Portrait or Neutral picture control?

L

Lou Nardi

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Edit My Images
Yes
I will be photographing both indoor & outside portraits this weekend. So still unsure which one will I shot using portrait or neutral picture control for this shots? Thank you for your advice.
 
I use faithful on my Canon all the time. That said I shoot raw so it don't really matter as you can choose after the fact.

Gaz
 
cargo said:
I use faithful on my Canon all the time. That said I shoot raw so it don't really matter as you can choose after the fact.

Gaz
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Me too
Neutral because it'll give an accurate histogram.
Raw because I like the headroom

But that depends on the work, if I was shooting large volume jpeg, I might try a custom preset for each of the different locations.

There's no 'right answer' it'll depend on circumstances and personal preference.
 
Phil V said:
Me too
Neutral because it'll give an accurate histogram.
Raw because I like the headroom

But that depends on the work, if I was shooting large volume jpeg, I might try a custom preset for each of the different locations.

There's no 'right answer' it'll depend on circumstances and personal preference.
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I didn't think any were a truly accurate histogram as they're taken from the jpeg not the RAW?
 
snerkler said:
I didn't think any were a truly accurate histogram as they're taken from the jpeg not the RAW?
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Yes but if you use 'neutral' it's taken from a jpeg that's not had a great deal of processing. Some of the picture styles do more processing and that's why we're told it's not 'accurate'
 
Phil V said:
Yes but if you use 'neutral' it's taken from a jpeg that's not had a great deal of processing. Some of the picture styles do more processing and that's why we're told it's not 'accurate'
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Why does Neutral give a more accurate histogram? I would've thought Faithful, or even Standard, would provide more accuracy, as their levels are less tweaked.
 
Nifkin said:
Why does Neutral give a more accurate histogram? I would've thought Faithful, or even Standard, would provide more accuracy, as their levels are less tweaked.
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I believe (can't be bothered to check) I use faithful, but this discussion really is picking round the edges of my response to the OP.

I mentioned the histogram as a 'bonus' amongst some sound advice and an answer to his question (which had nothing to do with histograms) :tumbleweed:
 
Phil V said:
I believe (can't be bothered to check) I use faithful, but this discussion really is picking round the edges of my response to the OP.

I mentioned the histogram as a 'bonus' amongst some sound advice and an answer to his question (which had nothing to do with histograms) :tumbleweed:
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OK Phil, didn't mean to offend. I simply picked up on one of the pieces of your sound advice because I was interested to understand why Neutral (which you say you use in your first two posts) gives a more natural histogram: if the OP is shooting in Raw, where Picture Styles aren't critical to the picture data, then their effect on the histogram may well be relevant to the OP's ability to review what's been shot. If the OP is shooting in Jpeg, then Picture Styles are indeed a matter of personal preference when it comes to the finished image. However the OP hasn't said what format they shoot in, as yet...
 
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Nifkin said:
OK Phil, didn't mean to offend. I simply picked up on one of the pieces of your sound advice because I was interested to understand why Neutral (which you say you use in your first two posts) gives a more natural histogram: if the OP is shooting in Raw, where Picture Styles aren't critical to the picture data, then their effect on the histogram may well be relevant to the OP's ability to review what's been shot. If the OP is shooting in Jpeg, then Picture Styles are indeed a matter of personal preference when it comes to the finished image. However the OP hasn't said what format they shoot in, as yet...
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I picked up on neutral from the OP :)
 
Ah ok.... Still would be interesting to know which picture style provides the most accurate HG [emoji3]... You did suggest neutral would over others, just wondering if there was a reason for that...
 
The Canon Picture Styles adjust Sharpness, Contrast, Saturation, Color (colour;)) Tone. Just by moving some similar settings in an image editor you can see how it affects the Histogram. The Histogram in the cameras is a representation of the Picture Style applied to the RAW file. In theory the Histogram could be more accurate if various settings aren't boosted or cut away from Neutral / Faithful. I used to use the Neutral Picture Control for that reason. Nikon have put a Flat Picture Control on my new camera so I'm now using that. It has been OK so far.

To the OP, if I were shooting in Jpeg only, I would use the Portrait Picture Style if I were doing portraits, and Landscape for landscapes etc. They have in theory been optimised for those subjects, and may need less, if any if you are lucky, post processing after the fact. And they can all be adjusted to taste to get closer to what you want straight out of camera if you find you are always doing the same edit when post processing, more or less saturation for example. Do it in camera.
 
Nifkin said:
Ah ok.... Still would be interesting to know which picture style provides the most accurate HG [emoji3]... You did suggest neutral would over others, just wondering if there was a reason for that...
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If you want a completely neutral histogram, create a completely flat custom picture style.

Though, if I'm honest, for the amount that the histogram is 'inaccurate' for normal shooting it really is a bit pointless. A mix of blinkies, histogram and knowing how to interpret the 2 creates as accurate a picture of what's being captured as I require.

Concentrating on the histogram is a bit like constantly tuning your light meter instead of putting the effort into pointing your camera at something interesting.
 
Phil V said:
If you want a completely neutral histogram, create a completely flat custom picture style.

Though, if I'm honest, for the amount that the histogram is 'inaccurate' for normal shooting it really is a bit pointless. A mix of blinkies, histogram and knowing how to interpret the 2 creates as accurate a picture of what's being captured as I require.

Concentrating on the histogram is a bit like constantly tuning your light meter instead of putting the effort into pointing your camera at something interesting.
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I agree: a histogram is one of many reference tools that can be used. But seeing that the picture styles (the subject of the OP) affect its output, was interested to hear your views on how to get the most balanced result from it. Wasn't suggesting relying on it exclusively [emoji106]
 
Nifkin said:
I agree: a histogram is one of many reference tools that can be used. But seeing that the picture styles (the subject of the OP) affect its output, was interested to hear your views on how to get the most balanced result from it. Wasn't suggesting relying on it exclusively [emoji106]
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Well the 'best' way is to create a custom style, but the OP was more concerned with the look of the image than an accurate histogram for assessing raw output.

If he's planning on using JPEGS sooc it's the opposite of what he wants.
 
redhed17 said:
The Canon Picture Styles adjust Sharpness, Contrast, Saturation, Color (colour;)) Tone. Just by moving some similar settings in an image editor you can see how it affects the Histogram. The Histogram in the cameras is a representation of the Picture Style applied to the RAW file. In theory the Histogram could be more accurate if various settings aren't boosted or cut away from Neutral / Faithful. I used to use the Neutral Picture Control for that reason. Nikon have put a Flat Picture Control on my new camera so I'm now using that. It has been OK so far.

To the OP, if I were shooting in Jpeg only, I would use the Portrait Picture Style if I were doing portraits, and Landscape for landscapes etc. They have in theory been optimised for those subjects, and may need less, if any if you are lucky, post processing after the fact. And they can all be adjusted to taste to get closer to what you want straight out of camera if you find you are always doing the same edit when post processing, more or less saturation for example. Do it in camera.
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I'm sure you meant jpeg not RAW ;)
 
Phil V said:
Well the 'best' way is to create a custom style, but the OP was more concerned with the look of the image than an accurate histogram for assessing raw output.

If he's planning on using JPEGS sooc it's the opposite of what he wants.
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The OP didn't say whether he was shooting in Jpeg or RAW: he may well have been asking so that he could better assess the RAW output. The point is that if you're shooting in Jpeg the chosen Picture Style has an affect on the finished image, if you're shooting in RAW the same function can be optimised to produce a more accurate histogram. Either way it can be of use.

Anyway, for a balanced histogram I would have thought Faithful is where it's at: all the parameters in that setting are set to '0', whereas Neutral has been tweaked ever so slightly. But I'm fully prepared to be corrected: that's why I asked the question :)
 
Nifkin said:
The OP didn't say whether he was shooting in Jpeg or RAW: he may well have been asking so that he could better assess the RAW output. The point is that if you're shooting in Jpeg the chosen Picture Style has an affect on the finished image, if you're shooting in RAW the same function can be optimised to produce a more accurate histogram. Either way it can be of use.

Anyway, for a balanced histogram I would have thought Faithful is where it's at: all the parameters in that setting are set to '0', whereas Neutral has been tweaked ever so slightly. But I'm fully prepared to be corrected: that's why I asked the question :)
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Oddly, it's what I told you I used (post 7), but you preferred to bicker about a throwaway comment I'd made instead.
 
Phil V said:
Oddly, it's what I told you I used (post 7), but you preferred to bicker about a throwaway comment I'd made instead.
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Phil, with due respect I don't appreciate being accused of 'bickering' when I'm simply trying to learn from you (and I hoped the OP will as well). In post 7 you said you used Faithful, but didn't say why, but in post 3 you said:
Phil V said:
Neutral because it'll give an accurate histogram.
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At this stage none of us knew whether the OP was shooting in RAW or Jpeg, so if he's shooting in the latter your comment isn't relevant to the way the final image is processed. You then continue to talk about the reason for shooting in Neutral for histogram purposes in post 5: this is precisely why I asked why you thought Neutral gave a more accurate histogram than Faithful... I thought you may be able to enlighten us :)

You also went on to say
Phil V said:
If you want a completely neutral histogram, create a completely flat custom picture style.
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I get that, bit isn't Faithful completely flat anyway? Or am I misunderstanding something about the way histograms work? I am here to learn stuff after all! Also
Phil V said:
Concentrating on the histogram is a bit like constantly tuning your light meter instead of putting the effort into pointing your camera at something interesting.
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Nobody was suggesting concentrating on the histogram exclusively. My question was really quite simple.

Anyway, I think redhed17 has answered the OP's original query most articulately ;)
 
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Phil V said:
Oddly, it's what I told you I used (post 7), but you preferred to bicker about a throwaway comment I'd made instead.
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And to cap it all, the OP cannot shoot in faithful as the Nikon D810 doesn't have a faithful mode ;) So your original response was spot on :)
 
redhed17 said:
No, I should have said RAW data rather than Raw file, but the Histogram in camera is measuring the Jpeg tones after the Picture Style/Control and White Balance has been applied to the RAW data. :)
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Yes, but it's still showing the embedded jpeg into the RAW file, it won't be exactly the RAW histogram you see when opened in RAW software, therefore if you've applied a picture style, active d-lighting, or any of these other things that affect jpegs only you can get quite a surprise when you open the RAW file in LR, PS etc etc (but I'm sure you know that and we're basically saying the same thing ;))
 
snerkler said:
Yes, but it's still showing the embedded jpeg into the RAW file, it won't be exactly the RAW histogram you see when opened in RAW software, therefore if you've applied a picture style, active d-lighting, or any of these other things that affect jpegs only you can get quite a surprise when you open the RAW file in LR, PS etc etc (but I'm sure you know that and we're basically saying the same thing ;))
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Yep, same thing pretty much. ;) As far as I know no camera shows the RAW data in the Histogram, it is always a representation with all the in camera settings applied.
 
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