Problems with sharp focus without using flash

gothgirl

gothgirl

Messages
1,589
Edit My Images
Yes
I'm struggling to get a sharp focus indoors when not using flash.

I hate using the on board flash as even when set as low as possible, but whenever I don't use the flash, I.e Aperture priority mode, F4 in med - well lit room, the focus is never as sharp as when using flash, I normally use an ISO of 200 with a max of 400 depending on the conditions, but I'm struggling to get a sharp focus most of the time.

What can I do other than use flash? I bought a diffuser for the on board flash, which diffuses the light, but does so by bouncing it back into my face, which is not very helpful.

Any tips?
 
Look at your shutter speed. At f/4 and 200 ISO, without flash, I suspect it will be far too low, unless by "well lit room" you mean sunlight, or daylight at least. You may have a focusing problem, but my guess is shake/blur.
 
Get a wider lens? 50mm 1.8/1.4 or 35mm 1.8 will give excellent indoor low light results without flash.
 
Hard to say for sure, without seeing sample photo with settings.

But, a flash will increase sharpness, because it kills noise, and noise can cause softness.

I get good sharpness, even at say ISO 1000, indoors, using a 580EX II flash.

Post-processing can work wonders. Lightroom 3 is very good at noise reduction, and sharpening.

Consider getting a better flash, even Canon's smallest flash will work much better than the pop-up one.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Canon-Speed..._1_cc_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1302030799&sr=1-2-catcorr

They have a 270EX II on the way, so the current 270EX should be good value.
 
I found using f/2.8 at ISO 500 works well. This should be fast enough to counter camera shake. This was with the Sigma 50mm EX DG Macro.

5571628561_42549a506b_z.jpg
 
Last edited:
dan-marsh said:
Field of focus is not so excellent, nor is sharpness with a 50mm f/1.8 at f/1.8. Cheap lenses do not provide sharpness at wide apertures.
Click to expand...

I'm usually taking pics of people when using the camera indoors so the DOF is just the way I prefer it tbh. My 35mm is plenty sharp wide open, I wouldn't say it was a very expensive lens.
 
can the OP post some pics so we can see the problems?
 
Here's an example Pic (They're mike n ikes haha)

Well lit room, focus smack bang in the centre of where I want it to be, plain back ground, ISO 200, F4 or therabouts.

But the picture is soft and not sharp.

DSC_0017.jpg
 
To see if it is camera shake, set up for a similar shot as the one you've posted and take two pictures. Take one hand held as you have done here and another on a tripod (or table, box, anything to take your hands out of the equation) using the timer release so you're not touching the camera when the picture is taken. Then post the results here.
 
Stratman said:
To see if it is camera shake, set up for a similar shot as the one you've posted and take two pictures. Take one hand held as you have done here and another on a tripod (or table, box, anything to take your hands out of the equation) using the timer release so you're not touching the camera when the picture is taken. Then post the results here.
Click to expand...

Is camera shake a big factor with speeds of around 1/60th of a second? I thought even though it is relatively low for the camera that it wouldn't make much of a difference, I do have shaky hands, but a lovely member on here:love: is sending me a hand grip so hopefully that will help??
 
Shooting at 1/60 is a bit marginal for that focal length, unless the lens has VR or you were using a tripod. The front edge of the beans(?) actually does look sharp, and that is where the focus point appears to have been aimed. The problem is that even at f/5.6 you do not have enough DOF to cover the beans(?) at the rear.

Furthermore, if you were shooting this hand held can you be absolutely certain that you did not move, even by a whisker, between focusing and taking the shot?

You were only at 100 ISO. Try 1/125, 400 ISO, f/8.
 
tdodd said:
Shooting at 1/60 is a bit marginal for that focal length, unless the lens has VR or you were using a tripod. The front edge of the beans(?) actually does look sharp, and that is where the focus point appears to have been aimed. The problem is that even at f/5.6 you do not have enough DOF to cover the beans(?) at the rear.

Furthermore, if you were shooting this hand held can you be absolutely certain that you did not move, even by a whisker, between focusing and taking the shot?

You were only at 100 ISO. Try 1/125, 400 ISO, f/8.
Click to expand...


God I can never get DOF right, it is a VR lens.
So I need to either zoom out or increase the focal length?
 
You've lost me completely. I never mentioned changing focal length or zooming in or out.

VR means that camera shake is probably not the issue, so long as you had it turned on, which brings us to focus and DOF as the issue.

The focusing looks fine, but the plane of acceptable sharpness is very slender and you have focused at the front tip of your subject, meaning that about 50% of the DOF you have is wasted in the thin air in front of your closest bean. You can stop down for increased DOF or focus a little further back into the pile in order to distribute the DOF where it will be of more use.

You can use the calculator here - http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html - to work out your actual DOF for your setup.
 
tdodd said:
You've lost me completely. I never mentioned changing focal length or zooming in or out.

VR means that camera shake is probably not the issue, so long as you had it turned on, which brings us to focus and DOF as the issue.

The focusing looks fine, but the plane of acceptable sharpness is very slender and you have focused at the front tip of your subject, meaning that about 50% of the DOF you have is wasted in the thin air in front of your closest bean. You can stop down for increased DOF or focus a little further back into the pile in order to distribute the DOF where it will be of more use.

You can use the calculator here - http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html - to work out your actual DOF for your setup.
Click to expand...


Will try adjusting the DOF, I suppose trial and error would be best on a still subject, set up the scene and shoot it at a few different DOF's and see which is best?
 
Increase the f number to get a greater DoF. I thought if a tripod was being used it was best to turn off the VR?

Are you doing a still life for the bootcamp? I would suggest taking the shot from a higher vantage point to get more of the beans in the frame.
 
chopchop said:
Increase the f number to get a greater DoF. I thought if a tripod was being used it was best to turn off the VR?

Are you doing a still life for the bootcamp? I would suggest taking the shot from a higher vantage point to get more of the beans in the frame.
Click to expand...

Yes it was a practice shot for bootcamp, still can't decide what to do for my entry though :thinking:
 
If you have a static subject where DOF is important then the best thing IMHO would be to shoot with a tripod. You can turn off VR, drop the ISO to your base ISO (not sure if that is 200 or 100) and then stop down to maybe f/11, possibly f/16 max. With the tripod in play an extended shutter duration will not be a problem, if you use mirror lockup and remote or timed shutter release. If you have Live View (or whatever Nikon calls it) then you should be able focus very precisely into the centre of the pile to improve the DOF position.

By the way, I plugged some numbers into DOFMaster. I assumed a subject distance of 30cm and with your camera at 55mm and f/5.6 the DOF is just 5.5mm (1/2 cm). That is not much to start with, and only half that is useful if you focus on the front edge of the front bean. That leaves very little wiggle room for focus error.

Even at 60cm distance you only get a DOF of 2.45 cm, which if halved due to focusing at the front will not leave much to cover the beans at the back.
 
tdodd said:
If you have a static subject where DOF is important then the best thing IMHO would be to shoot with a tripod. You can turn off VR, drop the ISO to your base ISO (not sure if that is 200 or 100) and then stop down to maybe f/11, possibly f/16 max. With the tripod in play an extended shutter duration will not be a problem, if you use mirror lockup and remote or timed shutter release. If you have Live View (or whatever Nikon calls it) then you should be able focus very precisely into the centre of the pile to improve the DOF position.

By the way, I plugged some numbers into DOFMaster. I assumed a subject distance of 30cm and with your camera at 55mm and f/5.6 the DOF is just 5.5mm (1/2 cm). That is not much to start with, and only half that is useful if you focus on the front edge of the front bean. That leaves very little wiggle room for focus error.

Even at 60cm distance you only get a DOF of 2.45 cm, which if halved due to focusing at the front will not leave much to cover the beans at the back.
Click to expand...

For bootcamp it has to be handheld and F4.
 
gothgirl said:
Yes it was a practice shot for bootcamp, still can't decide what to do for my entry though :thinking:
Click to expand...

There's been about 600 entries so far so choosing something original is difficult!

The entry doesn't have to be handheld and f4- where did you get that info?
The only stipulations are using aperture mode and exposure comp to get the black/white background exposed correctly- tripods definately allowed.
 
chopchop said:
There's been about 600 entries so far so choosing something original is difficult!

The entry doesn't have to be handheld and f4- where did you get that info?
The only stipulations are using aperture mode and exposure comp to get the black/white background exposed correctly- tripods definately allowed.
Click to expand...

The video, with the hessian and peas?
 
gothgirl said:
The video, with the hessian and peas?
Click to expand...

Hi, sorry about the late reply, ive been in work all day.

The peas and hessian thing is just a walkthrough of doing a still life. It sounds as if the vid was as unclear as the magazine that this wasn't the task for the module.

If you have the magazine, look on p47 in the box entitled 'work on it'. All the details of the task are featured there including the use of a tripod in the considerations of how to complete the task.
 
chopchop said:
Hi, sorry about the late reply, ive been in work all day.

The peas and hessian thing is just a walkthrough of doing a still life. It sounds as if the vid was as unclear as the magazine that this wasn't the task for the module.

If you have the magazine, look on p47 in the box entitled 'work on it'. All the details of the task are featured there including the use of a tripod in the considerations of how to complete the task.
Click to expand...



Flash will only freeze the shot if the ambient light isn't too bright. If ambient is high then camera shake or subject movement creeps in with the ambient exposure at slower shutter speeds.

I was wondering what model of camera you are using. Some like the nikon D3 don't have focus assist on the camera body and using a speedlight gives you the focus assist. I actually use an sb900 with the flash disabled sometimes if I want the focus assist light that the flash provides but can't use flash, like during a wedding ceremony.

The idea that you can handhold at 1/60th is a left over from the days when cameras would only sync with the flash at that speed. But as a rule of thumb just use the focal length, ie 100mm 1/100th and IS will give you more breathing room, in fact quite a lot I'm some cases.
 
I just had a look at your pic on a computer and I agreethat it look like a DOF issue. Looks like you are focused right on the front of the beans at the front.

With the settings I think you will struggle to get front to back sharpness on those beans at that low angle, unless you move back but then they will be smaller in the frame, you might just get it if you focus in the middle of the beans. Remember the area that will be in focus extends both in front of and behind the point you focus on, as a rule of thumb I focus about a third ito the area I want sharp.

Having said that do you really want all the beans sharp? I would use an ever bigger pile of beans and try to throw some of the beans more out of focus. But it's your thing so good luck with it, I really want one of those beans now.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top