, in any conventional war, the russians would be defeated easily. It's only their nuclear weapons saving them.
 
onikami said:
Very interesting pics.

On the topic of army, in any conventional war, the russians would be defeated easily. It's only their nuclear weapons saving them.
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What, like in Georgia!???
Seemed pretty unequivocal to me - the Georgians, trained and equipped by the US, gets it's arse handed to it in a hand-basket...

And defeated by whom?
Ok... in a conventional war against the whole of NATO, maybe...

What an utterly stupid statement...
 
Fighting the Defence of Stalingrad? The 1st Chechen war was more like the assault on Berlin actually... and despite the total annihilation of Grozny as a city, they failed.

For this Yeltsin remains damned forever in the eyes of Russians.

Georgia? Those idiots were reminded of two things

1) Don't mess with the Bear because he will bite off your head and s*** down your neck

2) maskirovka remains an art form the West cannot seem to detect :D and despite their years as a Soviet Republic, they decided to trust their new "friends" rather than remember what most of their officers will have been trained to do.
 
desantnik said:
Fighting the Defence of Stalingrad? The 1st Chechen war was more like the assault on Berlin actually... and despite the total annihilation of Grozny as a city, they failed...
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I was referring to the visual aspects, rather than the actuality...lol
Plus the Chechen commanders were mostly Afghantsi and the Russian troops were mostly three-year conscripts... no contest...
I felt sorry for the poor basstids...sending unsupported armour into a heavily defended and rubble-ised city? What were they thinking?
 
Yes, you are right about the Afghantsi, they were not expecting those - they expected to blast the city to rubble and mop up those surrendering afterwards. They didn't bet on the enemy keeping their morale after a heavy bombardment. All the Afghantsi I know are harder than a woodpecker's lips...

Closing the loop on this discussion, the Georgians were chewed up by the 42nd GMRD, to the fore were the Vostok and Zapad battalions, who are Chechens - many of whom came over to the government side when Kadyrov swapped sides.... nasty lot and all GRU ID carriers...
 
Well they weren't going to sent in the Gorky Women's 44th Motor-Rifle Knitting and Crochet-Guards battalion this time were they?

PM on the way...
 
Being GRU, they probably were disguised as the 292nd Seperate Guards Independent Red Banner, Order of Suvorov, Shock Latrine regiment :D
 
Arkady said:
What, like in Georgia!???
Seemed pretty unequivocal to me - the Georgians, trained and equipped by the US, gets it's arse handed to it in a hand-basket...

And defeated by whom?
Ok... in a conventional war against the whole of NATO, maybe...

What an utterly stupid statement...
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OK. I should have made clear, by WESTERN armies. And if you knew anything about the russian army you would know they are badly trained conscripts with low moral and out of date tanks. No match for any decent western armed forces. The Georgia war was irrelevent as Georgia would never be able to defeat Russian in a million years given its geographical location and size.
 
You know, your assessment I believe is the same one somebody else made 70ish years ago.... ;-)
 
mmm...yes - kick in the door and the whole rotten pack of cards will come down...

Before making such assumptions, Onikami, you should check who you're talking to...lol

Western Armies...like - the Belgians maybe...?
oh wait, how about the Portuguese Army...?
no wait...how about the Dutch?

Even the modern Bundeswehr couldn't hope to do half of what their grandfathers did in 1941...


behave...
 
lol.

trust me, Ark. I know what I am talking about. The fact that you use countries like Belgium/Holland is rather bizare. When I am talking about the established countries like France etc.

As I said, trust me. As a 12 year old I predicted the annihilation of the elite Iraqi Republican Guard in 1990 while most journalists/solidiers and so called war pundits were referring to them as a "formidable force". Pfffht.

I maintain. The Russians are way behind the Nato partners in terms of military advancement and only have recently began a program to modernise. Hell they are even buying Israeli drones.
 
France? Nooo...

Anyway, not many nations in the world today equip for or train for or even *plan* for a war of aggression against a major nation. However the Russians maintain their forces to repel an invader... your earlier comment about the nukes, well, I would be fairly sure that Andora or Fiji or whoever that attacked them would be needing factor 5 million sun block back home fairly shortly after placing the first boot on the soil of the Motherland. Few other nations would I say that this might be true for, but for them, believe it.

You might not rate them, but never, ever enrage the Russians.
 
onikami said:
lol.

trust me, Ark. I know what I am talking about. The fact that you use countries like Belgium/Holland is rather bizare. When I am talking about the established countries like France etc.

As I said, trust me. As a 12 year old I predicted the annihilation of the elite Iraqi Republican Guard in 1990 while most journalists/solidiers and so called war pundits were referring to them as a "formidable force". Pfffht.

I maintain. The Russians are way behind the Nato partners in terms of military advancement and only have recently began a program to modernise. Hell they are even buying Israeli drones.
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Wait a minute...YOU said Western Armies - are you implying that the Netherlands isn't an established Western country? I think the cheese-heads might just decide to take umbrage at that...lol
We've fought the Dutch more often than we've fought the Germans by the way...lol

France? Nope - not since before WW1 have they been anything like being properly-led - they put up a hell of a fight in 1939 and 1940, it is true, but they were no match for the Blitzkrieg tactics used by the Wehrmacht...
In Indo-China thay had the will but not the manpower or air assets to keep a relatively small guerilla army from destroying several major garrisons and forcing them to capitulate...
Same story in Algeria - and they tried hard to keep that one...

You might be thinking of the way the Soviet war machine was basically well-painted rust, back in the 1980's...but now?
Nope.
They're spending more on defence than for many years and their kit is basic but effective. The command structure is formidable and ruthless. Their willingness to accept casualties makes them extremely effective - we bleat when a few soldiers are killed by IEDs here in Afghanistan, can you imagine if we were losing the equivalent of a battalion of infantry each day?
They wouldn't bat an eyelid...
 
I really dont rate the Dutch army as highly as you do.
 
...and your qualifications for that swageing statement - apart from your prescience as a 12 year old, that is...?

My point exactly, by the way - the Russians would kick them into the Zuider Zee in 30 minutes or so...
 
Just one more point before I give up on this... the soldiers you see in Chechnya will mainly be/have been units of the MVD - either paramilitary police (eg OMON) or VV MVD. When you see "soldiers" they aren't necessarily what you might think of in Western terms. There is no equivalent to the VV MVD elsewhere to my knowledge...
 
Arkady said:
The command structure is formidable and ruthless. Their willingness to accept casualties makes them extremely effective - we bleat when a few soldiers are killed by IEDs here in Afghanistan, can you imagine if we were losing the equivalent of a battalion of infantry each day?
They wouldn't bat an eyelid...
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That sentiment was as true in Stalin's time as it is now. They 'like' to play the numbers game.
 
TimSandhu said:
That sentiment was as true in Stalin's time as it is now. They 'like' to play the numbers game.
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Do you have any understanding of military science?

Ok, the simple version is this, its called last man standing. You have ten men, I have a hundred. Your men need to kill mine at ten times the rate that I need to kill yours. Probability suggests I win and remember, and this is the important bit, the idea of the game is to win.

Thats the simple version that doesn't tell you anything about the concept of deep battle, but I can bore you with that if you really want :bonk:
 
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