Problem with pop up flash? 450d

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woodbutcher

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On Saturday night I had a phone call, from my sister-in-law, saying her camera wasn't working properly. She said the shutter feels really slow and is leaving black lines on her pictures. I know she normally uses "green square" on her 450d and the built in flash so the only thing I could think of, once checking she had a charged battery, was for her to remove and re-insert the battery. She said that had fixed the problem whilst on the phone.
Last night she came round and it turns out it had only fixed the problem for a short while before the camera went back to behaving as before. She wanted to try my batteries to see if hers was duff but unfortunately mine are different.
I tried to replicate her problem, taking 15 - 20 shots in my house but the camera behaved perfectly.
Here are the problem photos.

Now I can imagine if the flash didn't have the power to light such a big room this would be a similar result but

This is obviously well within the normal operating distances for the built in flash.
There was nothing obscuring the flash and it had fully poped up. I tried gently pushing the flash down to almost closed and still couldn't get the same results.
I hope the metadata is still there but if not they are both ISO400, 1/60, f4, one at 33mm and one at 24mm both on the EF-S 18-55 IS kit lens. Both on fully automatic and flash did fire.
Does anyone know what the problem could have been and how to stop it happening again? I tried searching but to no avail.
 
Was she wearing a hat? I've seen people try to take pictures while wearing a hat which gets in the way of the pop up flash before.
 
Unless the camera is totally buggered it looks like some sort of "user error" !
A finger over the flash maybe ?
 
Good call on the hat, she is the type of person to get dressed up for halloween. Do you know her? Unfortunately I neglected to mention that the pictures taken in portrait orientation, show the dark area as being on the right hand side. She did say she thought her strap must have got in the way but then it happened in landscape so she guessed not. I will check if she was dressed up for the night but I fear the answer will be no.

I am certainly not ruling out "user error" but not being present I can not imagine how she could have held the camera in such a way as to place her finger over the flash. The camera is not totally buggered as I was unable to replicate the shadow in the pictures and it behaved itself perfectly at my house. I would be interested in knowing if it is a sign of the camera "on it's way out"?

Thank you both for your suggestions. I will find the answer to the hat question. I am open to other suggestions that may have caused these pictures. It could of course turn out to be a combination of strap in portrait and hat in landscape but somehow I doubt it.
 
I don't think that's a flash-related problem, to me it looks more like either a broken af mirror spring or the shutter on it's way out, but without seeing the camera those are just guesses.
 
Oh no! I sure hope you are way off the mark FITP. If the mirror spring was broken, would it be able to perform faultlessly the next night at my house?
The camera is owned from new and probably has around 5,000 clicks on it. I know the rateing on the shutter would be a LOT higher than that but I also appreciate that if it is going to fail, it will, regardless of what the rateing given to it says.
I'm hopeing it was a one off and possibly that the pop up flash was at fault. At least that way I could suggest she get a flash gun for her indoor stuff.
 
Could this be a duff battery? If it's not putting out the right ampage somehow, would the flash behave like that? It is the original canon that came with the camera.
 
An update. Talking to my sister-in-law at the moment and I quote "i was wearing a hat with a very big thingy at the top but i cant remember if i had it on every time i took the photo" Do you see what I have to contend with?
Seeing as I couldn't replicate the shadow, I have asked her to shoot some pics inside tonight with her hat on again and see if the shadow comes back and if it goes when she takes the hat off. Fingers firmly crossed.
 
It's something in front of the flash. 100%, can't be anything else. Clear as day :D
 
HoppyUK said:
It's something in front of the flash. 100%, can't be anything else. Clear as day :D
Click to expand...

Well, as partial day in this case ;)

But totally agree. The transition from light to dark seems too soft for something inside the camera - and also the camera worked fine the following day.

Either the hat, or the flash was not popping up far enough. But I really do suspect the hat. She probably moved it or took it off to phone you - and the problem 'fixed itself'.
 
Can't be the mirror in the way - the top shot shows images in the background. That wouldn't occur if there was something in the optical path.... definitely an illumination 'blockage'/failure
 
I don't think it was the flash not popping up far enough Richard as if I pressed it down until it was almost closed and took a picture I still couldn't get the shadow. The brim of a witches hat would appear to be the most likely cause at the moment.
You would think, after 25 years of these shennanigans, I would have learned never to underestimate my wife's sister.
 
It looks like a pub to me...

What exactly is that second pic about? :lol:
 
It is a working mans club so good call on pub. They had a halloween night and I think the second pic is a Frankinstein figure playing a skull guitar. Well that's what I see when I increase exposure +4. Probably sat at the table trying to figure out why her camera isn't working and not shooting the figurine at all but I wanted to show she was close to the wall so not trying to illuminate the whole club.
 
Were there any bats in there? :eek:
 
I don't quite understand what you mean Hoppy? Are you refering to another thread elsewhere I have missed or were you thinking of something scarey as an excuse to use the eek smilie? There were indeed bats, ghosts, skeletons, spiders, webs, vampires pumpkins, witches, gravestones and even a werewolf or two. Her mother-in-law runs the club and they really do go to town on the decorations.
 
SOLVED! - The results of the test shots are in and kudos to CSB, for first pointing it out and the rest of you guys who confirmed the suspicions, that it was indeed on oversized witches hat that caused her to miss almost ALL her shots on Saturday. Also thank-you to FITP and eos1 for supplying (thankfully) wrong answers with the limited information I could provide. Removing said hat should prove to be a lot cheaper than a new shutter.

:thankyou:
 
chuckles said:
Can't be the mirror in the way - the top shot shows images in the background. That wouldn't occur if there was something in the optical path.... definitely an illumination 'blockage'/failure
Click to expand...


I know it's not the problem in this case, however when the af mirror spring fails the resulting images are just like that. The reason is that the submirror bounces when the spring fails so briefly crosses the exposed sensor, rather than completely blocking it.
 
Flash In The Pan said:
I know it's not the problem in this case, however when the af mirror spring fails the resulting images are just like that. The reason is that the submirror bounces when the spring fails so briefly crosses the exposed sensor, rather than completely blocking it.
Click to expand...

Makes sense.... :cool:
 
Flash In The Pan said:
I know it's not the problem in this case, however when the af mirror spring fails the resulting images are just like that. The reason is that the submirror bounces when the spring fails so briefly crosses the exposed sensor, rather than completely blocking it.
Click to expand...

Makes sense.... :cool:

Was only thinking of the 'viewing' mirror :eek:
 
Not as glad as she is financially or I am headache wise. I could run with this one until at least the New Year but seeing as I didn't solve it, it hardly seems fair. Oh well, there is plenty of history and I'm sure plenty more to come.
 
FITP - I repeat the question, for future reference and the fact I have no idea, if the spring fails can the camera then perform floorless the next night?
 
Flash In The Pan said:
I know it's not the problem in this case, however when the af mirror spring fails the resulting images are just like that. The reason is that the submirror bounces when the spring fails so briefly crosses the exposed sensor, rather than completely blocking it.
Click to expand...

But that would shade the bottom of the pic, as the image is upsidedown on the sensor.
 
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