Preparing for extreme macro........

J

Jeff Watson

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Edit My Images
No
.........bearing in mind that this is going to be done on my pension. :grumpy:

I was talking to an acquaintance from another forum (hiss, boo), :LOL: and asked what equipment he used to get his excellent shots of real close up insects.

As a result of this conversation, I realised that I hadn't got an f2.8 lens, let alone a dedicated macro lens, only had the flash that was on the camera, didn't have a remote shutter release, a light box with daylight bulbs.......the list goes on.

So after a lot of research:
I have just ordered a Nikon to Praktica lens mount so I can use my old nifty fifty film lens. Cost £30 and is coming from America;
got a set of extension tubes, (that takes care of the dedicated macro lens), and a remote shutter release for £30.
Also on order is an all singing and dancing ring flash that I can adjust to full, half and quarter lighting strength, £30.
I'll use the Sads daylight lamp that we got one winter when we were feeling really down and have never used. (that takes care of the light box).

Now all I have to get now is some entomology pins and make up a killing jar, buy some nail varnish remover and catch a few bugs.

So for £90 odd I will have saved myself something in the region of £300 - £350.

Who was it said, "necessity is the mother of invention"?
 
Dont know if its the right thing to say out loud but ime saying any way,if you have to kill things just to take pictures find something else to do.
 
Not that I agree with your approach and killing the bugs as I prefer them in a natural environment but some this is way of life for cataloguing

What sort of magnification are you looking for, don't think you will get much above 1:1 with the kit you have mentioned above.
 
Not sure yet. I have a number of combinations with three tubes to a maximum of 78mm. I'll just have to see.
 
Jeff Watson said:
Does that go for house flies, cockroaches, fleas, ticks and the like?
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You're not killing them just to take pictures, but I imagine you're well aware of that.
 
Jeff Watson said:
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Now all I have to get now is some entomology pins and make up a killing jar, buy some nail varnish remover and catch a few bugs.
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Seriously??? Your gonna kill things just so you can take pictures of them with a load of cheap gear you've bought. I find that quite pathetic and disturbing. Much better you put some effort in and hone your skills (if any) on capturing live creatures in their natural environment than go about killing things for your pleasure and that includes flys, fleas, cockroaches, ticks etc etc. There are circumstances in which it is valid to kill these things but photography and pleasure ain't among of them.:rolleyes:
 
Yes do agree with people its not right to kill stuff just to photograph them
the real art in macro is going out to nature reserves fields or just your garden and finding the subjects and getting close enough to photograph them
 
Well you're right about one thing, it is certainly extreme macro if your planning to kill things in order to take photographs.
 
Assuming that you decide to photograph live insects have a look through the macro forum one or two of the people on there are getting great high mag results by reversing a standard lens using a threaded adapter
 
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Ye Gods!!!
So none of you have used a fly spray, killed a spider, stamped on a dopey wasp???????

What is it with you people????

How do you think for one minute stacked macros are done???? So are you saying that live insects are skewered to a board to keep them still while the photographs are taken??

Get real!
 
Jeff Watson said:
Ye Gods!!!
So none of you have used a fly spray, killed a spider, stamped on a dopey wasp???????

What is it with you people????

How do you think for one minute stacked macros are done???? So are you saying that live insects are skewered to a board to keep them still while the photographs are taken??

Get real!
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Like I said, there are times, places and reasons for killing bugs but killing them for photographic reasons is just perverse. I've never seen a single picture on here where a bug has been pinned to a board. If you are so short of the necessary skills to be able to take pictures of something you haven't killed them perhaps wildlife and in particular macro photography ain't for you.

I can't believe you actually think your methods will be acceptable to any serious macro photographer and you have the neck to ask whats wrong with us people. Unbelievable FFS!!!!:rolleyes::rolleyes:
 
twist said:
Yeah, seriously, cheap Sony A55, even cheaper minolta 28mm reversed, no bugs killed.... not bad imo











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Yes thats exactly what I meant you went out and found the bugs and got close enough to get great shots with good technique
 
Jeff Watson said:
Ye Gods!!!
So none of you have used a fly spray, killed a spider, stamped on a dopey wasp???????

What is it with you people????

How do you think for one minute stacked macros are done???? So are you saying that live insects are skewered to a board to keep them still while the photographs are taken??

Get real!
Click to expand...

Think you're not getting it
most people on here at least get into macro because they are interested in nature and insects in particular
Killing insects just to get a technically perfect but boring shot of a dead insect is pointless
 
you can collectand save dead insects, i have some in little pots and they havent decaded much to my surprise :eek:

they are found ones
 
Jeff Watson said:
Ye Gods!!!
So none of you have used a fly spray, killed a spider, stamped on a dopey wasp???????

What is it with you people????

How do you think for one minute stacked macros are done???? So are you saying that live insects are skewered to a board to keep them still while the photographs are taken??

Get real!
Click to expand...
I've killed flies and spiders and wasps before now, but not since taking up macro and learning about them. My wife even said she thought of me when she came across a spider in the bathroom the other week; she picked it up (with her bare hands) and put it outside :)

There are, of course, many photographers who kill bugs just to take their picture (I won't deny a well done high magnification stack of a dead insect can be very impressive), but I think you probably need to study them for a while before taking this route. It's not like a hundred years ago when varieties were in abundance and diverse habitats stretched for miles. Nowadays there are lots of species that are struggling and its probably better to encourage them rather than reduce their numbers further. If you don't know what you are doing you could do some damage. Photography, and in particular digital photography, has enabled us to build up large collections of insects without having to kill a single of them and that appeals to me more.

As @BRASH says, there are some legitimate reasons for killing bugs (mainly scientific), but I find photographing live ones much more rewarding. I found a good sized beetle dead in the woods a number of weeks ago, and I got some nice stacks of it. I haven't bothered processing the images yet though as they just don't give me the same satisfaction. Maybe I will at some point. At least I think it was dead, it may just have been resting (it was very cold that day) but either way, it was like that when I found it.

Now that's not to say I don't ever kill bugs. I suspect just lying on the ground to take a picture of a live one kills unknown quantities as I squash the unseen victims into the ground beneath me, but I don't think that should stop me getting out there. It's just that I try to respect nature and cause as little disruption as possible as I go about my hobby, and this philosophy works well for most wildlife photographers. I'll also "manipulate" a subject to get a good shot of it, but I'll try not to cause it too much stress (other macro shooters won't disturb their subjects at all). One thing you'll quickly learn if you do much macro photography out in the wild is that pretty much everything is stressed all the time, just trying to make it through the day, and so learning to be calm and still prevents them getting flighty. Some subjects (and I am talking about you Jumping Spiders) will stick around and pose for you as they try and figure out what it is you are up to!

Check out http://extreme-macro.co.uk/catching-insects/ where this topic is discussed in more detail (along with excellent macro advice in general). My own advice would be to hunt for some already dead bugs to try studio stacks of first. You can also order dead bugs online (but do your research to ensure you are ordering from a responsible dealer). Even better, have a go at hunting the live ones and you may find you have no real desire to shoot the dead ones :)

Here are some examples of stacks I have done of dead insects I have found:

174/365/2013 - Bee by Tim.Garlick, on Flickr
212/365/2013 - Moth's Head by Tim.Garlick, on Flickr
237/365/2013 - American Cockroach by Tim.Garlick, on Flickr

And these are some of the live ones:
342/365/2013 - Barkfly Nymph by Tim.Garlick, on Flickr
Muscid Fly by Tim.Garlick, on Flickr
Common Shiny Woodlouse by Tim.Garlick, on Flickr

You can probably tell that my stacking technique has improved over time (at least I hope it has) but the images of live bugs seem much more dynamic to me, adopting more natural poses you often can't get with dead subjects.

The great thing about my first stacking experiments was that they were all done with cheap equipment (cheap extension tubes, reversing rings and cheap lighting) so you are definitely on the right track there (y)
 
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Jeff Watson said:
Very impressive display. I'll see how I get on.
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Hope this is second thoughts on your chosen method,if so start a new thread and ask for any help you need,you will find a great bunch of members always willing to help,good luck if you go down the live rout its not always easy but very rewarding.
 
Do you know, I posted the OP in the hope that somebody out there actually reads what had been written.

From the OP, it's plain this is the first time I've done this sort of photography and have already stated that I have sought advice from a member of another forum what this path of photography entails. Incidentally, my research also included talking to Entomologists.

From the OP, it's also plain that I am an OAP who is trying to enjoy this fascinating hobby on a very limited budget. (Thank you Tim for noticing that small fact. Actually, thank you for a very informative and considerate post).

Thank you Matt for posting those amazing photos showing there is a different way to do this.

They say that there is no fool like an old fool. Silly me! I really thought that there might be some encouragement for somebody in my position for getting off their ass and being inventive regarding the crippling costs involved in macro photography.

What I didn't expect was to be vilified like Judas Iscariot on what is advertised as the friendliest photographic forum on the Net. However, what does come with age is wisdom and I recognise that it takes all sorts to make this pot pourri we live in.

Still, when all is said and done, I'll continue with my quest to master this branch of photography. I'll certainly try the live route and see how I get on; as I say I am open to advice - I'm not sure it will be here though.

Brash: Thank you soo much for your input into this thread
 
:rolleyes:
 
Jeff i can't understand this fascination with the 'crippling' costs of macro photography? Assuming you already have a body, 1:1 macro lenses can be picked up very cheap on eBay. Especially if you look at older sigma or Tamron lenses which also perform exceptionally well, it's often said that never a bad macro lens has been made.
 
Brazo, this fascination you talk about, is in fact a reality. I've spent £90 and broken the bank. Google how much a pensioner gets a week.
 
Jeff Watson said:
Brazo, this fascination you talk about, is in fact a reality. I've spent £90 and broken the bank. Google how much a pensioner gets a week.
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The fact you are a pensioner on a budget is totally irrelevant. You can pick up a set of extension tubes or reversing ring for 20 quid which are more than capable of taking good macro pics.

The contentious point with me and it would appear many others, is your belief that it's acceptable to go about killing creature for the purposes of your photography. The fact you've allegedly spoken to entomologists is another irrelevance as their purpose is different of that of a photographer.

You have been given plenty of good advice and encouragement on this thread as to how (and to how to NOT) go about getting into macro photography. Instead of having snidey, sarcastic swipes at folk, I suggest you stop being such a cry baby, heed the advice given, get out there, get stuck in to what is the fascinating world of macro and see what you can come up with.

I for one am looking forward to seeing your macro work.
 
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Not fully knowing the kit you have but you needed not spend any more than a £10 to get into macro.

That would buy you a reversing ring.. A kit lens/50mm would give you 1:1 or more yes you would need good light.

But if you have a flash for another £20 can buy a very good softbox which would give you great results.

So fairly inexpensive if you have said kit.
 
BRASH said:
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The fact you are a pensioner on a budget is totally irrelevant. You can pick up a set of extension tubes or reversing ring for 20 quid which are more than capable of taking good macro pics.

The contentious point with me and it would appear many others, is your belief that it's acceptable to go about killing creature for the purposes of your photography. The fact you've allegedly spoken to entomologists is another irrelevance as their purpose is different of that of a photographer.

You have been given plenty of good advice and encouragement on this thread as to how (and to how to NOT) go about getting into macro photography. Instead of having snidey, sarcastic swipes at folk, I suggest you stop being such a cry baby, heed the advice given, get out there, get stuck in to what is the fascinating world of macro and see what you can come up with.

I for one am looking forward to seeing your macro work.
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My belief is based on what I've been told - and now I've been told differently. What is so difficult about understanding that FGS.

Now get off your damned high horse and don't even try to tell me what is and isn't relevant. It's the high handed sanctimonious responses like this that I do so appreciate - not!!
 
Jeff Watson said:
My belief is based on what I've been told - and now I've been told differently. What is so difficult about understanding that FGS.

Now get off your damned high horse and don't even try to tell me what is and isn't relevant. It's the high handed sanctimonious responses like this that I do so appreciate - not!!
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Ha ha. I've told you what IS irrelevant imo and I stick by that. High handed and sanctimonious?? Nah, just being honest and saying what I think of your attitude towards macro photography, living creatures, me and other members on here trying to give you apposite and helpful advice. I sincerely hope as a result of my comments and those of others you have indeed changed your mind about killing things for the purposes of photography. IMO that can only be a good and positive thing.

If you don't like what I say or that way I say it you can always hit the ignore button and as if by magic you'll not see any of my replies. No odds to me, I'll still keep posting as I see fit (within Forum rules). End of!!
 
There is a quotable quote that I have learned to stick by and that is, “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.”

I'll leave it at that.
 
I think everyone needs to calm down. You asked for advice and received rather more than you anticipated from a different direction. Just accept it.

One thing that has not been mentioned and is very relevant, is that most of these creatures are cold blooded, so cannot move quickly in the early morning. If I were in the lucky position of not having to head off to work, I would go out at the very first light (even if only into the garden) armed with the tripod and camera. The bugs will not and cannot move much, if at all, at that time and you will have plenty of time to get all the shots you want, then have nap later.

Good luck!
 
Here's another OAP who started exploring macro last year. In my quest for things that would stay still while I experimented with novel technical details I settled on coins :) For long distance macro (a technical term for more than an inch away from the lens :) ) I settled on a pile of cheap non-electronic extension tubes. I have a cheap completely manual 85mm lens which means it has an aperture ring for controlling the iris. I also have a few completely manual primes from my ancient film days, the kind you can pick up for few pounds at a car boot sale. A 19mm reversed onto the camera body with a reversing adapter gives me about 3:1 macro.

So far so cheap. The next problem was focusing. The slightest touch knocked off the razor thin focus, and my reversed lenses had almost no natural focus adjustment. So I splashed out and got a focussing rail. That turns out to have another unexpected use so in a sense it wasn't so expensive. For the upcoming eclipse I really need a long lens support which lets me mount a long lensed camera at its centre of gravity. A little bit of Blue Peter bodgery turns the macro focusing rail into a long lens support!

I rather like taking macro shots in vivo of small flowers and the sexual organs of large flowers, both of which sometimes have tiny bugs on them. But the slightest breeze makes these things nod about, which makes focus impossible. So I splashed out again and bought a snaky flower clamp which lets me hold a nodding flower steady. One end of the snake clampos the flower stalk gently. The other end clamps to a tripod leg. It's often a struggle getting light to something tiny you're shading with a close lens so I got a cheap LED ring flash to help with that. For very close work it needs the addition of a ring of kitchen foil to reflect the mostly toward light sideways into the centre of the ring.

For flower work I often want to take some macro shots and some simply ordinary close shots, which a dedicated macro set up with tubes or reversing rings won't do. It got very annoying changing lenses all the time. I stretched my budget and bought a cheap second hand 30mm macro. The short focal length helps a bit with depth of focus.

So my macro expenditure so far has been non-electronic extension tubes, a reversed lens mounting ring, a focussing rail, a flower clamp, a second hand 30mm macro lens, and an LED ring "flash".

Mostly what I've bought has been bits of craftily carved metal, the kind of things you used to be able to pick up cheaply in enthusiast camera hardware stores. Those no longer exist. In fact I don't think anyone in the UK makes that kind of thing any more. But if you're prepared to wait for the often ingeniously free post you can get craftily carved metal very cheaply from Hong Kong. Except these days it's not carved by a craftsman, but by programmable machine tools and robots.
 
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