Program + exposure comp vs. Manual?

Nawty

Nawty

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I'm shooting a wedding for some good friends (just because I happen to have the 'poshest' camera of all the friends, not been doing it long though).

I should be ok as I am good with crowds (i.e. don't mind bossing strangers and making an arse of myself) and have a half reasonable eye for a shot. I've even visited the venue and have some good ideas of where to shoot them. Also, if it's raining the ceilings are good for bouncing the flash.

Now, my only worry is that when we were there taking practice shots I often forgot to adjust the manual settings when taking the more casual shots (which is what they want - photo journalistic style). So, having had a play around I reckon my best bet is to use program and the histogram function and use the exposure compensation to shift the histogram around. This way I figure I can control the exposure a bit but am unlikely to cock it up completely, is there any reason why this would be a bad idea?
 
I would suggest that you use aperture priority rather than program as you do then have some control, as there may well be some shots that you require a shallow depth of field and others where you require a large depth of field, this will give you the opportunity to control this.

You can still use exposure compensation if you feel you require it for a shot although I would suggest using matrix metering too to give you the best chance of a correct exposure. Shoot in RAW and you will have the opportunity to fine tune the exposures when processsing and this should give you a reasonable chance of getting a useable image from all your shots.

Good luck!
 
Ah, aperture priority, of course :)

Thing is I only have a D60, 18-55 VR and 55-200 VR (also borrowed a SB800) so it's not like I'll have tons of DOF but I take the point.

This is one thing I've not had much practice in, I generally either put it on as large as possible or small as I can get away with without blurring the image. Is there a rule of thumb here e.g. group shots = F11, general = F8 and blurry = large as possible?
 
A wedding is no time to foul up. It is a multi-skilled job and I honestly think it's best left to a professional, regardless of your ability. Being non-relatives, they also don't have that extra hassle factor. It's a really tough job you're taking on!

It is also very pressured and there is no time to even think about what settings to use. It must be instinctive, based on experience. You need to have all the technicalities absolutely nailed before you get anywhere near the venue, and every shot already pre-planned.

In terms of equipment, there is no reason why your outfit shouldn't do the job, but the flash is essential. Take tons of memory and spare batteries. Shoot Raw for the best disaster recovery potential, and my choice would also be aperture-priority from a speed of operation/convenience point of view, but of course any mode will do exactly the same job. Personal preference. It would be prudent to borrow a spare camera.

How about getting a pro in just to do the formal stuff around the ceremony, to make sure the job is in the bag? That would keep costs down. You can also double up with candids etc, and then take the lead role at the reception.
 
The wedding is next Friday so chances are, even if they wanted to (which they don't) they couldn't get a pro...

I am actually looking forward to it as I'll get to go up on the roof of the manor house for some shots and even into the Lemur cage :lol: I've a list of all the formal shots and know where I've got to be when, I've got a helper too (in fact I've got two if necessary). The other thing in my favour is that the bar isn't opening until after the ceremony so I'll not be tempted to have a stiffener :D

Points taken though - I'll just leave it on aperture priority and concentrate on composition.

I've got a decent Canon Powershot which I suppose will do as a back up?
 
Nawty said:
Points taken though - I'll just leave it on aperture priority and concentrate on composition.

I've got a decent Canon Powershot which I suppose will do as a back up?
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You may want to read 'Understanding Exposure ~ Bryan Peterson' as 'I'll just leave it on aperture priority and concentrate on composition.' will probably end in disaster...........
 
I do understand exposure (well, the basics anyway) and have been doing loads of reading, my worry is that on the day I'll get flustered and forget to do something (especially when moving everyone outside = blown out pics). I suppose you could say I am consciously aware of what to do but as yet not unconsciously competent at doing it.

However, I do plan, for the dress shots, to make 100% certain that I don't lose the dress highlights - there's plenty of grass around so I was planning to use that to get the metering right. Fortunately the Groom is in grey rather than black so hopefully the camera won't struggle too badly with it.
 
Nawty said:
I do understand exposure (well, the basics anyway) and have been doing loads of reading, my worry is that on the day I'll get flustered and forget to do something (especially when moving everyone outside = blown out pics). I suppose you could say I am consciously aware of what to do but as yet not unconsciously competent at doing it.

However, I do plan, for the dress shots, to make 100% certain that I don't lose the dress highlights - there's plenty of grass around so I was planning to use that to get the metering right. Fortunately the Groom is in grey rather than black so hopefully the camera won't struggle too badly with it.
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If you use AP you will still need to manually adjust the aperture to get the desired DOF (how much of the shot is in focus) and you will also need to check the shutter speed doesn't drop below the minimum speed you can hand hold for sharp shots - and if it dose you'll need to adjust the ISO or aperture to get it back in range.
 
Nawty said:
I do understand exposure (well, the basics anyway) and have been doing loads of reading, my worry is that on the day I'll get flustered and forget to do something (especially when moving everyone outside = blown out pics). I suppose you could say I am consciously aware of what to do but as yet not unconsciously competent at doing it.

However, I do plan, for the dress shots, to make 100% certain that I don't lose the dress highlights - there's plenty of grass around so I was planning to use that to get the metering right. Fortunately the Groom is in grey rather than black so hopefully the camera won't struggle too badly with it.
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Then all things considered, I guess you're as ready as you can be. On the exposure front, bone up on the incident light palm of your hand trick * - it's a very quick and easy check, then keep an eye on the histogram. VR and flash should keep you out of shake problems, but keep your shutter speed as high as you reasonably can unless people are standing stock still. Good luck!

* I'll tell you how if you're unsure ;)
 
I've shot a few weddings and by far my favoured exposure mode is manual. This works superbly well when the lighting conditions are constant but is a bit of a pain in the proverbial when the light is always changing (partly cloudy day).

It sounds like you know the pros and cons of the options but you are worried that you will forget to make the required adjustments if you shoot manual. The thing is, if you are remembering to check your histogram and making EC changes then is that any easier than shooting manual and making adjustments only when the light changes?

"P" (for Professional :) ) mode will certainly get you something useable, most of the time, and if you shoot raw you should have some wiggle room to sort things out if the exposures go a bit wonky. You wouldn't be the first photographer to shoot a wedding in "P" mode and you won't be the last. You may lose some creativity in DOF control but if you walk away with a higher keeper rate than that is probably more important.

I think the most important thing is to shoot however you feel most comfortable. In constant lighting I'd use manual, but if the light was varying all the time I'd probably use Av mode, just to retain some creative control. If you shoot with Canon gear and intend to use flash then I hope you are familiar with the quirks of the Canon flash system when using different exposure modes. It can easily catch people out.
 
fabs said:
I'm intrigued, what's the incident light palm of your hand trick?
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Hopefully you are familiar with the technique of metering off a grey card with a meter reading of 0 in order to set a correct exposure for the incident light levels (based on metering the reflected light from a grey card of known reflectivity).

You can do exactly the same thing by metering from your own palm. The only difference is that your palm is brighter (more reflective) than a grey card so you don't set the exposure for a meter reading of 0. Instead you set the exposure to a meter reading of + 1 1/3. This may vary slightly between individuals but + 1 1/3 is pretty close for most people. You use your palm because it does not tan and so remains a constant reference all year round.

Of course, benefits of your own palm are that you always have it with you, it costs nothing and it's pretty waterproof and hard to damage.

If you want to calibrate your own camera to your own palm then choose a bright, sunny day with the sun high in the sky. In these conditions you can set a manual exposure to comply with the "Sunny 16 Rule". e.g. f/16, 100 ISO, 1/100. That will give you a correct/standard exposure for conditions of bright sunshine (no cloud, no haze). Now hold your palm up, facing the sun, and meter off your palm, and only your palm. Spot or partial metering will help here. Make sure your lens does not cast a shadow over your palm. Now look at the meter reading. I'm guessing it will be at +1 1/3 give or take 1/3 stop. Whatever the reading is, that will be your target to aim for when setting a manual exposure in the future. It won't have to be bright sunshine - any lighting will do. You're simply using your palm as a substitute for a grey card and setting the exposure to + 1.x from your palm instead of +0 from a grey card.

A sheet of white A4 set to around +2 or +2 1/3 would also work pretty well and would still leave a whole stop of dynamic range before starting to clip highlights, perhaps nearer 2 stops if you shoot raw and factor in highlight recovery. Again, you can calibrate your sheet of A4, just like your palm, by metering it under Sunny 16 conditions with a standard Sunny 16 exposure.
 
I had heard of the palm trick and also that grass can be a pretty good substitute for a grey card too?

The only reason I mentioned using exposure comp is that when trying it out at the venue, my D60 seemed to always underexpose (via the histogram and I've just read about "exposing to the right") which seems a little odd given I thought they (or at least the D40) was meant to overexpose a little...

Now, the one situation where I think manual may really be required is when shooting indoors and there are big windows in the background with (potentially) a white cloud sky outside. Any tips? or is it simply don't :lol:
 
It might be worth reading this thread....

http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=115623

It started as a discussion about modes for shooting birds but then evolved into a discussion on the benefits of manual exposure and ways to set it.

Indoors, with backlight from windows, and sometimes not, is a perfect time to use manual exposure. Set your exposure for the ambient conditions indoors and stuff what's happening outside (relatively speaking). If you want to balance the lighting better between outdoors and in then that is when you need to wheel out the flash. I'd still suggest manual exposure for the ambient and then let the flash fill in the gaps indoors on auto.

There is a great site here for flash photography tips....

http://www.planetneil.com/ (See the menu on right hand side once you've entered the site)
 
Nawty said:
I had heard of the palm trick and also that grass can be a pretty good substitute for a grey card too?

The only reason I mentioned using exposure comp is that when trying it out at the venue, my D60 seemed to always underexpose (via the histogram and I've just read about "exposing to the right") which seems a little odd given I thought they (or at least the D40) was meant to overexpose a little...

Now, the one situation where I think manual may really be required is when shooting indoors and there are big windows in the background with (potentially) a white cloud sky outside. Any tips? or is it simply don't :lol:
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Remember if your shooting raw the histogram shows information for in camera jpg conversion not the actual raw file you will be working with, so the camera settings may give a misleading histogram.
 
Have you checked that you going to be ok using flash during the ceremony? Alot of places won't let you and if thats the case you may need something a little faster than your current setup. Personally I couldn't show up on the day without at least one fast prime for low light and arty shallow DOF shots, get yourself a nifty fifty.
 
a1ex2001 said:
Have you checked that you going to be ok using flash during the ceremony? Alot of places won't let you and if thats the case you may need something a little faster than your current setup. Personally I couldn't show up on the day without at least one fast prime for low light and arty shallow DOF shots, get yourself a nifty fifty.
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Or if you don't fancy the manual focus the new Nikon 35mm seems to be a pretty decent bet...
 
Flash is allowed for all except when the registrar is reading the legal bit :)

I know what you mean about having a fast prime but needing an AF-S lens, price is somewhat prohibative. I've been fussing over what to do and it almost seems worth getting a D50 or even D80 just so I can get the cheaper lenses...

edit: although that new 35mm is 'only' £200 and I have just recieved a load of back pay from a recent promotion AND saved £200 from borrowing an flash. Mmmm...
 
Nawty said:
Flash is allowed for all except when the registrar is reading the legal bit :)

I know what you mean about having a fast prime but needing an AF-S lens, price is somewhat prohibative. I've been fussing over what to do and it almost seems worth getting a D50 or even D80 just so I can get the cheaper lenses...

edit: although that new 35mm is 'only' £200 and I have just recieved a load of back pay from a recent promotion AND saved £200 from borrowing an flash. Mmmm...
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You could also look in to renting a lens or two for the day if you wanted something else to think about. :)
 
I'm not aware of anywhere local that hires out lenses and the cost of postage for the online places seems rather a waste, I'd rather just buy something.

And on that note, my local LCE has those 35mm Nikon's in stock so I'll pop down later and get one :)
 
I shoot in AV, I also exposure bracket except when I'm inside (it annoys the Registrars!), and I rarely use flash during the ceremony as most Registrars won't allow it (well done if you've got one that does!). For inside and dark I use the fastest lenses I have (50mm 1.4 and 100m f2) and up the ISO if necessary, killing the nolise with nosie ninja afterwards

good luck though!
 
Yes, I've seen that one but agree the prices are very good (especially compared to som eothers) but by the time you've added £20 postage I'd rather just go and buy something. Especially as something like I'll need for this job is something I expect to end up buying eventually anyway :)
 
fabs said:
I'm intrigued, what's the incident light palm of your hand trick?
Click to expand...

tdodd has beaten me to it with a very good explanation :) The stuff on the link he gave is also very sound reading.

I use the palm trick thing a lot, even when I'm not shooting in manual with an incident light reading. Basically it's just a very good instant check that things are okay when using an auto mode in changeable light. Just put your palm up to the lens as Tim describes, and you should immediately see your exposure changing by a stop and a bit. Say you're in Av with f/5.6 at 1/125sec, then reading off your palm the shutter speed should rise to 1/250sec or 1/300sec. If it doesn't, then I need to double check via the histogram etc that everything is still in order. It's just a bit of extra security :)
 
Well, I bought the 35mm AF-S. It's startling how much is OOF when you use a F1.8 aperture!

Does this change with distance? or will I need to actually dial it down a bit?
 
Nawty said:
Now, the one situation where I think manual may really be required is when shooting indoors and there are big windows in the background with (potentially) a white cloud sky outside. Any tips? or is it simply don't :lol:
Click to expand...

The D60 has active D lighting for this very reason. Though it does significantly slow down the save rate as the camera processes the image. Without looking at the manual, I'm not sure if you can still shoot in RAW as well. When I tested it, it seemed to do a good job on JPEG :thumbs:
 
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