Beginner Photography as Career?

The-Optimist

The-Optimist

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Anthony
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Hello All,

I’m a new member here and am seeking some advice regarding studying photography and subsequently making it into a career. I’d like to get peoples’ opinions on a few things before proceeding further in my studies.

Currently, I am studying a part-time Level 2 course in Digital Photography at a local college. It is a college certificate, thus, like the Level 1 I have completed, it doesn’t have any academic clout, it’s just a crash course / introduction into general digital photography. I’m at a point where I am trying to decide whether to study further, what courses to study and even whether photography is a viable career.

So far I have spoken only to one professional photographer who runs a reasonable-sized studio in Nottingham. Her opinions on photography as a career were not quite music to my ears; to cut a long story short, it was thus:

- There’s no money in it
- Competition is fierce, particularly with bridal work, mainly because every Tom, Dick or Harry with a SLR these days thinks they’re a photographer and will viciously undercut the next guy
- There are tons of degree graduates chasing work in a very small job pool
She advised me to go attend some seminars by the SWPP and speak to as many photographers as possible there to gain some more perspective on what it’s like out there in the real photography world.

So my questions to the forum would be along the lines of:
- Is photography (in any form) a viable career?
- What might be a good next step for me? Further studying? Work experience?

All advice most welcome.

Thanks for reading,

TO
 
what sort of photography to you want to do ?

most sorts are viable although competion is usually tough , but you won't suceed without a passion for whatever you are doing, so what do you want to do ? (If the answer is "i'm not sure" then you probably arent cut out for a career in it.)

I'd also suggest (some will disagree) that if you know how to use a camera further study in photography isnt necessary to 'be a photographer' - you'd be better off studying (jn the wider sense) how to run a small buisnesss, marketting etc
 
:agree:
Plus, not every Tom dick and Harry can produce the best results, so you need to be able to set yourself apart, and build a reputation.
 
In order to make a career out of it you need to have a very firm understand of how to run a business as you will find that this is what takes up the majority of your time and effort. You definitely need to be able to take good pictures but that's only one requirement.

It's definitely a viable career but you need to be a very good business-person and unfortunately that's how a lot of people fail.
 
its also worth noting that if you rock up at a local business and say in essence "hi i'm thinking of setting up in competition to you" they are bound to tell you its not worth your time etc ;)
 
- Is photography (in any form) a viable career? Most certainly
- What might be a good next step for me? Further studying? Work experience? That all depends on what kind of photography you want to do, the last time someone asked for a choice, a couple of bored members came up with about 50 career choices. And the answer to your query could be anything from a degree in photography to - nothing, I've got some work for you this weekend.

However - you will note that most of the 'pros' here are wedding photographers, the next biggest group would be people shooting portraits, so there's not a wealth of info on many subjects - but it's worth asking.

And I will reiterate what Pete said, you'll soon get p***ed off trying to shoot something that doesn't interest you.
 
As above I'd recommend learning business and marketing. There's some stunning photographers out there that cannot market themselves and will never make a business out of it, on the flipside there are some shocking photographers that do very well from it.
 
Technical excellence has to be a given, so you'll have to get that absolutely right before you think any further. Social photography is everything to do with being a "people person" once you've nailed the technicals, and I'd humbly suggest that you either are or you aren't. I've been speaking to a close friend tonight about her daughter's wedding and lost interest about halfway through her description of the dress, so I'd be no use at wedding photography at all!
 
The-Optimist said:
So far I have spoken only to one professional photographer who runs a reasonable-sized studio in Nottingham. Her opinions on photography as a career were not quite music to my ears; to cut a long story short, it was thus:

- There’s no money in it
- Competition is fierce, particularly with bridal work, mainly because every Tom, Dick or Harry with a SLR these days thinks they’re a photographer and will viciously undercut the next guy
- There are tons of degree graduates chasing work in a very small job pool
She advised me to go attend some seminars by the SWPP and speak to as many photographers as possible there to gain some more perspective on what it’s like out there in the real photography world.
Click to expand...

If there is no money in it, how is she running a studio and paying herself? That brings us to point two, competition, some photographers will lie to your face to stop you going into it.

As for qualifications, I have none and I am sure there are more than a few here without any. There's enough resources online and in books, I did a lot of reading, my uncle was an army tog and he showed me a bit here and there, then I took lots of photos and had them ripped to shreds on here. Then rinse and repeat :)

"If you can only compete with the competition on price, you've already lost!"
 
I was once told, you can get paid for what you do, or you can get paid for what you know.
And you get paid 'cos the person paying you, either doesn't want to do it, or they don't know how to do it.
So, to earn a living wage, you either have to be prepared to do the stuff other people wont, or know how to do stuff they don't.

I was also told, you tend to get paid to do stuff that's not much fun, you have to pay to do stuff that is.
Photography, is one of them things most do as a hobby, 'cos it's 'fun'.

What 'in' photography can you do other's cant? what are you prepared to do, other's wont?
And, more; doing it for 'work' not 'fun'... will you still want to do it?
 
Hey everyone and thanks for the replies. It's all good food for thought.

big soft moose said:
what sort of photography to you want to do ?
Click to expand...

big soft moose said:
I'd also suggest (some will disagree) that if you know how to use a camera further study in photography isnt necessary to 'be a photographer' - you'd be better off studying (jn the wider sense) how to run a small buisnesss, marketting etc
Click to expand...

Phil V said:
As I said, lots of people with a narrow vet of what a career in photography means :(

Try this...Photography jobs?
Click to expand...

Teflon-Mike said:
What 'in' photography can you do other's cant? what are you prepared to do, other's wont?
And, more; doing it for 'work' not 'fun'... will you still want to do it?
Click to expand...

I think I'd be happiest doing either boudoir, food or commercial photography or digital editing and retouching. Wedding and portrait photography are of no interest to me.

I hear the emphasis of learning business skills a lot. I've already learnt a lot from co-running another non-related business; web design, marketing, social media, SEO, finances etc but may need to solidify all that with the likes of an an evening class.

I'm still finding out where my passions lie and I'm in a fortunate position where I'm able to take time to explore those. If a field of photography is one of them, then maybe it'll advance to a career. The thing is, the more I experiment and try, the more I'll know what's right for me. I've been burnt before in the past trying to make a career from a once-enjoyable hobby only for it to go badly wrong. If photography doesn't sit right with me then it'll have to just remain a hobby.

Thanks for all the input

TO
 
One of my younger friends has not long started out as a photographer, the last 3 or 4 years. He has got himself a studio and got himself a reputation. Having seen him work he is very dedicated and very much a perfectionist prepared to work for hours getting it right and getting the job done. he is making some damn good money and puts himself out, but is enjoying it. the only way is up for him and he is already befriending some big names,. It's an overcrowded market, but if you have the dedication and are prepared to strive to get on, you can do it.
 
Premier league football photographers
National newspaper photographers
Paparazzi
Sky bicycle team has a photographer - various sporting teams of all sorts of sports
Product photography - watches and jewellery, Land Rover, mobile phones, retail catalogues, online catalogues, manufacturers catalogues
Photographer/Photoshop specialists
Wildlife magazine photographers
Travel photographers

There are tons of reasonably well paid photography jobs around - it's just a question of getting your foot in the door. Much easier said than done I must admit but hopefully the above list might spark something worth pursuing.

It is better to look back on life and say, "I can't believe I did that" than to look back and say "I wish I did that".
 
most of those will be incredibly difficult to break into though , and they are mostly freelance not jobs per se .... no one is going to start out at the beging as a 'premiership league photographer' the press would just laugh at them , you start at the bottom covering minor leagues and getting paid poorly and build your reputation

the same logic is true of most everything else you list , wildlife photography for example is virtually non existent as a career , even top pro's like Andy rouse are deriving a large chunk of their income from courses, workshops, lectures, etc.. I can't think of anyone who is actually employed as a 'wildlife magazine photographer'
 
The-Optimist said:
I think I'd be happiest doing either boudoir, food or commercial photography or digital editing and retouching. Wedding and portrait photography are of no interest to me.
Click to expand...

Do you want to work for yourself, or are you looking to get a job?
 
Forget the photography courses, as an employer common sense and attitude trump them all day, and they are usually useless anyway.

Only the fortunate make a living out something they love, thankfully for us as an example, most photographers won't touch the type of stuff we do, either because it's boring, or they cannot setup for it at a scale that clients need, which I am happy with as we make a shed load of cash.

IMHO - boudoiur no cash, maybe enough to scrape by if your lucky, food/commercial difficult but not impossible.

It's all down to you.
 
As you are already mid-30's, are you employed already in a line of work? If you were genuinely interested in a photography career you could build up some work part time, and then, if you have the right employer in your current employment possibly drop down to part time so you are doing 50:50 I know a couple of people who did this, but after a couple of years returned to full time employment in their original work. Both I would describe as excellent photographers but neither as self managing business people.
 
It is a viable career depending on the path you choose. I'd say people photography is the most likely avenue to make money from, but I think there may be an upcoming trend for professional photographers to branch out into full media production including video, probably working as a freelancer. Personally I'm paid as a full-time event photographer and video producer (although my passion is landscape photography - almost unviable to make a career in now). I was very lucky to find this job but I don't think it'll last forever, many similar organisations have closed their own departments and outsourced this work.

You see a similar trend in journalism where photography is being devalued or not seen as a specialism as everyone has a camera now - pictures are sent in from the public (who aren't asking for a fee) and sometimes freelancers. In TV, cameramen are being phased out with journalists now having to work as the cameraman, reporter and editor. I think in the media world you really need strings to your bow in order to make it.

If you really want to try you're going to have to master marketing and business as well as becoming a stand out photographer. In fact the business side is much more important as most people don't know what constitutes good photography - as long as their moment has been captured, most won't notice if a picture is out of focus, has blown highlights or blocked shadows and the composition is rubbish. There are terrible wedding and event photographers in my area that get a lot of recommendations from the public, mainly as they're exceptionally cheap. It would need some marketing to get you ahead of this type, I wouldn't suggest you go down their route as I genuinely don't see how they make any money. See if you can shadow a professional on a few shoots, at least you'll learn something and be able to build up a portfolio.

I've probably waffled but hope I've been of some help!
 
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Don't look to run before you can walk. For now, take lots of pictures. LOTS. Work to put cool stuff in front of your camera, and try different things. Shoot what you enjoy doing, take along your camera to your hobbies, etc.

When people start regularly asking to pay you to take photos for them, that's probably around the time to start thinking about maybe charging money for photography. And it'll kinda go from there.
 
EdwardL said:
Premier league football photographers
National newspaper photographers
Click to expand...

Had to laugh at this one. Unless you are one of the few staff photographers at Getty, PA, then you're looking at £100 to £150 to shoot a premier league football match if you're lucky enough to be on commission, or £0 plus print sales if you make any (think £70 for a picture in The Sun). You have to cover your own expenses. And have about £25k of equipment. And a premier league game often takes 7-8 hours of your time, not 90 minutes. The big agency staff photographers made sensible money, but got those positions after years of grind and are THE BEST in the business. You don't just stroll in there.

National newspaper photographers - not many of those left now, and declining.

I think the best approach is to work out the following:

1) Who has money to buy your pictures?
2) Why will your pictures be better than anyone elses?
3) How will you win these customers over from their existing photographers?

There's always going to be a niche that you can become expert in, and then exploit. I was able to do sports photography at a high level only because I had other photography income, a decent amount of it from shooting advertising, brochure and other work for a number of private schools in my area. And even then I had another job full time to actually pay the mortgage & buy food.

So my recommendation is to first have a job that pays you a decent wage, then use your spare time to build up your photography business. At some point you may find you have the potential to earn more from photography, at which point you could switch. Otherwise you're likely to be very hungry.
 
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Sorry. but nothing p***es me of more than when some one asks about careers as a photographer that most of the answers on here are do a business course or biz studies. I have many friends who are full time Pros and never been self employed. Below is a list and all can be employed with a government body or Major Company etc.... I have always been and always will be a Photographer and for 2 thirds of my career been employed as one... Self employed is overrated.. you spend more time looking for work and marketing.......
I only ever wanted to shoot and take pictures... So being employed that's what you do.. you just shoot to corporate and client briefs....
I know some will say 'You are self employed!'' Yep but within 2 years I had someone with office skills so no paperwork for me. Another staff member to do marketing and booking. I just want to take pictures,
Last year I shot over 230 days of the year... If I did everything as a one man band it would be nowhere near that........

Employed as photographer gives you more choice as to what you want to do... I moved into many genres and loved the learning of new jobs.... where as self employed easy arts are limited Weddings family ports etc.. My least fave...

To the OP. Look around and follow your dreams......... There a lot of jobs out there.. it's just knowing where to look and know what direction you want to go in....
Photography is fantastic career and can take you into all these varied genres below.... Not many jobs you can change and move about with... you take your camera and go......into any of these fields of photography.
Best job in the World!

Archaeological Photographer
Commercial photography (Products, Advertising and Marketing imaging)
Portrait and Family photography
Wedding photography
Pet, Animal and Wildlife photography
Police, Law Enforcement and Criminal Forensic Imaging photography
Baby and Child photography
Newspaper and Magazine Photojournalism
Architectural and Real Estate Photography
Glamour and Boudoir Photography
Fashion and Modeling photography
Digital Photo Editing and Photo Retouching
Special Effects (F/X) Photography
Art Photography (including nude photography and abstract imaging)
Nature photography
Scientific photography and Educational Imaging Specialists
Photographic Artists, Technicians and Assistants
Marine and Underwater Photography and Film Specialists
Aerial Photography
Medical Photography (including Micro and Macro Photography)
Travel Photography
Culinary Arts and Food Photography
Document and Archive Photography
Sports and Adventure Photography
War Correspondent / Photographer
Stock Photography
Outdoor photography
Unit Movie stills Photographer

And if you do go the self employed route..... Yes you can make money, you can make a lot of money and enjoy your work
 
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Thanks Harvey, I just find a lot of answers so negative to help newbies out there..... running your own biz is not for everyone........Perfect scenario for a small photography business is to team up with someone who has marketing skills. work to each others strengths.... And make the career more enjoyable......

If asked would I do it again? Would I b*****ks!!!!!!! first 2 years were hardest I ever worked..... I didn't become a photographer to do graft.... Photograph chics and party.......
 
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Daryl said:
Sorry. but nothing p***es me of more than when some one asks about careers as a photographer that most of the answers on here are do a business course or biz studies. I have many friends who are full time Pros and never been self employed. Below is a list and all can be employed with a government body or Major Company etc.... I have always been and always will be a Photographer and for 2 thirds of my career been employed as one... Self employed is overrated.. you spend more time looking for work and marketing.......
I only ever wanted to shoot and take pictures... So being employed that's what you do.. you just shoot to corporate and client briefs....
I know some will say 'You are self employed!'' Yep but within 2 years I had someone with office skills so no paperwork for me. Another staff member to do marketing and booking. I just want to take pictures,
Last year I shot over 230 days of the year... If I did everything as a one man band it would be nowhere near that........

Employed as photographer gives you more choice as to what you want to do... I moved into many genres and loved the learning of new jobs.... where as self employed easy arts are limited Weddings family ports etc.. My least fave...

To the OP. Look around and follow your dreams......... There a lot of jobs out there.. it's just knowing where to look and know what direction you want to go in....
Photography is fantastic career and can take you into all these varied genres below.... Not many jobs you can change and move about with... you take your camera and go......into any of these fields of photography.
Best job in the World!

Archaeological Photographer
Commercial photography (Products, Advertising and Marketing imaging)
Portrait and Family photography
Wedding photography
Pet, Animal and Wildlife photography
Police, Law Enforcement and Criminal Forensic Imaging photography
Baby and Child photography
Newspaper and Magazine Photojournalism
Architectural and Real Estate Photography
Glamour and Boudoir Photography
Fashion and Modeling photography
Digital Photo Editing and Photo Retouching
Special Effects (F/X) Photography
Art Photography (including nude photography and abstract imaging)
Nature photography
Scientific photography and Educational Imaging Specialists
Photographic Artists, Technicians and Assistants
Marine and Underwater Photography and Film Specialists
Aerial Photography
Medical Photography (including Micro and Macro Photography)
Travel Photography
Culinary Arts and Food Photography
Document and Archive Photography
Sports and Adventure Photography
War Correspondent / Photographer
Stock Photography
Outdoor photography
Unit Movie stills Photographer

And if you do go the self employed route..... Yes you can make money, you can make a lot of money and enjoy your work
Click to expand...
I linked to your previous version of this, I also asked whether the OP wanted employment or to work for themselves...

What p***es me off more are that people who come here and ask this kind of question give very little feedback and then disappear back from whence they came.

It's almost like they had a daydream one morning, they came and asked a question, the reality dawned on them and they think 'oh it's not easy money then'. :mad:

They've never returned since posting post 13.
 
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A while ago I used to chat to a chap on line who's other half was a photographer. She got some good jobs :D with high end high profile clients who'd fly her all over the world to take a shot. One stuck in my mind and the shot was worked on post capture by a team for three weeks :D God know how much that cost :D

My point is that maybe only a tiny percentage make the stratospheric heights but obviously some do :D and who knows... the OP may be one who does :D

Sorry to intrude but just wanted to add some positivity and say good luck to the op :D
 
Phil V said:
It's almost like they had a daydream one morning, they came and asked a question, the reality dawned on them and they think 'oh it's not easy money then'. :mad:

They've never returned since posting post 13.
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Maybe it's a positive thing? One less person whose dreams are unrealistic or unachievable? Or one less person offering £50 for wedding photography? I think sometimes people need that dose of reality.
 
In photography there is no money.At least for more of the people.There are few guys who make good income, but not to many can acieve this.
In UK propbly is not the case ,but in my country we say:A grand for the camera body, 2 grand for good lenses,another grand for flash and accesories
and finaly we make pictures for free :)
So true ,dont you think?
 
Nikolay Nikolov said:
In photography there is no money.At least for more of the people.There are few guys who make good income, but not to many can acieve this.
In UK propbly is not the case ,but in my country we say:A grand for the camera body, 2 grand for good lenses,another grand for flash and accesories
and finaly we make pictures for free :)
So true ,dont you think?
Click to expand...

:D :D
 
@OP Don't do it! You'll regret it!
I'm only saying that, so when you are a rich and famous photographer, you can tell them that people (me) told you that it was a bad idea. But despite that, you went ahead and proved everyone (me) wrong.

Teflon-Mike said:
... you can get paid for what you know.
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So that's why I'm in debt!
 
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This is a very good thread to read. Your kinda like me in the sense of what to do and should i do it. I have been told by a few guys to get out there build up a portfolio to show to people. Set out a time scale say within 2-3 years you will have this and be able to do that.
 
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