Polarizers?

excalibur2

excalibur2

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Brian
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Well we all know what they are mainly used for, but also they can be used for cutting through haze..........we have all seen a scene on a sunny day and thought "it would be a great shot if it wasn't so muggy\hazy" . Well I've forgotten the answer for how good they are for cutting through haze, so anyone used a polarizer for this?
I'm going to do some tests for a distant view with\without a polarizer to see how much difference it makes, the T70 shows I just lose a stop for the polarizer I'm going to use on a 135mm lens (I have about six different sizes) maybe there are "stronger" polarizers? but can't be bothered to check everyone.
 
Bright and sunny is fine for polarizers to cut through haze.
Useless if it is overcast.
 
kendo1 said:
Bright and sunny is fine for polarizers to cut through haze.
Useless if it is overcast.
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Well yes but how good is it...as I wouldn't expect a very hazy scene to be crystal clear so maybe is ok for a slight haze...anyway I'm guessing unless I do some film tests or maybe a member in the countryside could use his digi :eek: for some tests (well assuming sensors are similar to film) as who knows what's in the air around outer London :(

My test would be like this to see if a polarizer can cut through the crap to make the city of London clearer.
 
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Any excuse to take a pic :)
Good luck!
 
excalibur2 said:
H'mm my Photoshop doesn't have "camera raw filter" but removing haze seems a bit more complicated on the computer compared to using a polarizer....but have no idea which is better.
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In camera is always better.
It's difficult to alter film after the exposure :)
 
Well did a few tests today and went straight to Asda for results....h'mm well if you are going to use a polarizer for scenery you'll have to take a saucer of water with you as even in the blue sky I couldn't see a difference with the polarizer on\off. lucky there was a pool of water on the viewing platform and could use that :rolleyes:
The polarizer does work slightly cutting through haze but couldn't cut through the crap hovering around the city of London, but still the distant buildings were slightly clearer. So a polarizer IMO would be better where the air is cleaner with only a slight natural haze.
 
Sounds to me like the polarizer was working as a UV filter.

I vote for a retest!
 
It would be nice to have a group test for an overall\average conclusion to show how good is a polarizer for cutting through haze....well the rate filmies use up a film (cough summer backlog thread) it might be better for the digi guys to answer :D
 
...and I take it you were adjusting it accordingly??

You'll see a big difference using a CPL shot for shot when correctly used.
 
stevelmx5 said:
I take it you were shooting with the sun at 90 degrees to you Brian? If not, the polariser won't do much at all.
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Well either I didn't know or forgotten that :rolleyes: ...the shots were taken about 11:30 but was worried about flare as the sun was not behind me (high in the sky) and I didn't have a lens hood.
 
odd jim said:
...and I take it you were adjusting it accordingly??

You'll see a big difference using a CPL shot for shot when correctly used.
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Well I was using a puddle of water for on\off, but the colours were slightly more saturated so it was doing something...but then it could be Asda scanning doing this. Anyway I took a 2nd camera with a wide angle lens and wait to see what that shows..well when I used the rest of the film up ;)
 
excalibur2 said:
Well I was using a puddle of water for on\off, but the colours were slightly more saturated so it was doing something...but then it could be Asda scanning doing this. Anyway I took a 2nd camera with a wide angle lens and wait to see what that shows..well when I used the rest of the film up ;)
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But if you adjust the polariser according to the puddle of water, you will likely need to adjust it again when you've repositioned the camera to your true subject. Polarisers aren't simply 'on' or 'off'. :thinking:
 
skysh4rk said:
But if you adjust the polariser according to the puddle of water, you will likely need to adjust it again when you've repositioned the camera to your true subject. Polarisers aren't simply 'on' or 'off'. :thinking:
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...as said I couldn't see max \ min effect through the viewfinder of the distant view of London, so used the puddle instead (for max \ min).....if it wasn't for the puddle I couldn't think of another way to see if the polariser was working as the blue sky didn't darken (well if it did I couldn't see the difference). The three different polarisers on three different lenses were the same.....it was a weak blue\cloudy sky day today maybe that's the reason.:(

Difficult to see any difference as the sun was lighting up different parts of the scene and unless the polariser made a big difference then it was lost in the scan. Also it looks like the 1st pic it's a bit OOF or maybe the Sun made polariser is crap....but still the test was about cutting through haze and scanning or quality of polariser shouldn't have made a major difference as either the polariser works or it doesn't.

with polariser


without polariser
 
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excalibur2 said:
...as said I couldn't see max \ min effect through the viewfinder of the distant view of London, so used the puddle instead (for max \ min).....if it wasn't for the puddle I couldn't think of another way to see if the polariser was working as the blue sky didn't darken (well if it did I couldn't see the difference). The three different polarisers on three different lenses were the same.....it was a weak blue\cloudy sky day today maybe that's the reason.:(
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Polarisers only filter out light reflected at certain angles. If I recall correctly, the maximum effect is achieved at 90 degrees relative to the light source (e.g., the sun). At other angles, the polariser will have less of an effect or possibly even none at all. Any effect will be visible in the viewfinder, however.

If the sky didn't darken through your viewfinder, then pointing the polariser at a puddle beforehand likely won't make any difference.
 
skysh4rk said:
Polarisers only filter out light reflected at certain angles. If I recall correctly, the maximum effect is achieved at 90 degrees relative to the light source (e.g., the sun). At other angles, the polariser will have less of an effect or possibly even none at all. Any effect will be visible in the viewfinder, however.

If the sky didn't darken through your viewfinder, then pointing the polariser at a puddle beforehand likely won't make any difference.
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Pointing the polariser at the puddle eliminated the reflection of the sky....h'mm must use it more for my shots of water weed.
 
excalibur2 said:
Pointing the polariser at the puddle eliminated the reflection of the sky....h'mm must use it more for my shots of water weed.
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Just to be clear, when I say pointing at the puddle won't make a difference, I only mean for then recomposing to shoot the sky, as the line of sight relative to the sun changes in those two examples.

If the polariser is working through the viewfinder with the puddle and that's what you're shooting, then happy days.
 
skysh4rk said:
Just to be clear, when I say pointing at the puddle won't make a difference, I only mean for then recomposing to shoot the sky, as the line of sight relative to the sun changes in those two examples.

If the polariser is working through the viewfinder with the puddle and that's what you're shooting, then happy days.
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Ah! maybe a rough rule is:- If you can't see a difference in the viewfinder then no point using a polariser h'mm although there is no guarantee what the eyes see, the film sees the same :(
 
Must be time for a double face palm...
:)
 
excalibur2 said:
Maybe I've proved a polariser is no good for the pollution in the air around London ;)
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I think you've proved it works on a puddle.
...and then you have to adjust the filter when you move the camera :)
 
Polarisers are also very good for cutting down the reflections in foliage and deepening the colour.
 
kendo1 said:
I think you've proved it works on a puddle.
...and then you have to adjust the filter when you move the camera :)
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Surely that's for AF lenses, there are a few manual film lenses where the front lens turns round when focusing but must most don't move..so once set it's like a linear polariser. Which reminds me that I have some Cokin sheet polarisers which would simplify the use but will probably reduce the sharpness of the lens.
 
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excalibur2 said:
Surely that's for AF lenses, there are a few manual film lenses where the front lens turns round when focusing but must most don't move..so once set it's like a linear polariser e.g. polariser sun glasses (is my thinking wrong?). Which reminds me that I have some Cokin sheet polarisers which would simplify the use but will probably reduce the sharpness of the lens.
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Circular polarisers normally consist of a linear polariser with a 1/4 wave plate on the back. They are mounted in
ring that can be turned to maximise or minimise their effect.
If you move the camera you have to move the filter.
 
kendo1 said:
Circular polarisers normally consist of a linear polariser with a 1/4 wave plate on the back. They are mounted in
ring that can be turned to maximise or minimise their effect.
If you move the camera you have to move the filter.
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Well I don't understand what you are saying...are you saying "if I set the polariser on the lens for the pond to remove reflection from the sky, then it won't work if I point the lens in another direction?"
But for the two shots...... I set the polariser for the puddle, then pointed the lens at London (which was a different direction) and took one shot but didn't remove the polariser but turned it 180 degrees so the polariser should have been off but the results were similar in cutting through the haze. I'll have to do a test away from London as it looks like it's too polluted.......h'mm no one has said "a polariser is useless cutting through pollution" anyone got proof either way?
 
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excalibur2 said:
...are you saying "if I set the polariser on the lens for the pond to remove reflection from the sky, then it won't work if I point the lens in another direction?"
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Yep!
 
kendo1 said:
Yep!
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Oh well, but I did try to see a difference looking at London before I used the puddle :( but my idea of a saucer of water placed in the direction you are pointing the lens should work :D
 
The angle is changing so you have to alter the filter.
Probably not a lot but it can make a difference. :)
 
There should normally be a mark/dot on the front ring polariser. Basically, regardless of which way you're pointing the lens, that dot should be pointed towards the sun (with it 90 degrees to the lens). Anything other than that and you will see little/no effect.

Also, if you use it on a wide angle lens you will probably get some random effects in the sky where the polarisation doesn't apply equally across the frame.
 
A polariser can make an awful lot of difference to a landscape image.

Haze is another thing altogether. A polariser will have difficulty cutting through haze. As someone says above haze is particles of crap suspended in the atmosphere.

An easy way of identify when your polariser will work most effectively is to look at your shadow. If you're pointing the camera at 90 degrees to your shadow it will be most effective; but even then atmospheric conditions will dictate how much it will work. A polariser just doesn't work with the sun behind you.

On dull days it will remove reflections from foliage etc. It will also remove reflections from wet rocks , etc, around streams and rivers.

Excellent piece of kit!
 
stevelmx5 said:
There should normally be a mark/dot on the front ring polariser. Basically, regardless of which way you're pointing the lens, that dot should be pointed towards the sun (with it 90 degrees to the lens). Anything other than that and you will see little/no effect.

Also, if you use it on a wide angle lens you will probably get some random effects in the sky where the polarisation doesn't apply equally across the frame.
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That's interesting only the Hoya has this white stripe.
 
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