Pixel King Hypersync Results!!!

Thanks for the comments guys, with regard to the power settings Garry, i'm fairly sure I have it correct, at power 5.0 Channel A should be giving 800ws, for each 10 clicks down on the scale is 1 stop less output on the meter, so Surley this would be half the w/s..? making 4.0- 400ws and 3.0- 200ws, 2.0 - 100ws, 1.0 - 50ws

or am I missing something.:(:(
 
I just double checked with my meter to make sure I wasn't dreaming this...haha

Strobe bounced up to the ceiling with Sekonic Meter on my desk....

socket A only

1.0 - F5.6
2.0 - F8
3.0 - F11
4.0 - F16
5.0 - F22

Channel A+B
5.0 - F29
 
Hbomb69, Thanks for sharing your results and Info.
Looks great to me, how much more powerful is one of those lights compared to a 580 speedlight ?

What is the censensus of opinion regarding all this ?
 
Mitch38 said:
Hbomb69, Thanks for sharing your results and Info.
Looks great to me, how much more powerful is one of those lights compared to a 580 speedlight ?

What is the censensus of opinion regarding all this ?
Click to expand...

Mitch38, you probably heard it many times before, but the two cannot really be compared. The op's light source is a studio strobe that runs off a battery pack, the 580 is a speedlight. There are major differences in area of light coverage, duration of flash, etc.

But very roughly speaking, in terms of energy the 580 is 50Ws, the Op's strobe can go up to 1200Ws. So quite a bit stronger :)
 
Benfenech said:
Mitch38, you probably heard it many times before, but the two cannot really be compared. The op's light source is a studio strobe that runs off a battery pack, the 580 is a speedlight. There are major differences in area of light coverage, duration of flash, etc.

But very roughly speaking, in terms of energy the 580 is 50Ws, the Op's strobe can go up to 1200Ws. So quite a bit stronger :)
Click to expand...

A lot more than that, like double. 580EX is about 100-120Ws equiv. Nikon SB900 a bit more still, but still a long way behind a big studio head.
 
Thanks, so is there a reason not to be excited about this product.
And how the kings appear to allow "hypersync"

How does it campare pricewise and quality wise with similar products, and is it available in the UK ?
 
Mitch38 said:
Thanks, so is there a reason not to be excited about this product.
And how the kings appear to allow "hypersync"

How does it campare pricewise and quality wise with similar products, and is it available in the UK ?
Click to expand...

The Jinbei Discovery is excellent value for money, you can get it from foto-morgen (Germany) or Foto Konijnenberg (Netherlands). I used Foto Morgen for the lower spec package ((Discovery 600) and had no trouble, package arrived in a few days. Cannot comment on after sales.

Alternatively you can get an improved version of this from Lencarta, plus the excellent local support they are renowned for (at least that's what I hear :) )
 
HoppyUK said:
A lot more than that, like double. 580EX is about 100-120Ws equiv. Nikon SB900 a bit more still, but still a long way behind a big studio head.
Click to expand...

Are they really that powerful? I read conflicting evidence...your numbers make them close to Quantums.
 
Benfenech said:
Are they really that powerful? I read conflicting evidence...your numbers make them close to Quantums.
Click to expand...

I've tested and checked a few, and Quantums too.

Quantum's website estimates of speedlitght power are way out of date, and figures for their own products are inflated. They may well have the quoted power in the capacitors, but that doesn't always translate to light output and IGBT type flashes struggle to match the same sort of light as you get from conventional studio heads of equivalent quoted power.
 
Yeah I agree with Richard, I estimated my 580ex to be around 120-150w when used at a 35mm zoom direct at the subject. Once but into a brolly box or soft box, they do loose there efficiency compared to strobes. I'm thinking a lot of there equiv output is down to the fresnel reflector they use.:)

I did Read the actual output is more like 50- 75ws, but the reflector deisgn and zoom function can put out upto 150ws equiv.:)
 
Benfenech said:
The Jinbei Discovery is excellent value for money, you can get it from foto-morgen (Germany) or Foto Konijnenberg (Netherlands). I used Foto Morgen for the lower spec package ((Discovery 600) and had no trouble, package arrived in a few days. Cannot comment on after sales.

Alternatively you can get an improved version of this from Lencarta, plus the excellent local support they are renowned for (at least that's what I hear :) )
Click to expand...

Yeah, got mine from foto konijnenberg....2 day delivery and no import duty as in the EU....agree about the aftercare, as I have not had to use it .(touch wood):|
 
hbomb69 said:
Yeah I agree with Richard, I estimated my 580ex to be around 120-150w when used at a 35mm zoom direct at the subject. Once but into a brolly box or soft box, they do loose there efficiency compared to strobes. I'm thinking a lot of there equiv output is down to the fresnel reflector they use.:)

I did Read the actual output is more like 50- 75ws, but the reflector deisgn and zoom function can put out upto 150ws equiv.:)
Click to expand...

My power estimate on a 580EX at 100-120Ws equivalent is based on the kind of light levels produced by more than twenty different studio heads when fired into an identical modifier, in this case a Lastolite 100cm Umbrellabox. Because it is both reverse firing and has a diffuser front, and can be fitted to any light, it presents a very level playing field.

Power output is not the main problem with speedlights compared to studio heads. It's slow recycle times at the sort of levels that you often have to run them at, and lack of a modelling light. I hardly ever run my studio heads flat out, you just don't need big power these days, not for regular portraiture and stuff.
 
Hi Homb,

just some questions:
Does the hyper sync really work with every power setting of the strobes?

I bought some Kings and was really disappointed compared to the results I had with my Pocket Wizards.

How many flashes can you shoot with the Jinbei at full power?
Is it really a LiIon Battery? No memory effect?

Sorry I don´t know if this was already discussed:)
 
French Man said:
Hi Homb,

just some questions:
Does the hyper sync really work with every power setting of the strobes?

I bought some Kings and was really disappointed compared to the results I had with my Pocket Wizards.

How many flashes can you shoot with the Jinbei at full power?
Is it really a LiIon Battery? No memory effect?

Sorry I don´t know if this was already discussed:)
Click to expand...

Hi There, yes the hypersync using the Pixel Kings seems to stay consistent on all power settings..:)

Some details/specs of the unit, i have not took note or tested the full Power amount of flashes, but it does mention 250 on this website, seeing as 600w give around 500, this seems about right. And yes it is Li-on battery on this unit.

http://www.thestudiooutfitters.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=350
 
Benfenech said:
For those of you who like me don't know much about hypersync, this makes an interesting read...
Www.pocketwizard.com/inspirations/technology/hypersync_fpsync/
Click to expand...

There's a lot of good stuff on the PW site.

But there are two kinds of hypersync, tail and peak, and they are completely different. Tail is the one being talked about here, and peak hypersync (exclusive to PW I think) allows you to use slighly faster than normal x-sync speeds but with no loss of light or any unevenness. Like a 7D will run at 1/400sec instead of the usual 1/250sec limit.

Also on that link, the motocross shot by Dave Black. It doesn't mention that fact that he uses a rig with eight SB900 guns to get the power he needs. I would also put money on the fact that he's using regular HSS/FP sync and not hypersync for that shot ;)
 
HoppyUK said:
There's a lot of good stuff on the PW site.

But there are two kinds of hypersync, tail and peak, and they are completely different. Tail is the one being talked about here, and peak hypersync (exclusive to PW I think) allows you to use slighly faster than normal x-sync speeds but with no loss of light or any unevenness. Like a 7D will run at 1/400sec instead of the usual 1/250sec limit.
Click to expand...

So if I understand correctly, PW do peak hypersync, Pixel do tail hypersync? Any triggers that do both?

Also, PW say that they can deliver hypersync by storing timing info for many different camera (and strobe/flash?) models and you can tweak settings further yourself. Do the Kings also have preset and/or user adjustable timings?
 
Benfenech said:
So if I understand correctly, PW do peak hypersync, Pixel do tail hypersync? Any triggers that do both?

Also, PW say that they can deliver hypersync by storing timing info for many different camera (and strobe/flash?) models and you can tweak settings further yourself. Do the Kings also have preset and/or user adjustable timings?
Click to expand...

PW Mini/Flex system does both peak and tail hypersync. I think that's the only one.

Peak hypersync tailors the x-sync timing very exactly to each camera model. It basically exploits the often generous timing window that camera manufacturers build in so that their systems work reliably with every possible combination of flash/camera/lens. Canon 1D4 for example can run cleanly up to 1/500sec.

Tail hypersync varies a lot depending on the flash used, the power settings, and the camera too. It basically uses the HSS trigger moment which fires the flash fractionally before the shutter opens. So when used with tail-hypersync, by the time the shutter opens the flash has already passed it's peak brightness and what is left is the tail that decays relatively slowly as the shutter travels down the sensor.

You can get tail hypersync quite easily without radio triggers. You need a gun on-camera set to HSS and an optical slave picking that up and firing a remote flash. It's the same technique used for extracting second-curtain sync that is not available remotely with Canon's native E-TTL implementation.
 
The Pixel King uses HSS ("flat light") when it detects an HSS-capable flash. Otherwise it uses a form of "hypersync". The user is unable to alter the timing offset from the shutter-about to-open signal from the camera. Instead the King uses a lookup table.

If the flash model is unidentified or not in the lookup table, it seems that the lamp burn starts immediately. In this case, the burn is well past the peak, so only the tail remains. 1/1 power is normally required. (Unless, its a low-power YN560, which doesn't last the 2mS it takes for the rear curtain to clear the sensor!)
 
hbomb69 said:
Hi There, yes the hypersync using the Pixel Kings seems to stay consistent on all power settings..:)

Some details/specs of the unit, i have not took note or tested the full Power amount of flashes, but it does mention 250 on this website, seeing as 600w give around 500, this seems about right. And yes it is Li-on battery on this unit.

http://www.thestudiooutfitters.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=350
Click to expand...

Are both the 600 and the 1200 packs the same (they both seem to say 600)and the difference is in the heads or is it just a standard promo pic they use and there is a 1200 pack ?
 
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HoppyUK said:
You can get tail hypersync quite easily without radio triggers. You need a gun on-camera set to HSS and an optical slave picking that up and firing a remote flash. It's the same technique used for extracting second-curtain sync that is not available remotely with Canon's native E-TTL implementation.
Click to expand...

Cool! Can it be any optical slave (cheap ones on the bay), or are some better than others? These things must have some latency.
 
Any old optical slave will do. No latency that I'm aware of.

I use it to fire a radio trigger so there's delay there - not necessarily a bad thing. Ideally you would be able to adjust the exact timing for different flashes and power outputs and cameras. Go early and it will maximise brightness, but also fall-off down the tail. Compromise.

Key to tail-sync is a very powerful flash with a long duration to start with. That gives you usable output when reduced by this technique, and a relatively flat fall-off for more eveness.

BTW, tail-sync only works with hot-shoe guns at full power.
 
CScottMcQueen said:
Are both the 600 and the 1200 packs the same (they both seem to say 600)and the difference is in the heads or is it just a standard promo pic they use and there is a 1200 pack ?
Click to expand...

the 1200 pack is taller than the 600 pack by about 2", also a bit heavier....but not that heavy :):)

heads on both 600 & 1200 are the same size, just different ratings.

Mike
 
hbomb69 said:
the 1200 pack is taller than the 600 pack by about 2", also a bit heavier....but not that heavy :):)

heads on both 600 & 1200 are the same size, just different ratings.

Mike
Click to expand...

Thanks Mike, by the looks of it you can plug the 600 head and the 600 ringflash into the 1200 pack.

A 1200 pack, 1200 head and a 600 head & 600 Ringflash looks like a great all rounder kit as long as it does actually work :)
 
CScottMcQueen said:
Thanks Mike, by the looks of it you can plug the 600 head and the 600 ringflash into the 1200 pack.

A 1200 pack, 1200 head and a 600 head & 600 Ringflash looks like a great all rounder kit as long as it does actually work :)
Click to expand...

The way I understand it is that the 600 and 1200 share the same battery and head housing, but different generators and flash tubes.

You might be risking blowing the 600 tube if you run it off the A port of the 1200 at the setting No.5. Should be safe to use off the B port. Make sure you can distinguish between the two heads.
 
Benfenech said:
The way I understand it is that the 600 and 1200 share the same battery and head housing, but different generators and flash tubes.

You might be risking blowing the 600 tube if you run it off the A port of the 1200 at the setting No.5. Should be safe to use off the B port. Make sure you can distinguish between the two heads.
Click to expand...

Yer, that's what I was thinking too, maybe some tape or a bit of paint on the head.
 
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