1. freecom2

    freecom2

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    We have managed to identify two distinct camps in this thread:
    1. Those who have an XPan and bought before the prices rocketed
    2. Cheapskates who think medium format is better :D

    Apart from @FujiLove has anyone else bought recently?
     
  2. StephenM

    StephenM

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    Stephen
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    I haven't but I'm beginning to find the idea interesting; on the other hand I wonder about a 10x8 conversion for bigger panoramas...

    The last few posts have started to make me wonder about an XPan though.
     
  3. joxby

    joxby

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    8,183
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    John
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    Lets face it, they are expensive for what they are, but its about more than just 24x65
    Its an rf for starters so its compact relatively...errr...I was gonna go on but everyone knows what it is and what it does, I'm gonna cut to the chase, the top and bottom of it is, there isn't anything else, its a cornered market and besides it being bladd and zeiss, that's a big reason why its value has escalated, it has no competition.
    The decision is really about whether you want one enough to pay the man market value, there isn't an argument against buying one tbh, except the price tag.
    Sorry, its harsh I know but ya can't put a price on happiness, that's what my SO say's anyway....lol
     
  4. Retune

    Retune

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    757
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    Heretical suggestion: Keep the 24mm and buy a D800 body for half the price of the Xpan. You'll have about the same angle of view as the Xpan 45mm, and a crop to the Xpan aspect ratio will still leave you with about 20MP, which is plenty for a high quality print.
     
  5. joxby

    joxby

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    8,183
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    John
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    No

    [​IMG]


    :)
     
  6. ChrisR

    ChrisR

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    Heresy indeed! ... better watch out... no-one expects the Spanish Inquisition!
     
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  7. Retune

    Retune

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    I totally deserve that!
     
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  8. Retune

    Retune

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    757
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    'Our two weapons are surprise, fear and an almost fanatical devotion to Tri-X...'
     
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  9. FruitFlakes

    FruitFlakes

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    Lloyd
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    The problem with that is you still get the same rectilinear distortion as a 24mm. The lack of distortion on the XPan is one of the main draws.

    Like @joxby said, it's pretty much the only game in town and I wish I started playing it earlier.
     
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  10. Retune

    Retune

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    <INNOCENTLY>But surely you can fix that in Photoshop?</INNOCENTLY>

    I'm going to stop now :)
     
  11. skysh4rk

    skysh4rk

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    RJ
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    To my knowledge, it's not Hasselblad and Zeiss for the body and lens manufacturing of the XPan, but actually Fuji... and Fuji again...
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2018
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  12. FruitFlakes

    FruitFlakes

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    Lloyd
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    Photoshop makes everything look even stretchier sadly. You won’t be able to tell the difference with far away subjects/landscapes but once you introduce some depth/perspective the distortion becomes obvious.
     
  13. soeren

    soeren

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    931
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    Soeren
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    And the Church of Rodinal.
     
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  14. FujiLove

    FujiLove

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    From reading around the history of the Xpan, it seems it was an entirely Hasselblad concept and the body was also designed by the Swedes. Fuji was brought in as a manufacturing partner on the understanding they could sell the camera under the TX name in Japan. As far as I can tell, the lenses were entirely Fuji designs...which makes sense, seeing as they have a long history of making fantastic medium and large format optics. Fundamentally, the Xpan is a Hasselblad...in same the way an iPhone is an Apple (even though it's made by Foxxcon in China!)
     
  15. gazmorton2000

    gazmorton2000

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    Gareth (Not Gary!)
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    That's still about 20mp too many for my liking. :)

    Erm yes, I have! Ha.

    So after all this thread, I was browsing a FB group yesterday and one popped up at the right price with 45mm and 90mm, all boxed in excellent condition and including the centre spot filter. A 6 hour round trip to Milton Keynes later and I have an XPan. Expect a report soon to how well (or not) it is going and if I don't get on with it, expect it in the classifieds. Ha.
     
  16. FujiLove

    FujiLove

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    Excellent news :)

    I'm looking forward to seeing the results.
     
  17. ChrisR

    ChrisR

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    Pics or it didn't happen!!!

    Just thinking, if you're still doing weddings this could be great for that massive group shot with all the in-laws (had to stand in 6 of those over the past couple of year!)...

    Yes indeed!
     
  18. gazmorton2000

    gazmorton2000

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    If it's anything like my last roll of 35mm, it's destined for the bin. Ha.

    It definitely has happened. My bank account agrees. :(

    I have actually chosen to given up weddings now unfortunately. Thought I would take a year out and see how I feel about it.
     
  19. gazmorton2000

    gazmorton2000

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    Just got my first scans back from this lovely camera and there’s now way I’m selling it!
     
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  20. StephenM

    StephenM

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    So the scans are at 0mp? :D :exit:
     
  21. FujiLove

    FujiLove

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    Glad to hear you're enjoying the Xpan. Really happy with mine too. Off to Iceland with it tomorrow :)
     
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  22. gazmorton2000

    gazmorton2000

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    :ROFLMAO: not getting into that one again.

    Awww I am jealous. I LOVE Iceland so much. Enjoy. :)
     
  23. andy1868

    andy1868

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    Andy
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    Can we see some scans then Gaz? :D
     
  24. gazmorton2000

    gazmorton2000

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    Haven't decided if I am going to host them anywhere/show them yet, Andy. :)
     
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  25. jojo90

    jojo90

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    Had an XPan for a while, only regret is selling before the price rocketed, not that I sold it. For me film is such a PITA that even tho I still own some decent film cameras I rarely shoot + have loads of expired film / undeveloped rolls. Nearly bought an M7 at the weekend but talked myself out of it... M9 + VSCO and you’re pretty much there.

    It’s a nice thing to own, but I’m in no hurry to buy another.

    You could just buy one, get bored, then sell for little loss?
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2018
  26. ChrisR

    ChrisR

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    I don't think he's actually read the thread, or noted which part of the forum it's in....:rolleyes::mad:
     
  27. FujiLove

    FujiLove

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    ...in the land of meh.
     
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  28. FruitFlakes

    FruitFlakes

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    Lloyd
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    Bordered by the United States of Battery Pull Resets and the Democratic Republic of Sensor Corrosion.

    The M10 on the other hand... Maybe in a few years once used prices go down.
     
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  29. Woodsy

    Woodsy POTY Winner 2009

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    I really fail to get the 'Leica' thing. Can someone explain it to me?
     
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  30. srichards

    srichards

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    Suz
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    They're expensive so you can feel superior while owning a new one :) That's it.

    I tried a cheap second hand one and didn't like it much as it weighed a ton. It did produce nice pictures and the summicron lenses do seem to have something about them.
     
  31. ChrisR

    ChrisR

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    Partly what Suz says, partly the reputation for quality, partly the rangefinder thing. Maybe part of the allure is also the "old school technology" thing (RF focusing) which presumably is partly what motivates us as well?
     
  32. gazmorton2000

    gazmorton2000

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    Had a Leica M2 once and sold it. Won't be making that mistake again. Love my Leica.
     
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  33. mdjchat

    mdjchat

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    I came to own a Leica after years of using SLR's. For me I appreciate the different experience of using a viewfinder/ rangefinder and have found that it's easier to compose with. They are premium products and the feel (and weight) of them is pleasant. I think that in this day and age when everything is made to be disposable it's nice to use something that has been made to outlast it's owner(s).
     
  34. Nomad Z

    Nomad Z

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    Leica M2 compared to a Nikon FM...

    Bodies weigh almost exactly the same - about 600g for the FM, and 580g for the M2. The M2 is about the same size as the SLR body without the pentaprism or extended lens mount...

    M2 + FM 01.jpg

    M2 + FM 02.jpg

    M2 + FM 03.jpg

    The Leica's top plate is a bit higher than the Nikon's, and it's a smidge fatter front-to-back, but that's about it apart from the obvious SLR protrusions.

    In terms of weight in real-world use, I usually have a Tokina 25-50mm f4 on the Nikon...

    FM Real World.jpg


    ...and a Voigtlander 35mm f2.5 Color Skopar (LTM with M adapter), and an M grip on the Leica...

    M2 Real World.jpg


    Whether or not the Leica is considered big and heavy depends entirely on what it's being compared to. Certainly bigger and heavier than small rangefinders like the Olympus 35RC, but the latter isn't a full-fat interchangeable lens camera while the Leica is. I think comparing it to a compact SLR is more realistic. Given that I don't have a 35mm prime for the Nikon, and that the Tokina is probably bigger and heavier, I'd say there's very little in it. If the 50mm Pentax prime I have is more representative at 200g, the Nikon with a small prime lens would come down to just about the same as the Leica with the Skopar & grip. It would still be a bit more bulky overall, but in terms of actual shooting, it's neither here nor there - I shoot medium and large format as well, and class both of these as small hand cameras.

    Aside from the functional SLR and rangefinder differences, the Leica feels much more refined. When I got the FM, I was surprised at how ratchety and noisy the film advance was - the Leica is nearly silent. The Leica's shutter noise is a very quiet snick, while there is the added mirror slap in the SLR. In terms of feel, the mirror movement is quite obvious - you can feel the weight moving around, but there's none of that with the Leica. I'm much more confident about hand-holding at slow speeds with the Leica than I am with the Nikon (eg, 1/4 sec).

    With regard to the Leica 'thing', if it exists at all, it's probably mostly in people's heads. There is certainly the history - Leitz effectively invented 35mm photography as we know it, and it just so happened that the cameras they made for that format were of outstanding quality. The cameras have stood the test of time over nearly a century in a way that very few others have. In physical terms, perhaps the Leica thing is evident in the feel of the cameras - they're very smooth and slick. The FM feels like a well made, slightly workmanlike camera, while the M2 has class and refinement that's on another level. By 'class', I mean the approach to design and manufacture - the film advance doesn't need to be that smooth and quiet, but they made it that way anyway. If a Zenit feels agricultural compared to the FM, then there is an element of the FM feeling agricultural compared to the M2.

    While I quite like the history of Leitz/Leica, and admire the sheer quality of the classic products, it's still just a camera, albeit one that's a pleasure to use. For me, it's not really about the Leica 'thing', but simply about using a very high quality bit of kit. I started with a Barnack Leica - a IIIf - and was impressed with the build quality, but not so much with the quirky old-school controls and layout (fun to use, but not 'serious'). So, after some research, I went for an M2 because it was a 'modern' camera (lever wind, standard shutter speeds, better finder, etc). As a picture taking tool, it doesn't get in the way - extremely intuitive and transparent.

    Ultimately, it's down to what you expect or want from a camera. In the 35mm rangefinder world, the Leica M is the top of the tree.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2018
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  35. skysh4rk

    skysh4rk

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    And therein lies the puzzling thing for me; the Leica rangefinders, no matter how nice they are, are still wholly in the realm of 135 format. For the sorts of money that some of their cameras go for, you can get some really great medium format rangefinders that will blow the socks off any Leica in terms of results. The restriction to the terrible 3:2 aspect ratio further rules them out from my perspective.
     
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  36. Woodsy

    Woodsy POTY Winner 2009

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    Jonathan
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    My issue personally is that, aside from build - which is a little silly in itself, as I'm betting an F5 (for example) can stand up to just the same amount of hammering if not more - there seems to be no quantifiable reason for the price premium of a Leica. I should also point out that, a Nikon FM can be had for £50, whereas a Leica M2 goes for £400++?

    And otherwise, I completely agree with RJ regarding the MF comparison. I'd sooner have a Mamiya 6 or 7 any day, if a rangefinder was something I was after.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2018
  37. Woodsy

    Woodsy POTY Winner 2009

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    Anyway, I have just realised I've derailed the thread. Apologies.

    Show us some scans @gazmorton2000! :)
     
  38. soupdragon

    soupdragon

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    881
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    Tony
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    I have not read all the entries in this thread.
    Have you considered the Hasselblad SWC.
     
  39. Woodsy

    Woodsy POTY Winner 2009

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    You may want to have read the thread ;)
     
  40. gazmorton2000

    gazmorton2000

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    I thought you might respond. :) I know your thoughts with regards to 35mm and I totally get what you mean.
    35mm still has a little something for me and I enjoy shooting it.

    It will stand the same amount of hammering, I’m sure you’re right however, will the electronics still be functioning in 60 years like my M3 is?

    I do get the arguments against 35mm and for MF but for me, it’s small and quick and easy to use and the image quality is very good as far as 35mm goes. I still have a thing for 35mm.

    Still not sure about that. My photography lets the format down.

    Shane you haven’t read the thread then.
     

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