Professional Landscape Photography vs Lockdown

That doesn't even merit a reply.

Yet ironically you did ?

What is the issue, if you are a professional photographer you make the majority of your earnings from photography, if you want to call yourself a wedding photographer, knock yourself out, I am a professional photographer as such I can photograph anything I like, its not a difficult concept to understand.
 
This statement indicates that you are not currently a professional landscape photographer. Therefore you won't be going to work as one, as that is not what you genuinely are, is it?

I want to be, in particular by the time I retire - I would like to expand my earning potential as a self-employed photographer.

I am not a supermarket worker and I am not office or warehouse worker - these jobs are out there and you would not deny me these opportunities, but they would certainly incur a lot more risk when it comes to spreading the virus.

I would rather invest my time into me and my business, and I see a considerably more safe way to do it - and I'm just wrestling with whether that idea is acceptable. Not to you I know.
 
I want to be, in particular by the time I retire - I would like to expand my earning potential as a self-employed photographer.

I am not a supermarket worker and I am not office or warehouse worker - these jobs are out there and you would not deny me these opportunities, but they would certainly incur a lot more risk when it comes to spreading the virus.

I would rather invest my time into me and my business, and I see a considerably more safe way to do it - and I'm just wrestling with whether that idea is acceptable. Not to you I know.

OK, If you are NOT currently a professional photographer then NO you cannot decide to be one and go for a jolly in the countryside. during the current climate.
 
Yet ironically you did ?

What is the issue, if you are a professional photographer you make the majority of your earnings from photography, if you want to call yourself a wedding photographer, knock yourself out, I am a professional photographer as such I can photograph anything I like, its not a difficult concept to understand.

Part of me sees your point. However, I’m a teacher, but I couldn’t teach physics because that isn’t my specialism. Same applies to photography in my opinion, each genre requires different knowledge.
 
OK, If you are NOT currently a professional photographer then NO you cannot decide to be one and go for a jolly in the countryside. during the current climate.

Oh I am a professional photographer :) but even still who are we to say people can only go work for existing businesses and not start their own because it takes them outdoors. Can I not become a gardener, because I wasn't a gardener before the lockdown? So it's ok for them to go house to house and mow lawns but not me?
 
Part of me sees your point. However, I’m a teacher, but I couldn’t teach physics because that isn’t my specialism. Same applies to photography in my opinion, each genre requires different knowledge.

I typically photograph weddings, schools, (live music, street, nature, pets) - those include landscape, architecture, sports, documentary, portraits.. all sorts.
 
Last edited:
I typically photograph weddings and schools, those include landscape, architecture, sports, documentary, portraits.. all sorts.

Yes I know you seem to do a variety of things but surely you wouldn’t class yourself as a professional in every single one of those disciplines?

I’m not trying to argue or create debate with you by the way my response was to studio.
 
@dancook where do you think a typical landscape photographer generates most of their income from?? It’s not from print sales, calendars, glossy books, etc it’s from workshops and 1-2-1s - is that what you envisage doing in your retirement? Because I can tell you it’s hard work and physically demanding. Some also manage to generate an income from YouTube but often that’s used as an enabler to get more workshop sales. Very few make a good income from print sales.

BtW I’m in the camp that you shouldn’t be going out in the current climate, it may not be forbidden in the current climate but it’s certainly not within the spirit

spend the time researching workshops and YouTube.........
 
Yes I know you seem to do a variety of things but surely you wouldn’t class yourself as a professional in every single one of those disciplines?

I wouldn't call myself a "professional sports photographer", but a professional photographer who can shoot sport :)
 
@dancook where do you think a typical landscape photographer generates most of their income from?? It’s not from print sales, calendars, glossy books, etc it’s from workshops and 1-2-1s - is that what you envisage doing in your retirement? Because I can tell you it’s hard work and physically demanding. Some also manage to generate an income from YouTube but often that’s used as an enabler to get more workshop sales. Very few make a good income from print sales.

BtW I’m in the camp that you shouldn’t be going out in the current climate, it may not be forbidden in the current climate but it’s certainly not within the spirit

spend the time researching workshops and YouTube.........

Thanks for the insight,

Today's train of thought came from 'if non-essential businesses can remain open, what's wrong with self-employed people going about their business if they are able to abide by the government guidelines and social distancing?'

But with all that's been said I won't be going out, I am such a stickler for the rules so if there's any shred of doubt I won't be doing it.

I guess I shouldn't even think about becoming a photojournalist either.
 
Last edited:
Notwithstanding the question asked, do bear in mind that the guidelines being referred to here appear to be for England. In Wales lockdown guidelines aren't just 'guidelines', they're law. Scotland has it's own legislation and I don't know how things apply up there.

According to DEFRA I do important work, so I can continue to work outdoors, and travel to and from work when necessary, providing I follow Public Health England Guidelines. However, even with that letter in my possession (and it was sent to me, I didn't request it!), I'm still keeping my visits outdoors to an absolute and necessary minimum and working from home as much as possible, and turning down any work I consider to be 'borderline or beyond' in terms of the guidelines and I'm not currently doing any work in Wales (and losing out financially because of this). I'm following the spirit of the guidelines as I don't want any deaths or illness on my conscience, and I want to help end the lockdown as soon as possible for the sake of other people too.

And no, I don't use my camera to take any non work-related photos while outdoors, or stop off or detour anywhere during my journey; it's straight there, do the job, then straight back home. The colleagues I've spoken to tell me they are working the same way. So do stop and think, and let good conscience be your guide. The landscape will still be there long after this is all over. (y)

PS I think some wise words and good suggestions there from @Mr Perceptive.
 
Last edited:
Notwithstanding the question asked, do bear in mind that the guidelines being referred to here appear to be for England. In Wales lockdown guidelines aren't just 'guidelines', they're law. Scotland has it's own legislation and I don't know how things apply up there.

According to DEFRA I do important work, so I can continue to work outdoors, and travel to and from work when necessary, providing I follow Public Health England Guidelines. However, even with that letter in my possession (and it was sent to me, I didn't request it!), I'm still keeping my visits outdoors to an absolute and necessary minimum and working from home as much as possible, and turning down any work I consider to be 'borderline or beyond' in terms of the guidelines and I'm not currently doing any work in Wales (and losing out financially because of this). I'm following the spirit of the guidelines as I don't want any deaths or illness on my conscience, and I want to help end the lockdown as soon as possible for the sake of other people too.

And no, I don't use my camera to take any non work-related photos while outdoors, or stop off or detour anywhere during my journey; it's straight there, do the job, then straight back home. The colleagues I've spoken to tell me they are working the same way. So do stop and think, and let good conscience be your guide. The landscape will still be there long after this is all over. (y)

PS I think some wise words and good suggestions there from @Mr Perceptive.
I work in the water industry so I’m pretty much the same as you. Ive got one of those ‘key worker’ letters too. We’ve cut back to essential activities only and are reviewing everything we would normally be delivering to see if we should be doing it or not. I have numerous projects that if COVID19 hadn’t come along I would have been delivering at present but they are now on hold until the situation changes (when that is no one knows). Like you I’m mainly working from home but still visit some sites (normally remote sites where I won’t meet anyone) but only if its deemed essential and there isn’t any way to do it remotely. Whilst I have a key worker letter I still have to justify why I’m out visiting a site so can’t just drive around.

It’s an awful time for so many people. I can see all sides of this. As a hobby photographer I’ve not even thought of taking the camera out with me. There is a blue bell wood on the outskirts of our village but I wont be attempting going there. I was thinking earlier this week I’d have been out in blue bell woods. I bet they look amazing this year with the lack of people destroying them by walking through them or have family portrait sessions amongst them.

It’s a hard one regarding whether a professional landscape photographer could be out taking photographs. Hobbyists definitely shouldn’t be out. The guidelines are woolly at best and are becoming even more grey when the government talks about ‘its ok to drive to the countryside as long the walk takes longer than the drive’. That said i think the rules are being applied differently across the UK. I saw twitter posts about Police setting up checks on the main roads into the Pembrokeshire to check why people are travelling. I’ve seen nothing like that around here in Bedfordshire.

I think we will start to see the ‘lockdown’ being reduced as we start a transition to new social distancing rules that allow us to get out but generally distance ourselves from others (I saw an article earlier about the potential for social group bubbles). Until that point comes I don’t think trips out for landscape photography in any form will be possible. Even then it will likely need to be local trips as travelling up and down the country isn’t the best idea (you only have to look at Snowdonia the other week where quite a lot of people had the same idea of visiting a remote location thinking no one else would be there!).
 
Last edited:
Despite what the guidelines from the government say, the law actually states that you can leave home for any reasonable excuse one of which is to work, there is no mention of essential work (the law also makes no mention of not travelling to take exercise).

Strictly speaking as a professional landscape photographer I would be within my rights to continue to work and I could easily go out at sunrise to a remote location for a couple of hours and return home without seeing a soul BUT that isn't in the spirit of what this lockdown is trying to achieve, this isn't the time to be looking for loopholes imo. That said if I don't qualify for the self employed grant then I may not have a choice!
 
That said if I don't qualify for the self employed grant then I may not have a choice!

I don't qualify, just because I had a PAYE job up until end of 2018 and the last tax year of 100% self-employment doesn't count, but I guess I can't justify it based on that.
 
Despite what the guidelines from the government say, the law actually states that you can leave home for any reasonable excuse one of which is to work, there is no mention of essential work (the law also makes no mention of not travelling to take exercise).

Strictly speaking as a professional landscape photographer I would be within my rights to continue to work and I could easily go out at sunrise to a remote location for a couple of hours and return home without seeing a soul BUT that isn't in the spirit of what this lockdown is trying to achieve, this isn't the time to be looking for loopholes imo. That said if I don't qualify for the self employed grant then I may not have a choice!
I think that’s the main issue with our ‘lockdown’. It isn’t a lockdown like other countries are experiencing. It’s a ‘lockdown lite’. Like you say part of it relies on the public taking it upon themselves to do what’s right. Seeing we are 2-3 weeks behind most countries I see us (hopefully) learning from what works in other countries as they manage their exit from lockdown.

With sunrise now being quite early it would be easy to get and back before most were even out of bed. For a pro I can understanding if they did that but us hobbyists should stay well away until things get better.

I kind of expect that it will be possible to get out in a month or two when restrictions are eased as we can’t stay like this forever.
 
Last edited:
Snip:

Despite what the guidelines from the government say, the law actually states that you can leave home for any reasonable excuse one of which is to work, there is no mention of essential work (the law also makes no mention of not travelling to take exercise).

Strictly speaking as a professional landscape photographer I would be within my rights to continue to work and I could easily go out at sunrise to a remote location for a couple of hours and return home without seeing a soul BUT that isn't in the spirit of what this lockdown is trying to achieve, this isn't the time to be looking for loopholes imo. That said if I don't qualify for the self employed grant then I may not have a choice!

I admire you for following the spirit of the guidelines, I think it's the best we can do at the moment. However, don't forget, in Wales the guidelines are law, as it's a different Government there and they've worded things differently. So it's not quite as clear cut is it might seem, despite us perhaps thinking UK will mean the whole of mainland Britain.

To be totally frank, I wish things in England were clearer, and I firmly believe that the overriding message should be: 'Every time you leave home, for whatever reason, then you risk contracting or spreading the virus'.

After all, this is real, it's not a game, we can't rewind and have another 'go' if we get it wrong! Please, everyone, protect yourselves, your loved ones, and even if you personally don't give a damn then please don't put others at risk from your actions. You only have to watch the news to hear of the death of medical staff (young and old) to see the consequences. Please never take your pleasure at anyone else's expense.

I think that’s the main issue with our ‘lockdown’. It isn’t a lockdown like other countries are experiencing. It’s a ‘lockdown lite’. Like you say part of it relies on the public taking it upon themselves to do what’s right. Seeing we are 2-3 weeks behind most countries I see us (hopefully) learning from what works in other countries as they manage their exit from lockdown.

With sunrise now being quite early it would be easy to get and back before most were even out of bed. For a pro I can understanding if they did that but us hobbyists should stay well away until things get better.

I kind of expect that it will be possible to get out in a month or two when restrictions are eased as we can’t stay like this forever.

I can't 'half like' this post (I agree with your general message), so thought I'd comment while I was replying to the one above. In answer to the 'What harm can it do if I go on my own, as I won't come into contact with others' type question. Eventually, you'll be in a vehicle that breaks down, or has a flat tire. So what then? With modern vehicles there's very little chance of you analysing or repairing an immobilising fault at the roadside. Do you know where the jack is to change a wheel? Will you be able to undo the wheel nuts with the often rather flimsy wheel brace provided? Does your vehicle actually have a spare wheel, as many don't these days?

So there you are, in an immobilised vehicle having to call a breakdown service. Do you have the virus and not yet know it? Does the person from the breakdown service carry the virus, or perhaps the people at the garage... if you can find a garage that will currently repair the vehicles of 'non essential workers'?

Worse still, a road traffic collision. Do those attending and sorting out the incident have the virus, and how close might they have to get to you if it's a serious collision?

Yes, it might never happen. But I imagine most gamblers work on a similar principle of thinking that the odds are stacked in their favour because they believe they know best. How many rich professional gamblers do you know? I've met a few long-established rich bookmakers in my time though!

As you say, let's see what the guidelines are in a month or so, and in the meantime, let's thank our lucky stars we've got the internet, with forums like this, YouTube for photography tips, ideas, and equipment tests and reviews, and TVs with umpteen channels, on demand viewing, etc.

I think we've probably forgotten just how fortunate we really are compared with previous generations. At least we're not being forced to fight a war in gas-ridden trenches, or having bombs rain down on us and our loved ones, destroying our homes and belongings, or not know what's actually causing the illness and deaths so we can avoid it. So come on everyone, let's straighten up and fly right, we can do this. (y)
 
Last edited:
Hobbyists definitely shouldn’t be out. The guidelines are woolly at best and are becoming even more grey when the government talks about ‘its ok to drive to the countryside as long the walk takes longer than the drive’.

Actually, the "Government" hasn't talked about it being "OK to drive to the countryside...", at least not that I am aware of.

The advice you quote is from the NPCC, based on advice from the CPS (a non-governmental organisation) to help police officers use their discretion in deciding what is and is not a "Reasonable excuse" to be away from home. So its advice from the Police to the Police on might be illegal and might not be illegal under the Regulations, it is not Government public health advice. Additionally, the Regulations on what can be legally enforced are different for Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and England and the NPCC advice is England only.

Government "guidance" on what is best practice to avoid spreading the virus hasn't changed, at least not as far as I can tell, and seems to be broadly the same across all four nations ie keep 2m apart, stay local, exercise for about an hour each day and make essential journeys only.

Maybe the guidance has now been changed for England to better match the advice being given to the English police and I've just missed it, but Scotland said it they would not be issuing this advice to Scottish Police, and Wales has recently amended their Regulations to increase the legally enforceable restrictions on movement in Wales, which were already "legally" more restricted than the rest of the UK.

As for the topic of the post, I would have thought that if you could "clearly" demonstrate that you earned your living from landscape (or indeed maybe wildlife) photography, this might well be a "reasonable excuse" to be out and about as you are allowed to travel for work, and the closures of business seem to relate to "premises" where social distancing isn't possible. But I'm not a lawyer, and as I'm retired, I haven't paid as much attention to the business restrictions as I have to the personal restriction.

I have a friend who works for a wildlife trust, and the official line is that they can carry on with fieldwork, which includes "travel" as it's perfectly possible to keep working and maintain social distancing as they working alone.
 
Worse still, a road traffic collision. Do those attending and sorting out the incident have the virus, and how close might they have to get to you if it's a serious collision?

A Chief Inspector from Cornwall and Devon recently pointed out that a serious traffic accident could bring 20 key workers close to any casualties, and if one of those casualties was then discovered to be infected, all 20 key workers would need to self isolate.

I agree that overall the risks from travel are low, but still a risk worth removing unless circumstance mean that travel cannot reasonably be avoided.
 
A Chief Inspector from Cornwall and Devon recently pointed out that a serious traffic accident could bring 20 key workers close to any casualties, and if one of those casualties was then discovered to be infected, all 20 key workers would need to self isolate.

I agree that overall the risks from travel are low, but still a risk worth removing unless circumstance mean that travel cannot reasonably be avoided.
I've just read that the police have fined a man who travelled to Bolton Abbey to take photos of the stars on Friday night.
 
Last edited:
I've just read that the police have fined a man who travelled to Bolton Abbey on Friday to take photos of the stars.
Yes that's the other, non-health related, risk of travelling somewhere without a reasonable excuse.
 
At the end of the day, if you are doing nothing illegal and your livelihood depends on it then you don't have many choices really, I would love to close the studio, not have the colleagues driving in every day, but whats the alternative ? make everyone redundant and when this is over they can find new jobs ? not much of an alternative really.
 
At the end of the day, if you are doing nothing illegal and your livelihood depends on it then you don't have many choices really, I would love to close the studio, not have the colleagues driving in every day, but whats the alternative ? make everyone redundant and when this is over they can find new jobs ? not much of an alternative really.

The alternative is to furlough staff. Literally the valid and business ideal alternative presented by the government. Operate on a skeleton of staff until this is over.

Easy to say, I know and may not be an option for you but that’s a valid alternative.
 
The alternative is to furlough staff. Literally the valid and business ideal alternative presented by the government. Operate on a skeleton of staff until this is over.

Easy to say, I know and may not be an option for you but that’s a valid alternative.

Not photography related, but we've been on the edge of furlough for a few weeks in the workshop. Most of the on site staff & office staff already have been but we've got just enough work coming in to keep us going.
 
Well I've given up on the professional landscape photography, so I've just been applying for .. err 'real?' jobs..

ill have to commute everyday, let's hope I don't get into a car accident (*sorry)
 
Last edited:
The alternative is to furlough staff. Literally the valid and business ideal alternative presented by the government. Operate on a skeleton of staff until this is over.

Easy to say, I know and may not be an option for you but that’s a valid alternative.

We are running a skeleton staff, a total shutdown was not an option :(
 
I plan to get the M10 Monochrom, and look at the nocti now and then.. but I do have the 80mm 1.9 on the Hasselblad X1D II and think I can't justify both can i..

Ha, I mentioned this 1.9 many moons ago & you have acquired, of course due @ my advice :) nah never. After you purchase nocti/mono, you of course will become bored in few months like always. Look for 200/1.8 with a D5 original old one (inexpensive).
This production result is like no other. Really!! Also seek miami fever @ flickr, he used this 1.8 moons ago, there is one with a lady & narrow country street, it appears composite but is not. Compare 1.8 / 2.0 is million miles. He/she is a student, you will admire I am certain!! He uses all sorts of crazy Leica junk which you admire.

Oh & stay indoors! Would you really wish to carry a tripod blah blah ????

:)
 
The advice from NPCC does say that driving to do exercise is likely to be reasonable if the exercise is substantially longer than the drive but I think it is worth considering

a) while the risk of having an accident in the car while driving to exercise is almost certainly very small. The risk of having an accident in the car when not driving is nil, and

b) if your exercise would take you to more rural areas the consequences of an accident there are potentially very large - trip over and break an ankle on a street and you'll probably see an ambulance and two paramedics who will get you to hospital quickly. Do the same on a hill and it could involve a team of six to ten, an ambulance on standby and possibly a helicopter.

Dave
 
Ha, I mentioned this 1.9 many moons ago & you have acquired, of course due @ my advice :) nah never. After you purchase nocti/mono, you of course will become bored in few months like always. Look for 200/1.8 with a D5 original old one (inexpensive).
This production result is like no other. Really!! Also seek miami fever @ flickr, he used this 1.8 moons ago, there is one with a lady & narrow country street, it appears composite but is not. Compare 1.8 / 2.0 is million miles. He/she is a student, you will admire I am certain!! He uses all sorts of crazy Leica junk which you admire.

Oh & stay indoors! Would you really wish to carry a tripod blah blah ????

:)

My M10M + lens (28 1.4?) money is sitting in the bank, but I can't spend it whilst I have no income.

I don't expect to be able to get back to being a self-employed photographer for schools for at least 12 months.
Even if schools reopen with 'social distancing' they won't be doing theatre, orchestra and sport for me to photograph.

So can't let it run down for nothing in return either.. will have to get a job.
 
Last edited:
My M10M + lens (28 1.4?) money is sitting in the bank, but I can't spend it whilst I have no income.

I don't expect to be able to get back to being a self-employed photographer for schools for at least 12 months.
Even if schools reopen with 'social distancing' they won't be doing theatre, orchestra and sport for me to photograph.

So can't let it run down for nothing in return either.. will have to get a job.

wouldn’t have thought you would have a problem, business must have been booming to warrant that amount of cash on single camera and lens. :)
 
wouldn’t have thought you would have a problem, business must have been booming to warrant that amount of cash on single camera and lens. :)

Outside of lockdown, business is good and growing but it’s not like that.

My outgoings are low, I don’t have children, I sell gear frequently and cameras are mostly where I want to spend my money. I’m just very free to do so.

Sold the Leica Q2 so that added a chunk to my savings just before lockdown.
 
I had a response from my local MP

If you have not done so already, you should explore any of the Government schemes for which you may be eligible.

In terms of your question, Government guidance is clear that leaving your home for work (if it is work that you cannot do from home) is permitted - so long as you follow all the social distancing guidelines possible. You can refer to this guidance if the police or anyone else asks you.

The only government scheme i may be eligible for is job seekers allowance, but they are bogged under so don't know when i will hear from them.
 
Highlights from the link provided
https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...avirus-outbreak-faqs-what-you-can-and-cant-do

4. Should I stay at home or go to work?
You may travel for work purposes, but only where you cannot work from home.

5. I’m not a critical worker and I can’t work from home. What should I do?
If you cannot work from home then you can still travel to work. This is consistent with the Chief Medical Officer’s advice.

6. How can I find out if my work is essential or not?
The government is not saying only people doing “essential” work can go to work. Anyone who cannot work from home can still go to work.
 
So how do you PROVE that you are a professional landscape photographer and NOT just a day tripper?

Carry a copy of your Companies House registration, SIC codes etc. Plus ID etc.

GC
 
So how do you PROVE that you are a professional landscape photographer and NOT just a day tripper?

By having commissioned work or some kind of track record, i.e. a long term, constant regular supplier you work with, such as a publication house who are supplying you regular work and regular money, even if its on spec and not commissioned. I wouldn't consider someone earning £20.00 every now and again a professional.

In no way does it sound like the OP is a professional landscape photographer. Number One question: What is the market or use of these images? You'd need a reason to be out.
 
By having commissioned work or some kind of track record, i.e. a long term, constant regular supplier you work with, such as a publication house who are supplying you regular work and regular money, even if its on spec and not commissioned. I wouldn't consider someone earning £20.00 every now and again a professional.

In no way does it sound like the OP is a professional landscape photographer. Number One question: What is the market or use of these images? You'd need a reason to be out.

I am a professional photographer with limited options, and see an opportunity to expand my business into landscape.

I'm not one for business plans, I just go with the flow - can't sell landscape images if I haven't got a worthwhile portfolio, I need to build that portfolio.
 
Carry a copy of your Companies House registration, SIC codes etc. Plus ID etc.

GC

Problem is, loads of people class themselves as a professional or 'freelance' photographer even if they've done a couple of low paid or not paid collaborations with businesses on instagram. They probably won't have that documentation so where do you draw the line?
 
Back
Top