Printing albums at home

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MLse7en

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Hi everyone,

I am looking for information on printing photo albums at home.

I can't find info on how to print albums, all I can find is gazilion ads on abelli, zno, photos app on mac, etc.

What kind of equipment is needed to make albums from scratch or glue pictures to premade albums (like a blank album with thick pages)?

And of course I am looking to print similar albums to zno's flush mount.

I understand that this kind of work would require a hell of a lot of input and man hours, that equipment will take a lot of space.

Is there anyone who know this stuff and can point me in the right direction? Honest to god, was looking for similar thread, but didn't find one.
 
Never heard of Zno - are they American? Personally I use Blurb for most of my photobooks.

Making a photobook from scratch is fairly easy, but a bit of a faff. It's something I do and I went on a course to learn, but there are much easier and cheaper ways of doing things! I use 220gm watercolour paper for the pages, book board for the covers that I wrap in bookbinding cloth.

One option could be something like this: http://www.hahnemuehle.com/en/digital-fineart/inkjet-photo-albums.html

Or you could buy a blank artists book from a craft shop and use spray mount to stick the pictures in.
 
viewfromthenorth said:
Never heard of Zno - are they American? Personally I use Blurb for most of my photobooks.

Making a photobook from scratch is fairly easy, but a bit of a faff. It's something I do and I went on a course to learn, but there are much easier and cheaper ways of doing things! I use 220gm watercolour paper for the pages, book board for the covers that I wrap in bookbinding cloth.

One option could be something like this: http://www.hahnemuehle.com/en/digital-fineart/inkjet-photo-albums.html

Or you could buy a blank artists book from a craft shop and use spray mount to stick the pictures in.
Click to expand...

Thank you for replying. Zno is US brand as far as I know, but I spefically mentioned them as I am looking ti find out uf there is a way of doing something similar at home - cheeper.

Could please elaborate on what sort of books you make?
 
MLse7en said:
Hi everyone,

I am looking for information on printing photo albums at home.

I can't find info on how to print albums, all I can find is gazilion ads on abelli, zno, photos app on mac, etc.

What kind of equipment is needed to make albums from scratch or glue pictures to premade albums (like a blank album with thick pages)?

And of course I am looking to print similar albums to zno's flush mount.

I understand that this kind of work would require a hell of a lot of input and man hours, that equipment will take a lot of space.

Is there anyone who know this stuff and can point me in the right direction? Honest to god, was looking for similar thread, but didn't find one.
Click to expand...

There's an interesting post over on "Photos and Stuff" by Andrew Molitor about the process of making hand-made books... literally making them.
 
MLse7en said:
Thank you for replying. Zno is US brand as far as I know, but I spefically mentioned them as I am looking ti find out uf there is a way of doing something similar at home - cheeper.

Could please elaborate on what sort of books you make?
Click to expand...

This chap describes the types of books I make as he's been on the same workshop as I've done: https://www.onlandscape.co.uk/2015/04/john-blakemore-book-binding-and-sequencing-workshop/

Don't know about the zno type books, there's probably some way of making them at home but it doesn't look easy, and I don't know any suppliers of that type in the U.K.
 
ChrisR said:
There's an interesting post over on "Photos and Stuff" by Andrew Molitor about the process of making hand-made books... literally making them.
Click to expand...

viewfromthenorth said:
This chap describes the types of books I make as he's been on the same workshop as I've done: https://www.onlandscape.co.uk/2015/04/john-blakemore-book-binding-and-sequencing-workshop/

Don't know about the zno type books, there's probably some way of making them at home but it doesn't look easy, and I don't know any suppliers of that type in the U.K.
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andyscott said:
These aren't exactly books but excellent for portfolios

http://www.marrutt.com/pro-photobooks.html
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Box Brownie said:
I think if your intention is to produce quality then perhaps a course in bookbinding such as that offered by this guy who is in north Wales (searching should reveal others)

http://paulcdelrue.com/Courses--and--Teaching.php

For more general lower skilled bindery 'products/methods' check this company out

https://www.opusuk.co.uk
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Thank you for replying.

I have looked through your links and read the articles, thank you.

I think I have been too vague in my first message, sorry about that.

I am looking to get information on printing and making photo books at home, that would look similar to "Artisan State's" now known as "Zno" flush mount albums that have the option of printing one image across the whole opening.

The reason I am looking into this, I have an option to get a small investment in opening a new business. I would start only with printing books for myself. I am not a commercial nor professional photographer. I have had a chance to shoot a wedding for a family member and the book that I ordered was very beautiful, the couple was amazed. Since then I have looked very closely in starting a wedding gig and the falling stone for me is the cost of books - I am not nearly as good to be able to charge people £300(the cost of ordering a book online without mark-up) for a book that would contain doubtful quality images.

So, at this moment, when I have an option of getting a tiny part of EU funds to start a new gig, I have decided to look for an option to print albums at home, that would probably give me a lot of new information and knowledge around taking, processing and, of course, printing them.

At the moment, I think I have about a year to come back to a full time job, in case if my own gig wouldn't give enough income.

So, if there is anyone that has heard about the techniques of printing such books, I would love to hear you out.

P.S.
I hope that my post doesn't offend any pro.
P.P.S.
I am looking for books, because I can't see myself growing if I will be burning CDs of wedding images and investing into printing equipment seems like a very good deal, in terms of ROI.
 
The "flush mount" as they call it with flat opening so that a double page spread lays flat I think is a, or based on, PUR perfect binding method. And the flush cut edges of the books can as far as I know only be achieved by guillotining the semi finished book to produce the clean cut edges.

Like all such highly 'finshed' products they do not always lend themselves to home or very small businesses because of the (high?) cost of investment in equipment.

As for the printing of the pictures within the book, I suspect/surmise that many of the budget albums are digitally printed on the likes of an HP Indigo Press and these in their bigger form are the 800lb gorillas of the digital press world...........but of course you should be able to bookbind any prints, even 'fine art' inkjet printed ones. The choice(s) are yours as to where you get the prints themselves done???
 
Box Brownie said:
The "flush mount" as they call it with flat opening so that a double page spread lays flat I think is a, or based on, PUR perfect binding method. And the flush cut edges of the books can as far as I know only be achieved by guillotining the semi finished book to produce the clean cut edges.

Like all such highly 'finshed' products they do not always lend themselves to home or very small businesses because of the (high?) cost of investment in equipment.

As for the printing of the pictures within the book, I suspect/surmise that many of the budget albums are digitally printed on the likes of an HP Indigo Press and these in their bigger form are the 800lb gorillas of the digital press world...........but of course you should be able to bookbind any prints, even 'fine art' inkjet printed ones. The choice(s) are yours as to where you get the prints themselves done???
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You are right, the correct name would be "lay flat".

As of now, I have never needed prints in quality that exceeds Jessops. That being said, I do not own a printer, so that would be the next subject I would look into.

I was thinking that producing such album would be a metter of a single piece of hardware to put the prints on pages and a seperate piece of hardware to put the book into a cover.

I have never seen someone making a book, so this is completely grey area for me.
 
As alluded to by Box Brownie, I'm not sure that what you want to do is possible with consumer equipment, or at least not to the standard that commercial products are manufactured to. You could maybe try a thermal binder, but I don't know how well they would work with photopaper, and I don't know whether it would produce a lay flat product.
 
From what I have found out so far, people make their own albums using self-adhesive cardboard. This technique allows a layflat album to be made.
 
Box Brownie said:
The "flush mount" as they call it with flat opening so that a double page spread lays flat I think is a, or based on, PUR perfect binding method. And the flush cut edges of the books can as far as I know only be achieved by guillotining the semi finished book to produce the clean cut edges.

Like all such highly 'finshed' products they do not always lend themselves to home or very small businesses because of the (high?) cost of investment in equipment.

As for the printing of the pictures within the book, I suspect/surmise that many of the budget albums are digitally printed on the likes of an HP Indigo Press and these in their bigger form are the 800lb gorillas of the digital press world...........but of course you should be able to bookbind any prints, even 'fine art' inkjet printed ones. The choice(s) are yours as to where you get the prints themselves done???
Click to expand...

Pretty much just like above.
You want to make books at home as you don't think your images are good enough to charge cost price for a professional album, therefore you want to make a lesser quality album at home to sell cheaper filled with your mediocre images? Bit late for April fools surely?
Nothing wrong with dipping a toe in either the photography side or the book binding side but on both counts you need to know what you are doing before charging people.
 
MLse7en said:
From what I have found out so far, people make their own albums using self-adhesive cardboard. This technique allows a layflat album to be made.
Click to expand...

Getting a good fold and crease in the images accurately in the middle keeping the ends square and even is your first assignment before you even think about building the block.
No point spending time and money on the next bit if you can't get this dialled in.
There are semi built blocks out there that can be easily assembled at home, with a photographic lay flat book you are jumping right In at the deep end.
If you then try this with inkjet papers not photographic you are making things a lot trickier again due to how easy it can crack when creased and marked when handled.
 
testbloke said:
Pretty much just like above.
You want to make books at home as you don't think your images are good enough to charge cost price for a professional album, therefore you want to make a lesser quality album at home to sell cheaper filled with your mediocre images? Bit late for April fools surely?
Nothing wrong with dipping a toe in either the photography side or the book binding side but on both counts you need to know what you are doing before charging people.
Click to expand...

testbloke said:
Getting a good fold and crease in the images accurately in the middle keeping the ends square and even is your first assignment before you even think about building the block.
No point spending time and money on the next bit if you can't get this dialled in.
There are semi built blocks out there that can be easily assembled at home, with a photographic lay flat book you are jumping right In at the deep end.
If you then try this with inkjet papers not photographic you are making things a lot trickier again due to how easy it can crack when creased and marked when handled.
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Thanks for the heads up on creasing and using inkjet papers.

This is exactly why I started this thread! I am happy to hear that some people can actually say something that would dhape my opinion!

What I meant about images being not good enough - I have been only at one wedding as a photographer ( my girlfriend was the second ). Thus, we do not have enough experience to charge people to earn on weddings. Considering that a layflat album that we purchased cost us £300+, we would have to charge at least a £1000 to cover our hours spent on the album at minimum national wage.

At this moment I have an opportunity to buy piece of equipment to:
1. Learn how to use it
2. Learn how to print
3. Find tge right materials to build a block, print pictures

I think that this is +/- a good decision, because I am pretty sure that within the first half a year I would get 3 weddings booked tops.

Comming back to creasing - I have also found a piece of equipment, that allows you to align all prints perfectly to crease them the same way. Also, there is a module that makes producing the block much easier.

If anyone likes, I can post a link to a promo video, but it's in Russian. The video would show the whole process. And if there is someone that could tell me if that could be helpful building albums, that woulb be great.

I also have some questions about printers and papers, but I want to research the forum and Google it first.
 
IMO if you are considering buying equipment to make a bound book and your novice status................anyone selling such kit should be offering a demonstration and hands on support!

FWIW ~ I know a good number of craft bookbinders who are still learning and developing their craft even with 30 plus years of experience, and as for the commercial binders with many employees who are equally time served.

I do not say the above to put you off but just the bookbinding will have a learning curve and the biggest test of any business where you are producing a product is how to handle the the issues that crop up.............I would think to add value if you want a USP go and learn and how to make hand made books and market 'the socks off it'.

Please do not spend on kit in the hopeful expectation that the quality will be good enough to sell for top dollar against the likes of the bigger specialist suppliers, that IMO is a mugs game.

At a tangent, there are a growing number of craft paper makers who design stationery and they seem to have found a niche market for "handmade" and "quality" that appeals to the higher spenders!
 
Box Brownie said:
IMO if you are considering buying equipment to make a bound book and your novice status................anyone selling such kit should be offering a demonstration and hands on support!

FWIW ~ I know a good number of craft bookbinders who are still learning and developing their craft even with 30 plus years of experience, and as for the commercial binders with many employees who are equally time served.

I do not say the above to put you off but just the bookbinding will have a learning curve and the biggest test of any business where you are producing a product is how to handle the the issues that crop up.............I would think to add value if you want a USP go and learn and how to make hand made books and market 'the socks off it'.

Please do not spend on kit in the hopeful expectation that the quality will be good enough to sell for top dollar against the likes of the bigger specialist suppliers, that IMO is a mugs game.

At a tangent, there are a growing number of craft paper makers who design stationery and they seem to have found a niche market for "handmade" and "quality" that appeals to the higher spenders!
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I definitely do not feel that you are trying to put me off buying the equipment. I also hope that no one will be offended by my posts.

I think that this is a problem of my generation - I always think "how hard it could be?" And usually the answer is "probably not that hard".

I was hoping that the whole book making was much easier.

Also I can't imagine that Artisan State, GraphiStudio ( or any other commercial album makers that sell more then 5 books a week ) is staffed by highly experienced bookmakers that earn more then minimum wage. But their book quality is well above the quality that can be sold for a good buck to the customer.

So I believe that there is a way of making the same quality books (or even better) at home.

I am not looking to make a better book then a person that had 30+ years of experience and I totally appreciate the craft and amount of labour put into making one book. I hope to find a way to make a book that is available online for £300 at home for a fraction of price.
 
The how hard can it be question is something that comes up across the ages and a lot of industries & processes.

To do what you are trying to do even at the simplest level can likely be 'covered' by investing in the right sort of machinery (expertise not withstanding) but I surmise the bare minimum spend to get anything decent to create all the elements of the book and complete it to a high enough standard would be of the order of £10,000 to £15,000 minimum and I have not included the printer to make the prints in that!

Note - I say kit of a good standard and quality. I have no doubt there is kit out there that promises to make good quality books for less than what I say above but even for low numbers of books what will be your ROI bearing in mind your time for even as few as 5 books per year and the CODB for your business. Remember in business time is money!
 
MLse7en said:
If anyone likes, I can post a link to a promo video, but it's in Russian. The video would show the whole process. And if there is someone that could tell me if that could be helpful building albums, that woulb be great.
Click to expand...

I'd be interested in seeing the video. I have worked in the book making industry for the past 30+ years and have experience of soft, hard and lay flat books on a large scale. Interested in what this machine is like.
 
Box Brownie said:
The how hard can it be question is something that comes up across the ages and a lot of industries & processes.

To do what you are trying to do even at the simplest level can likely be 'covered' by investing in the right sort of machinery (expertise not withstanding) but I surmise the bare minimum spend to get anything decent to create all the elements of the book and complete it to a high enough standard would be of the order of £10,000 to £15,000 minimum and I have not included the printer to make the prints in that!

Note - I say kit of a good standard and quality. I have no doubt there is kit out there that promises to make good quality books for less than what I say above but even for low numbers of books what will be your ROI bearing in mind your time for even as few as 5 books per year and the CODB for your business. Remember in business time is money!
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londonbackpackr said:
I'd be interested in seeing the video. I have worked in the book making industry for the past 30+ years and have experience of soft, hard and lay flat books on a large scale. Interested in what this machine is like.
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It is very unusual to me think in a way as a bysiness person should. Very nice to hear a criticism like this.

I will keep this in mind and see if I will go for it.

Londonbackpacr

This is the link to company's landing page for their product.

And this is the link to the video. Video id hosted on vk.com which is the Russian version of Facebook.

And the second machine that I have found is also Russian and can be made for order. This video is on yt.

I am very eager to hear what you have to say about these machines. Because their cost is super attractive!
 
Well a quick look at those videos especially the first one made me think of this company

http://fastbind.com/en/solutions/fotomount-binding

Video about the photo mount construction http://fastbind.com/en/how-to-videos/videos/fotomount-binding-videos

Video about the case making http://fastbind.com/en/how-to-videos/videos/case-making-videos this one especially by the loo of the first video you link to looks the same bit of kit or a copy of it???

Have a look round that site if that is what might 'work' for you???

One kit they bundle is here http://fastbind.com/images/pdf/leaflets-machine/generic/PDF_E_BUSPACK_No6_F46e_H46Pro.pdf in GBP is £4703 less than I thought it might be but possibly par for the course for such small volume semi skilled target market? i.e. not the more professional kit I was picturing in my other post above!
 
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Righ, this is exactly the same machine, but produced by a Finnish company and it's motorised.

I had a look through the website, thanks for the link.

Are you aware of their prices? Wasn't able to find it on the website.

Have you seen albums that are made this way, do you think that they would look as good as "high-end" artisan state and graphi studio's?
 
If you look on the PDF it says that combo is €5990 I could not find prices elsewhere. But as they sell in effect to the trade that is no great surprise.

As for the quality I have no idea but were I in your shoes I would get in touch with the UK distributor to arramge a demo and sight of the finished item so that you can judge the quality.

But I come back to my original point......even if within the kit range you perhaps can get "it" for say £3000 just how many photo books would you have to make to make a profit and pay off the cost of the kit.

Oh, another very important reason to buy in the UK is the support you will need from the supplier.

PS the Finnish company are as I understand it the manufacturers, is the Russian one from a distro or is it a knockoff copy? Like all copies the price can be a guide........ but even if the genuine article sold cheaply, what about support for you?
 
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All I can say, is the Russian ones look like a cheap knock off of the fastbind ones.

I have used the fastbind fotomount and the casement maker, and they are pretty easy to use but you have to buy the specialist paper to mount into the books and this is quite expensive.

Getting the spreads printed would need to be printed on something more than an inkjet.

Making the casements also requires specialist materials to print on and boards to make the final cover.

Quality wise, I think there are as good as one from photobox and the like but is a pretty expensive way of making a few books a year.
 
Box Brownie said:
If you look on the PDF it says that combo is €5990 I could not find prices elsewhere. But as they sell in effect to the trade that is no great surprise.

As for the quality I have no idea but were I in your shoes I would get in touch with the UK distributor to arramge a demo and sight of the finished item so that you can judge the quality.

But I come back to my original point......even if within the kit range you perhaps can get "it" for say £3000 just how many photo books would you have to make to make a profit and pay off the cost of the kit.

Oh, another very important reason to buy in the UK is the support you will need from the supplier.

PS the Finnish company are as I understand it the manufacturers, is the Russian one from a distro or is it a knockoff copy? Like all copies the price can be a guide........ but even if the genuine article sold cheaply, what about support for you?
Click to expand...

Many good points made here.

Demo would probably be the smartest thing to do here. But something that repells me from fastbind is the fact that binder is motorised. I am afraid to imagine how expensive would be to repair it in case if something goes wrong.

If we take in account that I paid for a book £300, then I can imagine that the cost of tge kit would come back rather quickly. I was able to find their store here.

At this moment my girlfriend is trying to start her own business too. She like to shoot babies and there is only one baby photographer within 15-20 miles, so we are looking to invest in a printer anyway. Also a huge plus is that we both have quit our full time jobs and have time to dedicate ourselves to a new venture.

If she would push albums with her offers, we would be able to sell more books.

But as I mentioned earlier, we are not expecting a lot of bookings in the first half a year, so we could take that time to not only promote our business but try to make a few semple books to show off.

From what I understand the Russian company is the manufacturer. In terms of support, I hardly imagine what that word means for this particular company. I am fluent in 3 languages and one of them is Russian, so I would be able get the initial support from them. Also the consumables that they sell are abou twice cheaper, not sure about the quality.

londonbackpackr said:
All I can say, is the Russian ones look like a cheap knock off of the fastbind ones.

I have used the fastbind fotomount and the casement maker, and they are pretty easy to use but you have to buy the specialist paper to mount into the books and this is quite expensive.

Getting the spreads printed would need to be printed on something more than an inkjet.

Making the casements also requires specialist materials to print on and boards to make the final cover.

Quality wise, I think there are as good as one from photobox and the like but is a pretty expensive way of making a few books a year.
Click to expand...

Would you say that either Fastbind or Russian machine could be operated by a person that has never made a book in his life, like me?

And are you able to judge if commercial album makers like Artisan state or graphi are making their books the same way (building blocks and applying hard covers)? I am asking, just because I would like to know how they can make so many books in such a short time.

Also I wanted to ask if there is a way to apply similar coating, that ie Artisan State is advertising - uv filter and water repelling ability for the pictures, at home without buying a 200 kg machine? I am wondering how artisan state are doing it, if they are able to dispatch an album within 72 hours of placing an order?

Also comming back to printing.

As mentioned above, we were thinking of investing in a printer anyway. I have read a few threads on tp.co.uk and I can see that a lot of people are sharing their experience with Epson printers. My girlfriend wants to be able to produce A2+ size pictures and from what I have read here so far, people are suggesting Epson P800. Would you say that P800 would suit both - printing larger colour and bw baby pictures and pictures for a layflat album? We were hoping to be able to offer albums up to 11 x 14.
 
Talk to Ashgate Automation the UK distro, my reading of the range of kit I think there is a fully manual version of the binding maker. From their website they appear to have a demo room. Though automation is an aid to reproducibility!

As for use by a novice, I surmise the process should be straightforward to learn but be prepared to ruin a few along the way (allow for such wastage in your coatings especially the loss of damaged prints!)

I would ask Maping in Sweden if the Russian model is genuine or a copy of the "original" Mapping/Fastbind one? Oh, with respect to consumables cheaper can mean in long term unreliable and the last thing you want is customer complaint about the album falling apart after say 1 to 2 years???

As for the P800 there is a review of it on Luminous Landscape for your to watch and learn.
 
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MLse7en said:
Many good points made here.

Demo would probably be the smartest thing to do here. But something that repells me from fastbind is the fact that binder is motorised. I am afraid to imagine how expensive would be to repair it in case if something goes wrong.

If we take in account that I paid for a book £300, then I can imagine that the cost of tge kit would come back rather quickly. I was able to find their store here.

At this moment my girlfriend is trying to start her own business too. She like to shoot babies and there is only one baby photographer within 15-20 miles, so we are looking to invest in a printer anyway. Also a huge plus is that we both have quit our full time jobs and have time to dedicate ourselves to a new venture.

If she would push albums with her offers, we would be able to sell more books.

But as I mentioned earlier, we are not expecting a lot of bookings in the first half a year, so we could take that time to not only promote our business but try to make a few semple books to show off.

From what I understand the Russian company is the manufacturer. In terms of support, I hardly imagine what that word means for this particular company. I am fluent in 3 languages and one of them is Russian, so I would be able get the initial support from them. Also the consumables that they sell are abou twice cheaper, not sure about the quality.



Would you say that either Fastbind or Russian machine could be operated by a person that has never made a book in his life, like me?

And are you able to judge if commercial album makers like Artisan state or graphi are making their books the same way (building blocks and applying hard covers)? I am asking, just because I would like to know how they can make so many books in such a short time.

Also I wanted to ask if there is a way to apply similar coating, that ie Artisan State is advertising - uv filter and water repelling ability for the pictures, at home without buying a 200 kg machine? I am wondering how artisan state are doing it, if they are able to dispatch an album within 72 hours of placing an order?

Also comming back to printing.

As mentioned above, we were thinking of investing in a printer anyway. I have read a few threads on tp.co.uk and I can see that a lot of people are sharing their experience with Epson printers. My girlfriend wants to be able to produce A2+ size pictures and from what I have read here so far, people are suggesting Epson P800. Would you say that P800 would suit both - printing larger colour and bw baby pictures and pictures for a layflat album? We were hoping to be able to offer albums up to 11 x 14.
Click to expand...


Ashgate are happy to come out to a company and demo machines, not sure about for individuals but if you are spending money I see no reason why they wouldn't come out.

These machine are not small or light in weight, the casemaker is about 3 1/2 ft x 2 1/2 ft.

I would guess that Artisan has a more automated system to process their books, as for uv filter and water repelling there are machine to apply these coatings. These comapaies are spending £100,000s for the machines to produce these items. That's why these books are produced by large companies and not a cottage industry.

Afraid I can comment on the Epson printer as I've never used one.
 
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