Processing Fuji files.

woof woof

woof woof

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I keep looking at the Fuji X cameras and I recently downloaded some RAW's from DPR and converted them to DNG before processing them in CS5. I used the exact same setting I'd use for 5D and G1 files (a small touch of NR, sharpening and mild boost to contrast, saturation and vibrance.)

The images look good to me as do Nex 6 and OMD files I downloaded and processed the same way. However... the Fuji ISO 200 file has a grid of dots which becomes visible at about 200%.

This is a heavy crop, something like 5-600% just to make it visible on screen here although as I said, it's visible on my screen at 200%.



I wondered if anyone else has seen this and if it's a result of processing in CS5 or not. Perhaps this grid of dots isn't visible when processed with Fuji software?

Any pointers would be appreciated.
 
I never convert to DNG, but just tried a full res JPEG from the fuji x100s, viewed it at 400% and 500% and just looked the normal type stretching, at 600% that changed to tiny squares, like when you look up real close to an old tube tv.

After doing this though, I'm very impressed by the files from this cam. I never go beyond 100% view, and to see them at 400%, still looking sharp, was impressive.
 
The dots I see is deffo a different thing.

If I zoom in the same amount with Nex 6 and OMD files at base ISO I begin to see squares but no matter how much I zoom I never see this grid of dots.

With the Fuji file at high % in each grid of 4x4 squares the corner ones are darker leading to this visible grid at 200%. Viewed at the same % the Sony and OMD 4x4 grid is all the same shade.
 
I don't know.

I've never heard/read of anyone else spotting this "grid."

It could be something wrong with the DPR files, a result of the conversion to DNG or something CS5 has done. At the moment I just don't know and I'm hoping that someone else has a clue...

Not that I would zoom to 600%... but it becomes very visible at 200% and would possibly put me off.
 
Hi, I have both a X20 and a X-E1. I only use them in RAW capture and convert all my files to DNG. When I was using CS5 they suffered from exactly the same grid pattern that you are experiencing. When the same files are opened in CS6 the grid patterning has gone and the images from both cameras look a whole lot better.

Initially these files were processed via the downloaded version of Adobe DNG Converter, as CS5 would not read the RAW files at the time until upgraded.

I too put it down to the X-trans sensor but apparently it is something to do with CS5. I did read an article about this somewhere hence the reason for upgrading to CS6.

I have just re checked some files using both CS5 & CS6 and in CS5 the grid pattern is there, in CS6 it has gone. Also before anyone asks why are both versions still on my computer ? It's a long story.

Hope this helps.
 
Thanks.

I do really fancy an X camera but I'm put off by not being able to shoot RAW at ISO 100. I have been thinking that I should get one and fit an ND but the grid pattern is just yet another issue to consider.

Going for a Nex 6 would mean I could shoot RAW at ISO 100 and there are no processing issues to consider other than converting to DNG. The X cameras just look good though.


G.K.Jnr. said:
Initially these files were processed via the downloaded version of Adobe DNG Converter, as CS5 would not read the RAW files at the time until upgraded.
Click to expand...

I've tried updating both CS5 RAW converter and DNG to no effect. It looks like Adobe have stopped updating CS5 and DNG.
 
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Definitely CS5, here's a crop from CS6:

v9UDp2e.png


Try using Fuji's free raw convertor to open up a RAF, export it as a TIFF and then see if it's still happening in CS5. Also, does it show up in exported JPGs? It could just be the way ACR in CS5 is demosaicing the XTrans array for working in PS.
 
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It shows up in JPEG's and indeed the crop I posted here is from a JPEG.

I don't have the Fuji camera or the Fuji software but if I did buy an X camera I'd most likely / probably / may want to use something else as I've never liked the software bundled with cameras.

I suppose an upgrade to CS6 wouldn't kill me or maybe I could pick up a copy of Elements as I think the later versions include a RAW processor? and if so doubtless it'd be a newer version than CS5's?

Anyway, this is just something to think about as the BIG issue for me personally is the lack of ISO 100.
 
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woof woof said:
I've tried updating both CS5 RAW converter and DNG to no effect. It looks like Adobe have stopped updating CS5 and DNG.
Click to expand...

Hi, Sorry I didn't make myself quite clear the downloaded version of the Adobe DNG Converter you need is :- 7.4.0.137 it is a stand alone converter available from the downloads section of the Adobe web site.
It is not an add on to CS5.

RAW files from Fuji X cameras can be converted to DNG via this version of the DNG Converter, and then opened in CS5 as a normal DNG file.

The grid pattern shows when the file is opened in CS5 but does not show when exactly the same converted file is opened in CS6.

Hope this helps.
 
The Fuji convertor can be found here:

http://www.fujifilm.com/support/digital_cameras/software/myfinepix_studio/rfc/v32130/index.html

It's got a horrible UI though. LR4.4 and LR5 work well - might be worth looking at LR5 if you end up with an X since it'll handle the conversions for CS5 (if you need it after adjustments in LR) quite quickly. Capture One Pro apparently does the best conversions for XTrans, perhaps the Express version also shares the same raw convertor (both have trials too).

The base ISO doesn't bother me personally since I shoot stopped down quite a lot, and if I do want to do the whole wide open in daylight thing I'm not averse to using an ND filter.
 
When they update Adobe CS (?) and lightroom, they also update the Adobe DNG converter to the latest version Raw engine. BUT you need to down load the new version... It has been updated for the new Fuji sensors recently. Any file seen over 100% is fairly useless, depending on the algorithm used for the expansion.

Very few new cameras have a natural base iso of 100, most are now over that, but interpret a file for the lower 100 iso setting. For all the difference it makes, you could simply use the exposure adjustment dial to give the result you want, and re-adjust the exposure later when you convert the raw file.
 
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G.K.Jnr. said:
Hi, Sorry I didn't make myself quite clear the downloaded version of the Adobe DNG Converter you need is :- 7.4.0.137 it is a stand alone converter available from the downloads section of the Adobe web site.
Click to expand...

That's the version I'm using and results in the dots.
 
Terrywoodenpic said:
When they update Adobe CS (?) and lightroom, they also update the Adobe DNG converter to the latest version Raw engine. BUT you need to down load the new version... It has been updated for the new Fuji sensors recently. Any file seen over 100% is fairly useless, depending on the algorithm used for the expansion.

Very few new cameras have a natural base iso of 100, most are now over that, but interpret a file for the lower 100 iso setting. For all the difference it makes, you could simply use the exposure adjustment dial to give the result you want, and re-adjust the exposure later when you convert the raw file.
Click to expand...

I've tried up update the Adobe RAW converter but CS5 doesn't seem to take it and keeps using the old version, I assume because it can't use the very newest.

I realise that CSC's are moving away from ISO 100 and it bugs the t&ts off me (pardon my French) and although I keep looking at newer cameras I seriously doubt that I'll be buying a serious camera with a base of ISO 200 or even 160. One day my own little test with my G1 set to ISO 200 resulted in the largest aperture I could use being 7.something for any shot with a significant amount of sky in it and this is in northern England. On most days I'm restricted to f2.8 or smaller at ISO 100 at best.

I do have a couple of ND's I use with my G1 but constantly fitting and removing them from shot to shot isn't for me and if this is the way that CSC's are going I'll simply keep my G1 or get a Nex 6 or revert back to my 5D. I know that years ago we felt ourselves lucky to have a shutter speed of 2000 but it isn't 1950 anymore.

Anyway rant over, but it helps me to focus my mind on how I want to shoot.
 
woof woof said:
...I do really fancy an X camera but I'm put off by not being able to shoot RAW at ISO 100...
Click to expand...

I've got an X20 (and had an X10 before it) and both shoot RAW at ISO100... Unless I'm missing something here. :shrug:
 
The changeable lens ones will shoot JPEG at 100 but RAW starts at 200. AFAIK.
 
CS5 doesn't support the version of ACR needed to process fuji raw files, you need CS6 or lightroom 4.4.

Converting to DNG isn't that great but there is a saving grace.. you actually dont NEED to shoot raw on the fuji, the jpg's OOC are that darnn good, in fact its hard to beat the in camera raw conversion (everyone forgets that you can also manually convert the raws in camera with the same engine).

I shoot low light, wildlife, portraits, macro & still life, had my X-Pro1 for a good few months now and never had to use a raw file yet.

I would suggest taking a decent card to either a shop or a friend that has the camera and shooting a few images, then go home and have a look at the results.
 
There aren't any changeable lens Fuji's for 100 miles but I can handle a Nex 6 and have done so :D but even that took a 1h 20m train ride.

I suppose part of the problem is that I don't like being dictated to and just because Fuji have deceided that their base ISO should be 200 and 100 should only be available in JPEG doesn't mean that I have to agree. In fact I don't. I think it's a PITA.

I really am trying hard to persuade myself that I could live with a Fuji but the gripes just pile up for me and I know that if I bought one I'd drop kick it over a hedge in frustration and annoyance at some point (can't shoot RAW at 100... gotta shoot JPEG or shoot RAW at 200 and hope you can dial in enough compensation or fit the ND, plus this software issue...) I think I will have to give up.

Thanks for sorting out the dot issue guys.
 
This ISO 100 thing really gets to you! :D

I dunno, anything below ISO 400 these days I don't even think about. Only start to watch it as I go way beyond that really.
 
Yes it does.

Most of the CSC manufacturers make nice fast lenses but the systems are hobbled in two ways now. You're limited to 1/4000 second and with the newer cameras the base ISO is rising. Madness, if you like shooting with wide apertures in good light.

I've always liked the shallow DoF look and with the smaller systems the tendency is to use wider lenses so to maintain the shallow DoF look, if that's what you want, you need to use ever wider apertures.

To me full frame is bordering on the limit of what it's possible for me to shoot hand held and I'm drawn to the smaller systems because at their best they allow shallow enough DoF and also ease hand held shooting as it's possible to get decent DoF at wider apertures thus reducing the fight against low shutter speeds and / or higher ISO's.

At the moment I sometimes need two stacked ND's, 2 and 4, when using my wider aperture lenses at ISO 100 and moving to a camera with a base of 160 or even worse 200 would I'm sure be... awful... as I already feel I'm juggling ND's too much.

I'm going to give it a year and if CSC continue down this path I'll probably start using my big fat and heavy DSLR more.
 
You should just buy a film camera, a fast 50, some NDs, and load it with some Ektar 100 (best exposed at 80), some Ilford Pan F (ISO50), and finally some Adox CMS (ISO20). :p I know someone who uses a Leica M + Noctilux + Agfa APX25 + ND filter often and the results are very nice.
 
Or just get a D800

You can have 1/8000 and ISO 100 [or fakey it down to 50]

What it can't do though, is sync better than 1/250 with flash, whereas the fuji new cam's can do 1/4000, f/2.8, with flash ;)
 
FruitFlakes said:
You should just buy a film camera, a fast 50, some NDs, and load it with some Ektar 100 (best exposed at 80), some Ilford Pan F (ISO50), and finally some Adox CMS (ISO20). :p I know someone who uses a Leica M + Noctilux + Agfa APX25 + ND filter often and the results are very nice.
Click to expand...

I've had RF's and quality 35mm's and I still have a couple of compact film cameras but I'm digital now.

I know how to use ND's but I just think it's too much hassle. They have to be on for one shot to drop the shutter speed to something the camera can handle and off for the next shot when the shutter speed drops through the floor and the ISO hits the moon. It's ok if you like to be very slow and don't mind all the juggling of kit but I've been spoilt by DSLR's with 1/8000 shutter speed, ISO 100 and being able to shoot at f1.4 and I don't want to return to the days of not being able to shoot how I want to and only shooting to the limitations of the camera.
 
Cagey75 said:
Or just get a D800

You can have 1/8000 and ISO 100 [or fakey it down to 50]

What it can't do though, is sync better than 1/250 with flash, whereas the fuji new cam's can do 1/4000, f/2.8, with flash ;)
Click to expand...

I have no interest in flash photography but I do have a 5D and a bag full of lenses but personally I find a DSLR too big, too heavy and too conspicuous. Much more so in each instance than my SLR's were, that's another PITA.

I was hoping to be able to ditch my DSLR kit for a CSC setup but as time goes on it's looking less likely than more likely. At least my first gen G1 can shoot RAW at ISO 100.

I know I'm hard to please but as CSC technology has moved on it just seems to have moved further from my ideal of a compact and light setup to replece my DSLR and RF's / compact film cameras.
 
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Silkypix has also recently upgraded the raw converter For Fuji cameras the latest version is 3.2.13.0
It does a much better job with X10 files ... with out the old strange mosaicking at high enlargement. and better colour. very similar to the Jpegs in fact.
 
woof woof said:


I wondered if anyone else has seen this and if it's a result of processing in CS5 or not. Perhaps this grid of dots isn't visible when processed with Fuji software?

Any pointers would be appreciated.
Click to expand...

It looks to me that the shot you downloaded was from a reproduction of some kind, and what you see is either the printing screen or a combination of that and the way the X20 sensor reproduces it. A normal sensor with filter would have blurred it out of existence.
 
Terrywoodenpic said:
It looks to me that the shot you downloaded was from a reproduction of some kind, and what you see is either the printing screen or a combination of that and the way the X20 sensor reproduces it. A normal sensor with filter would have blurred it out of existence.
Click to expand...

No, it's not a reproduction or a printing screen or any combination of.

What I downloaded was DPR's standard test shot they seem to use in all their camera reviews. At the same time I also downloaded Nex 6 and OMD images and in the past I've downloaded several other camera test shots at various ISO's and no others suffered this dot pattern. Only the Fuji.

I belive that G.K.Jnr explained what's going on at post 6 and that it's a result of processing the image in CS5.

This is what the whole test image looks like...



You can download them from any recent DPR camera review.

PS. Just wanted to add a comment on their high ISO test shots... They're pretty meaningless IMVHO. I can't remember ever wanting to take a high ISO shot of a static subject with a shutter speed in the 1/1000-1/1600 sec range. A shot at ISO 3200/6400 with a shutter speed of 1/20-1/100 would be much more of a realistic test. A test shot with a shutter speed into the 1/1000's seems to indicate good light to me and is pretty much bound to give a good result.
 
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Can't see a review on there, just a preview still. I'm waiting to see if they rate it higher than the Ricoh GR, as they really seemed to love that, and I considered going for that when deciding over a few models. The fuji only just grab my attention that bit more.
 
Wait, DPR actually reviewed the Ricoh GR?! I remember them doing a preview for the GRDIII and never getting around to actually doing a proper review of it. :lol:
 
I'm going off topic here but as I'm in the mood to kick DPR's high ISO test images I've just shot this self portrait with my G1 at ISO 3200.



As you can see it's a pretty impressive high ISO performance from a camera not noted for its high ISO ability.

Oh, hang on a minute... the shutter speed is over 1/1000 sec which indicates a good deal of light in the scene and pretty much zero reason to shoot at high ISO :thinking:

Maybe that little thought should pop into someones head at DPR :bang:
:D
 
I have tried the new Lightroom with RAW X20 shots and it is not too bad ... however It is difficult to get results as good or as easily as from silkypix.
I now process them in silkypix which dumps the adjusted and converted Tifs into a new sub folder (In my photograph folder). These are then adjusted in CS3 as necessary, before filing as collections and keywording in Lightroom.

(In the long term, I may or may not hang in to the Original RAF files and the Silkypix sidecar file.)

Jpegs are adjusted as needed in photoshop, before moving to lightroom. It is easier that way round as I have LR4 but only CS3
 
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