Photoshop-colours are not showing as shot

[Marge3000]

Hi all - newbie here, 6d, studying photography.
Have just found an issue when opening shots to edit in photoshop and am hoping someone has a simple explanation! (user error likely!)
I like shooting with the colour settings on my camera quite vibrant, it’s become almost my own styling.

So I’m just looking at a load of photos from Peru, where there’s gorgeous vibrant blues and reds and oranges. They are showing as shot as thumbnails in file explorer. However when I open them in PS, they are at once toned down and dull and sludgy. I can see the contrast when have both windows open in explorer and PS.
It’s hugely different. White balance is: as shot
And I can’t seem to get the colouring back to what it was. I just want to make other adjustments, straighten a few, cropping etc in PS. Am rather happy with the original colours and most of the exposures (though I am new to this and am probably missing a trick!)
How do I get PS to stay faithful?
I checked and it’s RGB and North American general purpose 2 (I looked this up already)
But beyond that I’m stuck!
Thanks guys!
Happy new year!

 

[Box Brownie]

Hi & Happy New Year to you too.

Can I surmise that when you say you have set the camera to give 'the colours as you want them' you are refering to one of the user presets in camera? These presets only affect the JPEGs, for whatever reason (I am not sure?) the Windows file explorer is colour compliant but PS is not................I think I recall reading ages ago about these differences but age is against me to recall that oddity???

If so then what you are seeing PS is that it cannot and will not exactly honour the Canon presets............................if you want to see them exactly the same you will need to load the Canon software that came with the camera call DDP (or is it DPP???) that will honour and show those JPEG settings as set.

Hope that helps......................others in the know on PS will come along in due course to explain how to get as close as PS can match the settings

PS in camera is it set to sRGB or aRGB (you only say RGB in ref to PS) they are different gamuts and aRGB set JPEGs will show as dull on an sRGB monitor!

PPS just what are you set in camera:- raw; raw & JPEG; or just JPEG???

 

[Marge3000]

Hi & Happy New Year to you too.

Can I surmise that when you say you have set the camera to give 'the colours as you want them' you are refering to one of the user presets in camera?

If so then what you are seeing PS is that it cannot and will not exactly honour the Canon presets............................if you want to see them exactly the same you will need to load the Canon software that came with the camera call DDP (or is it DPP???) that will honour and show those JPEG settings as set.

Hope that helps......................others in the know on PS will come along in due course to explain how to get as close as PS can match the settings

PS in camera is it set to sRGB or aRGB (you only say RGB in ref to PS) they are different gamuts and aRGB set JPEGs will show as dull on an sRGB monitor!

PPS just what are you set in camera:- raw; raw & JPEG; or just JPEG???

Hello! Thank you for your prompt reply!
To clarify, I changed some custom settings on the 6d, turned up saturation etc. So they are shot very vividly (David LaChapelle-esque, if I may dare say!)
Windows is happy with them, just PS that changes them...

Thanks so much!

 

[the black fox]

Depends whether your shooting raw or j.peg ,the best way to look at it is a j.peg is like a colour slide ,while a raw file is a negative that needs further work .if ? Your shooting raw and want the colours to show properly there’s a new button in the tones section of lightroom that really adjusts everything for you with one click ,worth a try out

 

[Box Brownie]

Hello! Thank you for your prompt reply!
To clarify, I changed some custom settings on the 6d, turned up saturation etc. So they are shot very vividly (David LaChapelle-esque, if I may dare say!)
Windows is happy with them, just PS that changes them...

Thanks so much!

I asked for some feedback as to what version of RGB you have set in camera etc, without you answering those questions no one can give you the insight you seek. Just repeating yourself 'kind of exasperatedly.....' will not change that

Depends whether your shooting raw or j.peg ,the best way to look at it is a j.peg is like a colour slide ,while a raw file is a negative that needs further work .if ? Your shooting raw and want the colours to show properly there’s a new button in the tones section of lightroom that really adjusts everything for you with one click ,worth a try out

As Jeff echoes in part what I asked ~ tell us the details but does mention a LR setting with which I am unfamiliar mainly because I shoot raw only these days.................but if I recall it Adobes attempt to mimic the Canon JPEG settings you describe? Though he does say it is new button so I wonder which LR version he has ~ FWIW I run LR6.13

PS @Marge3000 Sam unless you tell us exactly what is asked (by me or any other responder) for, all anyone can do guess and speculate and that may be even more confusing for you!

 

[stumac]

Strangely this happened to me recently . I noticed there was an update in PS and after the update it was sorted

 

[Marge3000]

I asked for some feedback as to what version of RGB you have set in camera etc, without you answering those questions no one can give you the insight you seek. Just repeating yourself 'kind of exasperatedly.....' will not change that



As Jeff echoes in part what I asked ~ tell us the details but does mention a LR setting with which I am unfamiliar mainly because I shoot raw only these days.................but if I recall it Adobes attempt to mimic the Canon JPEG settings you describe? Though he does say it is new button so I wonder which LR version he has ~ FWIW I run LR6.13

No “exasperation” at all on my part guys!
I was just clarifying that it wasn’t a ‘preset’ as I thought you’d implied that may be a factor, rather than custom...
They were shot raw. I’ve used the auto tune in lightroom previously. They really don’t need very much further processing (to my inexperienced eye!) if they show in PS as they do in the original. And that would be a workaround rather than understand the root cause.

Maybe I’m missing a setting or is this a general PS issue that I can expect? I’m quite sure it’s user error! I just would like to know for future.

The exact settings I changed are >Picture style: sharpness, contrast, saturation, colour tone

Thanks again!

 

[Marge3000]

Strangely this happened to me recently . I noticed there was an update in PS and after the update it was sorted

Thanks for your message, Stu. Glad you got yours working ok!
I’m on 19.0 which was the October 17 release... there’s been nothing newer out...
Cheers

 

[Box Brownie]

No “exasperation” at all on my part guys!
I was just clarifying that it wasn’t a ‘preset’ as I thought you’d implied that may be a factor, rather than custom...
They were shot raw. I’ve used the auto tune in lightroom previously. They really don’t need very much further processing (to my inexperienced eye!) if they show in PS as they do in the original. And that would be a workaround rather than understand the root cause.

Maybe I’m missing a setting or is this a general PS issue that I can expect? I’m quite sure it’s user error! I just would like to know for future.

The exact settings I changed are >Picture style: sharpness, contrast, saturation, colour tone

Thanks again!

Right, as usual the devil is in the details

You shoot raw, therefore any of the camera presets (Picture Styles , I had forgotten that title) do not affect a raw file......there is however an embedded JPEG and that it seems does show the Picture Style.

The reason therefore is obvious, in PS there is no Picture Style data to interpret......i think I read somewhere that it is possible to extract the embedded thumbnail but even if you did, it is only a thumbnail! Note~ IMO this is failing on the part of Canon i.e. when shooting raw the Picture Style settings should be greyed out i.e. not accessible! Though I am fairly sure this aspect of Picture Style only being for jpegs is in the camera User Manual ~ you did read the Manual, didn't you ?

Yes user error but both in the camera setting in regard to the relationship between Picture Styles and the file type raw or jpeg. And secondly your expectations of just what PS will do.

Thinking out loud ~ Adobe have a program called DNG convertor, it converts raw to DNG but there is or was a setting in convertor to also create a full sized JPEG......if I recall this right, just maybe that jpeg will honour the Picture Settings???

 

[Marge3000]

Right, as usual the devil is in the details

You shoot raw, therefore any of the camera presets (Picture Styles , I had forgotten that title) do not affect a raw file......there is however an embedded JPEG and that it seems does show the Picture Style.

The reason therefore is obvious, in PS there is no Picture Style data to interpret......i think I read somewhere that it is possible to extract the embedded thumbnail but even if you did, it is only a thumbnail!

Thank you for your patience that makes sense... raw means... well, raw I guess!
So I should just shoot as is and then change post in PS?
I also just found something re colour settings on the camera. There’s an option for sRGB (which I’ve been shooting on) and Adobe RGB. If I understand correctly, if I’m editing in PS then I should shoot in the Adobe setting, though it does say will need to convert back to sRGB before printing or displaying on the web...
Sounds horridly inefficient!
Thanks again!

 

[Box Brownie]

Thank you for your patience that makes sense... raw means... well, raw I guess!
So I should just shoot as is and then change post in PS?
I also just found something re colour settings on the camera. There’s an option for sRGB (which I’ve been shooting on) and Adobe RGB. If I understand correctly, if I’m editing in PS then I should shoot in the Adobe setting, though it does say will need to convert back to sRGB before printing or displaying on the web...
Sounds horridly inefficient!
Thanks again!

Firstly, consider this when you shoot jpeg you are throwing data away plus as you were using Picture Style settings you also asking the camera to process the files! Now shooting raw gives you complete control over the processing in your choice of raw convertor & editor

In regard to sRGB and aRGB these are 'colour spaces' or gamut descriptions, raw does not have a colourspace, the two variants of RGB again are jpeg related. But when you post process that is where colourspace becomes important.

There are as I understand it two levels of approach,. when you process your files you need to decide on the final outcome i.e. are creating files for the web and pro lab printing of your pictures, in which case output them as sRGB. However, if you are outputting them for any other sort of printing such as magazines then aRGB is likely to be the one required. Apart from web only usage, check what your printing company requires???

Back to colourspace, your monitor has the ability to show a gamut of colours that gamut will fall within a colourspace, for most budgets the monitor will only show a sRGB gamut but there are much higher spec monitors that can show an aRGB gamut but these are quite expensive to very expensive!!!!

So unless you have very specific reason to work in aRGB, then stick with sRGB. Incidentally, when an aRGB image is viewed on an sRGB monitor the colours can look unappealing.

Hope all that helps you on the road to greater enjoyment of picture making

 

[wanilson]

Hi ya Sam,I'll state straight away I'm no expert but I am trying to help and explain in simple terms, If what you see on the back of your camera is how you like your shots, a rather slow and inefficient work around would be to convert your RAW shots in camera. the resulting JPEG should show the same in Photoshop, it is only the RAW file that will not, the in camera "style" settings only apply to JPEG's not the Raw files, just try one and see how you go, hope that's of some help and not an hindrance

 

[Furtim]

Thank you for your patience that makes sense... raw means... well, raw I guess!
So I should just shoot as is and then change post in PS?
I also just found something re colour settings on the camera. There’s an option for sRGB (which I’ve been shooting on) and Adobe RGB. If I understand correctly, if I’m editing in PS then I should shoot in the Adobe setting, though it does say will need to convert back to sRGB before printing or displaying on the web...
Sounds horridly inefficient!
Thanks again!

Hi and welcome,

You can think of it as follows...

When you take the picture the camera grabs all the data about the light hitting the sensor. If the camera is setup to shoot in raw (or raw + jpg), this is the data that ends in the raw file (the file something like IMG012345.CR2 file in Canon speak).

The camera then processes this file for you. It takes this raw data and turns it into a jpg file, and in doing so, applies any picture style you have modified. If you set the camera to shoot raw only, this jpg file is still produced but it is a bit smaller than usual and hidden inside the raw (.CR2) file. It's this jpg file that the camera will show on the back of the camera, and this jpg file that will appear as the thumbnail when you load the files onto your computer.

If you choose to shoot jpg + raw at the same time, a larger, higher-res version of the jpg file is also saved to a separate file like IMG012345.jpg

Jpg files contain less information than raw files, and so are smaller and consequently quicker to load. Whether the missing information is important for you is a personal choice, and there is no right answer here (but a lot of opinions).

When you open the raw file in photoshop as you appear to be doing, it basically ignores the built in jpg file and shows the raw information, whereas when you show the file in finder, it ignores the raw data and shows the jpg preview because it's quicker.

Not to confuse the issue with colour spaces / gamuts etc as mentioned earlier in the thread. They are unrelated in so far as your issue. In simple terms a colour space is just a set of colours that your monitor or printer can display. Some monitors / printers can display more colours than others, so there are different standards defined to make it a bit easier in making sure everything lines up.

 

[Phil V]

From above you have the ‘why’, here’s the ‘fix’ for the future.

Shoot Raw + JPEG, The jpeg will give you a full sized image with all your colour changes, it’ll allow for cropping etc. Then should you require more from your files, you’ll have the original Raw file to work on, you can spend some time in LR developing your own preset that’ll match your camera JPEGs.

Lightroom is the better tool for this, whilst you can make the same changes in PS, the PS Raw converter offers nowhere near as sophisticated a toolset as Lightroom.

 

[the black fox]

As far as I,m aware the only p/p method that will show your raw styles in a as shot picture styles way is canons DPP ,which is a free download from canon.u.k .if you haven’t formatted your memory card I suggest downloading it and trying

 

[Nostromo]

You could, in lightroom use the camera profile settings at the bottom of the development module to give you a base setting and then go from there.

 

[jerry12953]

It does sound like a RAW v JPEG thing. As stated above, the screen on the back of your camera will show you a JPEG and you have adjusted the in-camera settings to get the colour treatment that you prefer.

When you open the image up in PS you see the RAW file and you need to develop/adjust it yourself to get your preferred result.

Personally I use Lightroom and if you have access to that you'll probably find it easier to use than PS.

 

[Byker28i]

From above you have the ‘why’, here’s the ‘fix’ for the future.

Shoot Raw + JPEG, The jpeg will give you a full sized image with all your colour changes, it’ll allow for cropping etc. Then should you require more from your files, you’ll have the original Raw file to work on, you can spend some time in LR developing your own preset that’ll match your camera JPEGs.

Lightroom is the better tool for this, whilst you can make the same changes in PS, the PS Raw converter offers nowhere near as sophisticated a toolset as Lightroom.

Shoot Raw+jpeg - or just jpeg if you think you can get it right in camera and only require a few changes in Lightroom.
Or create a custom profile/settings in liggtroom to repeat the processing from your camera. You should be able to read off the settings in the camera and repeat.

 

[Defiance]

https://photographylife.com/how-to-get-accurate-canon-colors-in-lightroom

The above link may help to explain your issue and provide ideas on solutions.

 

[PhilH04]

As far as I,m aware the only p/p method that will show your raw styles in a as shot picture styles way is canons DPP ,which is a free download from canon.u.k .if you haven’t formatted your memory card I suggest downloading it and trying

This... DPP will read convert as per your camera settings and then open the converted file in Photoshop
No faffing around trying to match the embedded JPEG...

 

[Phil V]

As far as I,m aware the only p/p method that will show your raw styles in a as shot picture styles way is canons DPP ,which is a free download from canon.u.k .if you haven’t formatted your memory card I suggest downloading it and trying

I’d clear forgotten about DPP, it’s all I used for years for my Raw conversions, it’ll give the OP exactly what she wants.

 

[Jase]

Haven't read all the above, but by the sound of it you don't want to do much editing, so stick with lightroom.

As was said above you could always shoot in RAW+JPG, however if using lightroom you may just want to change the profile under camera calibration to one of the camera pre-sets and do a little tweaking. Save that as a preset and next time you import your photos just choose that preset at the import stage and it will be applied to your photos.

 

[Marge3000]

Thank so much guys for all your messages. I’m really feeling the love as a newbie and appreciate all your support and knowledge!
I shall speak to my tutor but the materials I have state we must shoot raw and edit in PS... (i’d guess they specify that so a) people have a raw file to work with for maximum flexibility? And b) to specify that there will be requirement for pp editing... rather than being prescriptive as such.

I shall: shoot in raw + jpeg till I get clarity, look at making a custom preset in LR, download DPP.

...and no doubt be calling on you all for more help soon!
Thanks a mill x

 

[PhilH04]

shall speak to my tutor but the materials I have state we must shoot raw and edit in PS...

You can still convert your raw file in Canon's DPP which will read your camera settings from the file and convert to match the JPEG (embedded in the raw file) you are seeing on the camera etc., it will then open in Photoshop for further editing.

As it is a standard 'workflow' there should be no problem in meeting the course requirements... DPP simply take the place of ACR (Adobe Camera Raw).

 

[Craig_85]

This has already been answered but just a couple of points.

Essentially you are shooting raw but the picture profile and tweaks you have made to it are only being applied to the jpeg preview you are seeing in the back of the camera and in explorer.

Now canons own raw converter can read the as shot tweaked picture profile for you, so using this as a raw converter to create tiffs for working on in PS is a viable option. ACR (adobe camera raw) which photoshop uses to covert the raw files does not have access to the as shot tweaked profile. So you need to find a starting point in the camera calibration tab and re tweak from there.

That summarises the answer to your problem, but I also want to mention colour management. Is your monitor calibrated by a colorimeter? Another difference you will see even between a dpp converted tiff as a jpeg preview in explorer and that same file in photoshop is that PS is colour managed and explorer is not. But don't worry about this, just get your monitor calibrated.

And finally I think you should question your approach in camera. Not saying it is wrong at all, just think about the following.

I, and a lot for others treat the raw file as a digital negative. Whilst you can undo all of your tweaks, and actually that sounds like what acr has been doing, to get back to the uncooked version another approach would be to start off with a very flat raw file and add the colour/contrast/sharpness etc in post processing.

The advantages of this is really more linked to accurate exposure, I'm sure you will learn all about histograms (inc rgb ones) in due course. But essentially your histogram is a 21st century light meter, in image playback it gives an almost instant appreciation of the achieved exposure showing how bright the different levels of the scene have been recorded. From here you can then tweak your exposure to get the best signal to noise ratio. As a canon shooter learn about ETTR.

The advantage of doing this with a neutral picture style is it is more accurate and shows closer to the true potential of the raw file. With a tweaked profile it will clip sooner and may trick you into underexposing.

In post you then add the colour contrast etc in an additive controlled way pulling exposure back as you need to.

The advantage of your way instead, especially if you move to dpp is less processing and if in your head you see the scene and pre visualise the shot in an over cooked way you might prefer the simplicity. (But I bet in a few years you will re process the raws more sympathetically...!)