Pre-Wedding Shoot

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Hey folks. Haven't posted anything for a while so thought I would share these. I actually shot the wedding on Saturday just gone.

I tried different things with the posing and working with the couple. The gentleman wasn't the most comfortable in having his photo taken but I think I got there in the end. Feel free to let me know your thoughts and I will of course be responsive to them. I realise i perhaps got a little defensive in the last thread, but I have had a bit of a revelation today about where I want to go with this. :)

The full set from the evening..... CLICKY


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Danny+%26+Katie-11.jpg


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Danny+%26+Katie-25.jpg

:)
 
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They're absolutely charming & have a distinctive atmosphere. Some of that distinctiveness comes from the framing - I'd have framed them differently but that doesn't mean you have to.
  1. If you'd stepped to the left they'd have been framed by the natural arch in the branches - I don't think it would have looked too staged
  2. They're quite low in the frame and the trees are a bit close to the heads
  3. I'd have been on my belly to shoot this one, might even have had some OOF grass waving about in the foreground.
 
With reference to the blog post, very nice 'feel' to the photos, just wish there was more variety in expressions and connection between the couple - they are all quite sombre, looking at the ground a lot. Whether that's an accurate reflection of the couple I don't know!

Also the black and white shots are flipped compared to the colour - ring/watch are on opposite hands - is that deliberate?
 
juggler said:
They're absolutely charming & have a distinctive atmosphere. Some of that distinctiveness comes from the framing - I'd have framed them differently but that doesn't mean you have to.
  1. If you'd stepped to the left they'd have been framed by the natural arch in the branches - I don't think it would have looked too staged
  2. They're quite low in the frame and the trees are a bit close to the heads
  3. I'd have been on my belly to shoot this one, might even have had some OOF grass waving about in the foreground.
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Thank you Simon. The first line of your comment for me is the most important one and I appreciate that.

Also, I wish I had gotten more variety in the poses this time. I was concentrating on going for a more sombre atmosphere and neglected some of my usual stuff for it I think. Next time will try and do both.

jpw said:
With reference to the blog post, very nice 'feel' to the photos, just wish there was more variety in expressions and connection between the couple - they are all quite sombre, looking at the ground a lot. Whether that's an accurate reflection of the couple I don't know!

Also the black and white shots are flipped compared to the colour - ring/watch are on opposite hands - is that deliberate?
Click to expand...

Thank you John. As I said to Simon above, I too wish there was more variety and I knew that after the shoot. I think some of these have the feel I was after which is good but yes, next time I will definitely try a little more variety.

Damn! They ARE flipped and I hadn't noticed until you said it. They have now been amended. It wasn't deliberate and must have been done at the scanning stage by the lab. :)
 
juggler said:
They're absolutely charming & have a distinctive atmosphere. Some of that distinctiveness comes from the framing - I'd have framed them differently but that doesn't mean you have to.
  1. If you'd stepped to the left they'd have been framed by the natural arch in the branches - I don't think it would have looked too staged
  2. They're quite low in the frame and the trees are a bit close to the heads
  3. I'd have been on my belly to shoot this one, might even have had some OOF grass waving about in the foreground.
Click to expand...

:agree:

Though I'd just add that (in 1) male noses in front of female faces rarely work as well as vice versa :)

Dave
 
What Simon and Dave said, but for me the feel of the pictures is at odds with the couple and in particular with that pink knitted top.
 
DG Phototraining said:
:agree:

Though I'd just add that (in 1) male noses in front of female faces rarely work as well as vice versa :)

Dave
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Serendipitous Sid said:
What Simon and Dave said, but for me the feel of the pictures is at odds with the couple and in particular with that pink knitted top.
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Interesting that everyone agrees with the "i'd shoot them like this" comment. If we all did that, surely they would all be the same compositions?! Not trying to be argumentative there, genuinely curious.

And with regards to, "the feel of the pictures is at odds with the couple" etc, what would you do in that situation if you were trying to shoot in this style, or they had chosen you for this style of photo? Shoot definitely because it doesn't suit them or their clothes? Again, I don't mean that to come across as argumentative or me being defensive, it's a genuine question.
 
gazmorton2000 said:
Interesting that everyone agrees with the "i'd shoot them like this" comment. If we all did that, surely they would all be the same compositions?! Not trying to be argumentative there, genuinely curious.
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I guess it's the 'keep heads in clear space' thing which is ingrained in lots of portrait photographers. In practice none of us would have the same compositions 'cos we're unlikely to have picked exactly the same locations.
 
gazmorton2000 said:
If we all did that, surely they would all be the same compositions?! Not trying to be argumentative there, genuinely curious.
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To an extent yes they would be similar, but similar in that they would be the accepted best way of doing it

Its a bit like that 'breaking the rules' point people like to talk about, by all means break them but not by a small margin - smash them :D

An example of what I mean, I have loads of Rules of Nearly - i.e. if there's water in the scene then it should normally be perfectly horizontal as that's what water does. If the sea horizon is less than 3 degrees off level it looks like a mistake to me, if its over over 3 degrees then I can accept its intentionally skew and that's then fine too

Portraits 'near' to the standard perception of how its done are then 'wrong' as they don't fit with that perception, make them break those perceptions and its fine :) Well if it works it is lol

My 2p rolls swiftly on :D

Dave
 
gazmorton2000 said:
What would you do in that situation if you were trying to shoot in this style, or they had chosen you for this style of photo? Shoot definitely because it doesn't suit them or their clothes?
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I only know two ways to approach this kind of shoot. Either you tailor the subjects' appearance to the style of picture you're aiming for, or they turn up wearing what they do and you wing it. In the first case, that involves talking through all aspects of the look you're after, ensuring that what they're going to be wearing will work, and stressing the need for both of them to have a couple of alternative tops with them just in case.

I would simply have said "Sorry girl, that top isn't going to work for the style of picture you want". If she still wanted to wear it, I'd have shot them differently

NB The above not intended as a critique - just the answer to a direct question.
 
juggler said:
I guess it's the 'keep heads in clear space' thing which is ingrained in lots of portrait photographers. In practice none of us would have the same compositions 'cos we're unlikely to have picked exactly the same locations.
Click to expand...

DG Phototraining said:
To an extent yes they would be similar, but similar in that they would be the accepted best way of doing it

Its a bit like that 'breaking the rules' point people like to talk about, by all means break them but not by a small margin - smash them :D

An example of what I mean, I have loads of Rules of Nearly - i.e. if there's water in the scene then it should normally be perfectly horizontal as that's what water does. If the sea horizon is less than 3 degrees off level it looks like a mistake to me, if its over over 3 degrees then I can accept its intentionally skew and that's then fine too

Portraits 'near' to the standard perception of how its done are then 'wrong' as they don't fit with that perception, make them break those perceptions and its fine :) Well if it works it is lol

My 2p rolls swiftly on :D

Dave
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Thanks both. In fact, Simon actually said that they had a distinctive look that comes from the framing, so in actually viewing that as a success. In fact now, as I flick through the book by Jose Villa, the cover image has his nose over her face and their heads backed by a load of trees.

Hell, some of these are OOF!

Serendipitous Sid said:
I only know two ways to approach this kind of shoot. Either you tailor the subjects' appearance to the style of picture you're aiming for, or they turn up wearing what they do and you wing it. In the first case, that involves talking through all aspects of the look you're after, ensuring that what they're going to be wearing will work, and stressing the need for both of them to have a couple of alternative tops with them just in case.

I would simply have said "Sorry girl, that top isn't going to work for the style of picture you want". If she still wanted to wear it, I'd have shot them differently

NB The above not intended as a critique - just the answer to a direct question.
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Interesting, Dan. Thank you. To be fair, she didn't ask for the style of photo, that's all down to me.
 
gazmorton2000 said:
Interesting, Dan. Thank you. To be fair, she didn't ask for the style of photo, that's all down to me.
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Ah. In that case, to my way of thinking it's a simple case of you imposing your preconceived idea on the subjects without taking into account how one of them was dressed and whether or not that was right for the feel you seem to have been aiming for.

What would you say would be the difference in the feel of the pictures if she was wearing a plain-coloured tee shirt?

Or would there not be any?
 
Serendipitous Sid said:
Ah. In that case, to my way of thinking it's a simple case of you imposing your preconceived idea on the subjects without taking into account how one of them was dressed and whether or not that was right for the feel you seem to have been aiming for.

What would you say would be the difference in the feel of the pictures if she was wearing a plain-coloured tee shirt?

Or would there not be any?
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I'm confused, it's a pre-wedding shoot not a styled shoot...
 
ajax_andy said:
I'm confused, it's a pre-wedding shoot not a styled shoot...
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Does every shoot have to fit neatly into a specific category?

There are two ways of looking at Gareth's snaps. One is to view them as the work of a very competent amateur photographer, in which case my point is irrelevant. But I understood Gareth to be striving towards earning his living with his camera, in which case it is surely valid to look at them from a professional POV, My point about the pink top derives from doing just that, simply because I can see it grating with some of what I imagine to be Gareth's target market. Not grating enough in itself to lose him a booking, but I've always found that it pays to offer punters as little opportunity as possible to find little niggles in portfolio pictures which, taken together, might just do so.

If you're looking at these from a professional POV too and you either don't see what I'm getting at or you simply disagree, I'm obviously fine with that. :)
 
Serendipitous Sid said:
Does every shoot have to fit neatly into a specific category?

There are two ways of looking at Gareth's snaps. One is to view them as the work of a very competent amateur photographer, in which case my point is irrelevant. But I understood Gareth to be striving towards earning his living with his camera, in which case it is surely valid to look at them from a professional POV, My point about the pink top derives from doing just that, simply because I can see it grating with some of what I imagine to be Gareth's target market. Not grating enough in itself to lose him a booking, but I've always found that it pays to offer punters as little opportunity as possible to find little niggles in portfolio pictures which, taken together, might just do so.

If you're looking at these from a professional POV too and you either don't see what I'm getting at or you simply disagree, I'm obviously fine with that. :)
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A pre-wedding / engagement shoot isn't a styled shoot so yes they fit in to different categories. You want couples to feel comfortable and so dictating what they can wear is a no go imo... plus it's not like she's wearing a slogan hoodie or what ever, it's a relatively nice jumper.
 
ajax_andy said:
It's the same thing just worded differently
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It apparently is to you, Andy.

OK ... my last word on this. For any paid portrait shoots I ever did, the clients got from me a PDF containing, among other things, helpful suggestions about what clothing usually works well and what doesn't, together with the recommendation that they consider having with them a few items of clothing with which to vary their look. That is standard practice for many pro portrait photographers and has been for years.

And to head off your next question, subjects changing their clothing in outdoor/public locations was never anything even resembling a problem.
 
Serendipitous Sid said:
It apparently is to you, Andy.

OK ... my last word on this. For any paid portrait shoots I ever did, the clients got from me a PDF containing, among other things, helpful suggestions about what clothing usually works well and what doesn't, together with the recommendation that they consider having with them a few items of clothing with which to vary their look. That is standard practice for many pro portrait photographers and has been for years.

And to head off your next question, subjects changing their clothing in outdoor/public locations was never anything even resembling a problem.
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OK cool so basically dictating what they can wear but allowing them to bring a few changes of clothes incase what they choose wasn't the style you wanted. Glad we cleared up any confusion
 
danny_bhoy said:
Really like these Gareth, they've got a lovely atmosphere about them! I bet they're over the moon with them.

Which Jose Villa book have you got btw? Might try and pick up a copy.
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Thanks Danny. Yeah they loved them, as did their family. Just hope I have done them justice on their wedding day last weekend.

This is the book I have..... http://josevillabook.com/

Serendipitous Sid said:
Does every shoot have to fit neatly into a specific category?

There are two ways of looking at Gareth's snaps. One is to view them as the work of a very competent amateur photographer, in which case my point is irrelevant. But I understood Gareth to be striving towards earning his living with his camera, in which case it is surely valid to look at them from a professional POV, My point about the pink top derives from doing just that, simply because I can see it grating with some of what I imagine to be Gareth's target market. Not grating enough in itself to lose him a booking, but I've always found that it pays to offer punters as little opportunity as possible to find little niggles in portfolio pictures which, taken together, might just do so.

If you're looking at these from a professional POV too and you either don't see what I'm getting at or you simply disagree, I'm obviously fine with that. :)
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Some interesting points Dan. I had never thought about suggesting what they should/should not wear. My initial thought is that I would rather them feel comfortable.

Out of interest, I would be keen to know what you think my target market is. I kind of have an idea but am slowly starting to realise that it may be somewhat unachievable and should perhaps set my sights a little lower. :)
 
gazmorton2000 said:
Out of interest, I would be keen to know what you think my target market is.
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I don't know. I only know what mine would be in your circumstances, and that is irrelevant because we are very different people.
 
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gazmorton2000 said:
Some interesting points Dan. I had never thought about suggesting what they should/should not wear. My initial thought is that I would rather them feel comfortable.
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Pretty much everyone I know who shoots portraits, even such as Venture, have a sheet they send out about this. At its most obvious clothing harmony make the clothes less of the subject of photos

A family who turn up in their fav re, blue, green, black and Hulk t-shirts may be relaxed in their clothes but it kinda takes over from their faces & interaction a bit compared to the same family turning up in light coloured/black tops

Any pre-Weds I do I just suggest they wear clothes that don't clash or are 'loud', but that still reflect their personality. If they turn up in jeans and white shirts/blouses it looks better than him in a Man Utd shirt & baggy shorts and her in an evening dress :D

Dave
 
DG Phototraining said:
Pretty much everyone I know who shoots portraits, even such as Venture, have a sheet they send out about this. At its most obvious clothing harmony make the clothes less of the subject of photos

A family who turn up in their fav re, blue, green, black and Hulk t-shirts may be relaxed in their clothes but it kinda takes over from their faces & interaction a bit compared to the same family turning up in light coloured/black tops

Any pre-Weds I do I just suggest they wear clothes that don't clash or are 'loud', but that still reflect their personality. If they turn up in jeans and white shirts/blouses it looks better than him in a Man Utd shirt & baggy shorts and her in an evening dress :D

Dave
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Hopefully I am not attracting couples who would dress in hulk t-shirts or football shirts, but I do think you may have said that as a kind of worst case scenario. I see your point though. :)

Serendipitous Sid said:
I don't know. I only know what mine would be in your circumstances, and that is irrelevant because we are very different people.
Click to expand...

I only said that because you mentioned about what you said about it grating with what you imagine is my target market. :)
 
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