Powerful Walkie-Talkie recommendations?

Garry Edwards

Garry Edwards

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Garry Edwards
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Here's the situation...
We have a small hill farm in North Yorkshire, mobile phone coverage is virtually zero.
In case of emergency, each vehicle (quad and a couple of tractors) carries red smoke flares and GPS for map co-ordinates, but a fairly minor accident a couple of weeks ago demonstrates that we each need to carry a small but powerful walkie-talkie, which must be rechargeable.
I slipped on concrete steps (my fault for wearing wellies that are excellent in mud but hopeless on hard surfaces) and couldn't move for a long time, and got very wet and pretty cold in the process, because nobody knew about it and my chances of being found were so low that I had to ignore my broken ribs and get on with it:)

Distance needed is 600 yards in any weather conditions, battery life will need to cover a full working day, which is often about 14 hours in the summer, we only need 4 handsets, speech quality and cost is not important, so any recommendations will be appreciated
 
"Licence Free" PMR is limited to 0.5W in the UK so all legal handsets will have much the same range. I'd buy a couple of "cheap & cheerful" units from Amazon & see if they have the range you want in your location, you can then send them back if pants :)

A licence for the more powerful (5W) business PMRs is £75 and fairly easy to get but the units will cost a fair bit more.
 
Thanks for the info so far.

I didn't know about the licensing aspect, and although I no doubt could get a licence I think that this would be overkill for us - I have since spoken to my youngest son, who works on a very large farm where everyone has a handset and every tractor etc has a much bigger version built in too, that particular farm spreads for several miles and they talk to each other on specific channels related to the type of job they're doing, they have a channel that allows private conversation with the boss and also have a red button for emergency use that transmits location coordinates, plus the identity of the worker, plus voice, to all channels - sounds to me a bit like a marine system. This was once used by a stockman who had been very severely injured by a bull, he was too badly hurt to speak but someone turned up very quickly on a tractor and got the bull away. But, we just need a simple system for a much smaller setup.

Logic (and my knowledge of flash lighting) tells me that performance will vary depending on design efficiency, after all some (say) 200 Ws flash heads produce twice the power of others, so there may well be an advantage in avoiding the cheap units, also we need units that won't mind getting wet and the rough knocks of farm work. Our max distance is just 6-700 yards from the yard, and as there is always someone in the yard there doesn't seem to be any need for the just under 1 mile of total distance, although presumably any set that claims to operate at about 8km should be fine at less than 2km - unless of course, you know better:)
 
This is the sort we use for work, not sure about the claimed 8Km line of site, but I know they'll work "under all circumstances" ( woodland small hills and valleys etc) for a mile.
Water resistant at least, yes I've dropped them in a puddle, on to hard concrete, and they've bounced and still worked.

https://www.onedirect.co.uk/motorola/motorola-xt420-with-charger

And it seems they are Licence free
https://www.radiotrader.co.uk/news/facts-about-licence-free-radios.htm

Disadvantages of licence-free radios
  • Lower power, so their range is shorter (approximately 3km maximum)
  • Their popularity means the channels can often be congested
  • Not suitable for emergency use as channel usage is on a first-come-first served basis
  • If users are too far apart they may suffer interference from other two-way radios within range
 
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I worked for a company that made PMR radios ( we supplied the units for London's Burning) , the 0.5 watt units only have decent range in line of sight & good weather
 
Is there a good broadband service? Could be worth investigating pico mobile cells that could cover the entire area without needing special equipment.

If you could get good WiFi coverage everywhere there’s always the WiFi calling option too.
 
Cobra said:
This is the sort we use for work, not sure about the claimed 8Km line of site, but I know they'll work "under all circumstances" ( woodland small hills and valleys etc) for a mile.
Water resistant at least, yes I've dropped them in a puddle, on to hard concrete, and they've bounced and still worked.

https://www.onedirect.co.uk/motorola/motorola-xt420-with-charger

And it seems they are Licence free
https://www.radiotrader.co.uk/news/facts-about-licence-free-radios.htm

Disadvantages of licence-free radios
  • Lower power, so their range is shorter (approximately 3km maximum)
  • Their popularity means the channels can often be congested
  • Not suitable for emergency use as channel usage is on a first-come-first served basis
  • If users are too far apart they may suffer interference from other two-way radios within range
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Thanks for that, sounds promising.
mrgubby said:
I worked for a company that made PMR radios ( we supplied the units for London's Burning) , the 0.5 watt units only have decent range in line of sight & good weather
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Well, it's a hill farm, so often no line of sight, and we get "special" North Yorkshire weather there - but hopefully technology has improved since the "London's Burning" days, which must be about 25 years ago.
srichards said:
Is there a good broadband service? Could be worth investigating pico mobile cells that could cover the entire area without needing special equipment.

If you could get good WiFi coverage everywhere there’s always the WiFi calling option too.
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Unfortunately Broadband there is terrible, sometimes it takes 20 minutes to load the average webpage - miles from the nearest hub
 
Garry Edwards said:
Thanks for that, sounds promising.
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If you are in no particular rush, I'll get the exact model number, of the ones we use, but that won't be until Thurs this week though.
 
Cobra said:
If you are in no particular rush, I'll get the exact model number, of the ones we use, but that won't be until Thurs this week though.
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Thanks, there's no panic, it's going to be a couple of weeks before I can get down there again anyway.
 
Garry Edwards said:
Well, it's a hill farm, so often no line of sight, and we get "special" North Yorkshire weather there - but hopefully technology has improved since the "London's Burning" days, which must be about 25 years ago.
Click to expand...

PMR446 hasn't changed, it's an analogue system operating at 446MHz with a max power of 0.5W.

From what I remember some of our Radios were badged as Cobra in the USA :D
 
Years ago, when I flew hang and paragliders on a regular basis we found the biggest difference to performance came from swapping the aerial & a cheap .5 w radio could transmit 10-15 miles on the ground with that relatively inexpensive change
 
Garry Edwards said:
Logic (and my knowledge of flash lighting) tells me that performance will vary depending on design efficiency, after all some (say) 200 Ws flash heads produce twice the power of others,
Click to expand...

Whilst I'm sure that is true for some cheap radios, frequency is probably the biggest factor affecting radio propagation. Higher frequencies are attenuated more and most VHF is pretty much line-of-sight whatever the power (shining a brighter torch at a hillside does not allow it to be seen on the other side). Due to reflection off the ionosphere lower shortwave frequencies (including CB at 27MHz) can travel over obstacles and even the curvature of the earth. Professional VHF set-ups such as emergency services and shipping use repeaters at high points to relay the signal.

Without a license you have quite limited options but if you want non-line-of-sight comms, say from valley to valley CB would seem to be a better option.
 
sirch said:
Whilst I'm sure that is true for some cheap radios, frequency is probably the biggest factor affecting radio propagation. Higher frequencies are attenuated more and most VHF is pretty much line-of-sight whatever the power (shining a brighter torch at a hillside does not allow it to be seen on the other side). Due to reflection off the ionosphere lower shortwave frequencies (including CB at 27MHz) can travel over obstacles and even the curvature of the earth. Professional VHF set-ups such as emergency services and shipping use repeaters at high points to relay the signal.

Without a license you have quite limited options but if you want non-line-of-sight comms, say from valley to valley CB would seem to be a better option.
Click to expand...
Thanks, that's helpful info.
 
some cheap hand held cb radios would do the trick
 
We have been using several (5 or 6 at a time) PMR 446 Cobra brand radios in North Yourkshire countryside in all weather conditions for years. They’ll go all day on standby/occasional use with good AAA rechargeables. Usually over much more than your 800 yards.
I’m not sure they fit your emargency use case but they are cheap enough that you could get a pair to try out. Being relatively cheap you could possibly carry two, one as backup, all set to the same frequency.
 
It seems to me that for emergency use where someone may be injured and not able to use a phone or radio one needs an outdoor version of those alarms that people wear if they are disabled/elderly. Don’t sailors and climbers have some sort of directional beacon?
 
sphexx said:
It seems to me that for emergency use where someone may be injured and not able to use a phone or radio one needs an outdoor version of those alarms that people wear if they are disabled/elderly. Don’t sailors and climbers have some sort of directional beacon?
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Yes, these things will be available, but I very much doubt whether they would be affordable.
A complete answer would probably be to have a licenced radio system, with an emergency channel, and for no person ever to work alone - but again definately not affordable. All that I'm trying to do here is to introduce something, because right now we have nothing:)P

Incidentally, my late mother had an emergency pendant. She hated to be a nuisance to anyone and I was worried that if she ever needed to use it she wouldn't, so I repeatedly told her that the control centre would have some poor guy there who had absolutely nothing to do and who was bored out of his mind, hoping that someone would push the button and relieve his boredom, so she mustn't hesitate to push the red button if she needed help, but it did no good. She fell one night, didn't push the button, was found the following day and died a few days later - no system, however good, is infallible.
 
Garry Edwards said:
but it did no good. She fell one night, didn't push the button, was found the following day and died a few days later -
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Sorry to hear that Garry, my mum is also in a similar situation with the push button, like you, we ( my brother and I) I think, have drummed it into her..
but as you said .. no system, however good, is infallible.


Garry Edwards said:
Thanks, there's no panic, it's going to be a couple of weeks before I can get down there again anyway.
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Bloody typical, all the Motorola ones were "out" today,
But we also use these and to my mind, there is nothing to choose between them.
In this instance, I tested it out, the Weighbridge to yard is just under a mile and surrounded by metal clad buildings ( typical industrial type estate with retail / trade warehouses etc ) the
signal comes through loud and clear.
HTH
https://www.apexradio.co.uk/product...MI0erM7evH1gIVzL3tCh2xmQGdEAQYASABEgKHnvD_BwE
 
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Cobra said:
Sorry to hear that Garry, my mum is also in a similar situation with the push button, like you, we ( my brother and I) I think, have drummed it into her..
but as you said .. no system, however good, is infallible.



Bloody typical, all the Motorola ones were "out" today,
But we also use these and to my mind, there is nothing to choose between them.
In this instance, I tested it out, the Weighbridge to yard is just under a mile and surrounded by metal clad buildings ( typical industrial type estate with retail / trade warehouses etc ) the
signal comes through loud and clear.
HTH
https://www.apexradio.co.uk/product...MI0erM7evH1gIVzL3tCh2xmQGdEAQYASABEgKHnvD_BwE
Click to expand...
Many thanks for that. One of the forum members has very kindly offered to lend me a pair of his, to try out on site, and I'll be doing that as soon as I'm fit enough to go to the farm again. At least, once that's done, I'll know whether this system does the job.
Right now, with broken ribs and dosed with painkillers, I can't even drive, let alone get to the farm. I'm not a sitting-around-doing-nothing-person:)
 
sphexx said:
Don’t sailors and climbers have some sort of directional beacon?
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Personal Locator Beacons are licence free, and some have 5-10 year battery life. Price ranges from £150-£400 per unit.
You have to register them with the coast guard, naming the user and providing a contact phone number (farms land line in your case).
If a unit's triggered, you should get a phone call within four minutes telling you {name}'s PLB has been activated, and you can decide how to handle it.
 
I used to use Motorola PMR446, which have been referenced earlier, and found that the channels could be changed with a largish knob at the top and that got moved in peoples pockets etc, cue much useless shouting into the radio :~( . The Cobra can be locked except for the volume (which can also be a similar problem). So I think it would be good to check that these newer radios can have their settings locked*

* I wish camera manufacturers would do this too! You can lock the 4-way thing on Fujis, maybe others?
 
sphexx said:
The Cobra can be locked except for the volume
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What are you trying to say here? :p

sphexx said:
a largish knob at the top and that got moved
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Actually a couple of people solved that problem by pulling the knob off, just leaving the metal stub ... Norty ..
and when questioned of course they "had no idea" what happened to it ;)
 
Cobra said:
What are you trying to say here? :p


Actually a couple of people solved that problem by pulling the knob off, just leaving the metal stub ... Norty ..
and when questioned of course they "had no idea" what happened to it ;)
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I think you must work with some of the people I socialise with ;)
 
Tori_T said:
Personal Locator Beacons are licence free, and some have 5-10 year battery life. Price ranges from £150-£400 per unit.
You have to register them with the coast guard, naming the user and providing a contact phone number (farms land line in your case).
If a unit's triggered, you should get a phone call within four minutes telling you {name}'s PLB has been activated, and you can decide how to handle it.
Click to expand...
A very good idea, but unfortunately wouldn't work for us, as there would be a very high probability that nobody would be around to hear the landline - and because of the mobile reception problems, couldn't use a mobile either
 
In that event, they'd assume it was a genuine alert, and pass the GPS coordinates the PLB squawked along with it's ID to the emergency services.
At the very least, you'd have the cops homing in on the location to assess the situation.
 
Tori_T said:
In that event, they'd assume it was a genuine alert, and pass the GPS coordinates the PLB squawked along with it's ID to the emergency services.
At the very least, you'd have the cops homing in on the location to assess the situation.
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Sounds good, thanks. I'll look into that, it would be a very good backup system if the radio didn't work when needed. Of course, it would rely on the police actually being able to find the farm, which in the past they've failed to do. The one time that we had to phone an ambulance they couldn't find it either:( The only real chance of getting a quick response is from air ambulance, because they work on map coordinates. The North Yorkshire Police don't even have a helicopter, they have to "borrow" one from Cleveland when necessary.
I once led a police car for nearly 4 miles, they were trying to find a farm but had gone to the postcode, 4 miles from the actual address.
Remote rural locations are lovely (in the summer) but do have their drawbacks.
 
Postcodes are fairly useless in rural areas, why can’t they all use OS grids refs or , even better, what3words.com?
 
If the air ambulance is the only option that works on map coordinates, then that's likely who'll be sent. PLBs are generally carried by folks going off the beaten track, so they'll be heading for the transmitters lat/long location, not it's registered address/post code.
 
the PMR 446 radios, Cobras at least, have a “call” button that can be set to ring on all the other phones which could be useful for someone who couldn’t speak.
 
sphexx said:
Cobras at least, have a “call” button that can be set to ring on all the other phones which could be useful for someone who couldn’t speak.
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So everyone then checks in to say they're okay, and you head for the last known location of the person who didn't?
That could work.
 
Garry Edwards said:
Distance needed is 600 yards in any weather conditions, battery life will need to cover a full working day, which is often about 14 hours in the summer, we only need 4 handsets, speech quality and cost is not important, so any recommendations will be appreciated
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Have quite a bit of experience with hand-held unlicensed "walkie-talkie" radios which we use for smaller motorsport events. Whatever the manufacturers may claim, your distance requirement will potentially be a problem without line of sight. We give people spare batteries when we hand out the radios at the start of the day as some will always run out.

We also use licensed radios with a base station and radio controller on a different (FM) frequency allocated to motorsport use for bigger events. These are altogether more robust and have better range, but if not going through the base station, half a mile without line of sight can be a problem - we instruct people to relay all calls through the controller at the base station as a consequence.

TBH you may be better with CB radios - no personal experience of these but they do seem to have good range and not require line of sight.
 
Many thanks to everyone for your help.
CB radios do seem to offer advantages, and I've now bought a pair, which should have more than enough range.
My concerns are build quality and battery life, but I'll try them out once they arrive and once I can get back to the farm, and go from there.
 
Tori_T said:
Don't forget that you'll all need to learn the 10 codes, CB slang, and talk to each other in bad American accents. :p
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I've learned 4 languages, a bit late in life now to learn a 5th:)
 
Update.
I bought 2 of these, and this week I've been able to get down to the farm and try them out for the first time. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/UK-BaoFen...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

They must be the cheapest available, thought I'd try out cheapies to see how well the idea worked, on the basis that I can get better, waterproof or at least water resistant ones later if needed.
Anyway, they do the job very well. Only silly problem I've found is that when the call button is pressed very briefly (it needs a long press) the radio changes to FM mode, which is a bit silly...
We've had all sorts of weather this week, from torrential rain to bright sunshine to heavy mist/fog and in all conditions we always got very good quality speech from one end of the farm to the other. Today, I tried further afield and the reception was still adequate 3 miles from the farm by road (probably a lot less as the crow flies) so I'm happy.

Many thanks for all the advice on this.
 
They are good radios and battery life surprisingly long. Very keenly priced too.

However the frequency range and power output of these requires a licence to use them; Amateur Radio (certain frequency ranges only) or other.

Even in the 446Mhz PMR band, their power output is greater than the threshold to be licence-free.

Just sayin'
 
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