Program Mode

[Marc]

In another thread, the OP mentioned about using Program Mode. Not wishing to hijack the thread, I thought I'd start a new thread to ask a question.

I have never used P mode but, on having a play, it seems to allow you to adjust either the aperture or the shutter speed, with the camera adjusting one or the other as required. Is this vastly different to Aperture Priority or Shutter Priority? It sort of seems to utilise both in one go.

 

[jgs001]

As far as I could tell Marc, when I was using it after getting the 450d, it seemed to me the camera will always work out the settings it thinks you need for a handheld shot. The reason I say that, after adjusting the settings and taking a shot, the camera put them back to the original settings for the next one, so to get to the settings I thought I wanted, I had to adjust again.

 

[Marc]

So, for example, if you set it to f4 and took the shot, it would then automatically reset the aperture to another value?

 

[Nawty]

Smart Program or whatever it's called will typically give you a number of different options of how to shoot the shot, which you can select between.

 

[jgs001]

As far as I could tell yeah. If the camera decided f8 1/125, you could adjust it to f4 etc, but after taking the shot would reset to f8 1/125. P mode now only gets used if someone else in the family is using the camera.

 

[Marc]

Smart Program or whatever it's called will typically give you a number of different options of how to shoot the shot, which you can select between.

I'm thinking Smart program isn't the same as program mode in this instance. As I said, it just seems to give you the option to adjust the shutter speed OR the aperture, with everything else manually adjustable.

 

[Marc]

As far as I could tell yeah. If the camera decided f8 1/125, you could adjust it to f4 etc, but after taking the shot would reset to f8 1/125. P mode now only gets used if someone else in the family is using the camera.

Interesting, as I just had another play and didn't find this to be the case. It would just keep the last aperture/shutter speed I selected. I think you should all go out and buy Sonys!

 

[jgs001]

There not as supported for astrophotographic use as the Canons...

 

[boyfalldown]

its sort of the same (but that makes no sense). It doesn't give you the options to adjust them both independently, but forces a 'correct exposure setting. So you could have s=1/50 and a=2.8 and force it (using smart program) to s=1/40 and a=3.2. I think the key is you can't control A and S independently as you would in manual or one of the priority modes. The camera still picks both settings to give a correct exposure.

The D700 doesn't come out of smart program to program after every shot

Cheers

Hugh

 

[Marc]

its sort of the same (but that makes no sense). It doesn't give you the options to adjust them both independently, but forces a 'correct exposure setting. So you could have s=1/50 and a=2.8 and force it (using smart program) to s=1/40 and a=3.2. I think the key is you can't control A and S independently as you would in manual or one of the priority modes. The camera still picks both settings to give a correct exposure.

The D700 doesn't come out of smart program to program after every shot

Cheers

Hugh

Not really sure I understand you there. You say that they can be controlled independently as in the priority modes, but you can't control them independently in priority modes. Whichever you set, the camera sets the other accordingly.

eg,

Program Mode

Adjust aperture to f2.8, camera sets shutter speed of 1/500
Adjust shutter speed to 1/500, camera sets aperture to f2.8

Aperture priority

Adjust aperture to f2.8, camera sets shutter speed of 1/500

Shutter priority

Adjust shutter speed to 1/500, camera sets aperture to f2.8

I suppose I'm asking this because I've seen people vilified for using P by people who advocate using A (Av) or S (Tv) and I can't understand why. :shrug:

 

[jgs001]

I think it's just harder to get creative (not that I'm any good at that in any mode ) with P mode than it is with the Priority modes or Manual. Having said that I was getting reasonable results from it, and it allows greater control over the camera than Auto.

 

[boyfalldown]

sorry I didn't explain very well. In smart program all you are doing is saying to the camera pick another valid exposure combination. You're not control A or S

 

[Marc]

I think it's just harder to get creative (not that I'm any good at that in any mode ) with P mode than it is with the Priority modes or Manual. Having said that I was getting reasonable results from it, and it allows greater control over the camera than Auto.

All fair comment John. I shoot mostly in Manual and have no plans to use Program, just thought I'd pose the question.

 

[Marc]

sorry I didn't explain very well. In smart program all you are doing is saying to the camera pick another valid exposure combination. You're not control A or S

Think the wires may be getting crossed as I don't know what Smart Program is. I only know the program mode which allows you to either adjust the shutter speed or aperture. Am I right in thinking that Smart Program is like Auto but gives you the option to override the camera's settings? Don't think my camera has anything like that and not sure I'd really find a use for it.

 

[jgs001]

it's a good question. I used it to allow shooting in raw and stop the damn flash popping up every third shot cos the camera decided it needed it for Auto mode .

 

[Suvv]

S Mode - The Shutter Speed remains fixed.
You set the shutter speed. It will not change if you focus on a different scene or if the lighting changes, the aperture will change to get the right exposure.

A Mode - The Aperture remains fixed.
You set the aperture size. It will not change if you focus on a different scene or if the lighting changes, the shutter speed will change to get the right exposure.

P Mode - Shutter Speed and/or Aperture size can vary.
You select a combination of aperture size and shutter speed to get the right exposure. Either, or both may change as you focus on a different scene or if the lighting changes.

 

[Marc]

S Mode - The Shutter Speed remains fixed.
You set the shutter speed. It will not change if you focus on a different scene or if the lighting changes, the aperture will change to get the right exposure.

A Mode - The Aperture remains fixed.
You set the aperture size. It will not change if you focus on a different scene or if the lighting changes, the shutter speed will change to get the right exposure.

P Mode - Shutter Speed and/or Aperture size can vary.
You select a combination of aperture size and shutter speed to get the right exposure. Either, or both may change as you focus on a different scene or if the lighting changes.

Thank you, but I already know what A and S do. Not sure of your definition of P though. The shutter speed and aperture do not change unless you change one of them. Then the other changes to achieve the correct exposure. Neither will change just because you focus on another subject. :shrug:

 

[jgs001]

Marc, I think they may well do. If you're shooting Aperture mode, and you focus on something light, the camera will increase the shutter speed, and for something dark reduce the shutter speed. I'm pretty sure in P mode, the camera will select what it thinks is the correct combination...

From my manual

Press...... Focus
The exposure setting (shutter and aperture) set automagically is displayed in the viewfinder.

It even says, you can shift the program with the control dial, and take the shot, the shift will reset after the shot is taken.

Maybe I should have read all the manual in more detail before I started playing with the camera

 

[Suvv]

Thank you, but I already know what A and S do. Not sure of your definition of P though. The shutter speed and aperture do not change unless you change one of them. Then the other changes to achieve the correct exposure. Neither will change just because you focus on another subject. :shrug:

They will change if the light level is different. One, or both will have to change to keep the exposure correct.
If when you focus on something else the meter receives more, or less, light then one, or both, will change.
Try it, indoors you can focus on something inside and then focus on a window.
Outdoors just move the camera around while keeping an eye on the Aperture & Speed.
In fact they will even change as you zoom in or out, if the lighting is different

 

[Marc]

Marc, I think they may well do. If you're shooting Aperture mode, and you focus on something light, the camera will increase the shutter speed, and for something dark reduce the shutter speed. I'm pretty sure in P mode, the camera will select what it thinks is the correct combination...

From my manual

Press...... Focus
The exposure setting (shutter and aperture) set automagically is displayed in the viewfinder.

It even says, you can shift the program with the control dial, and take the shot, the shift will reset after the shot is taken.

Maybe I should have read all the manual in more detail before I started playing with the camera

I see what you are saying John. I think it must work differently in differnt cameras. I've just tested it out (I'm bore and I like to fiddle! ) and it seems to treat it as Aperture priority if the last adjustment I made was to the aperture and vice versa with the shutter speed. It didn't deviate from the settings I put it. Gosh I'm confusing myself now, but what I mean is it didn't change the whole combination based on the light, it just adjusted what I hadn't set, if that makes sense. :bonk:

 

[Marc]

They will change if the light level is different. One, or both will have to change to keep the exposure correct.
If when you focus on something else the meter receives more, or less, light then one, or both, will change.
Try it, indoors you can focus on something inside and then focus on a window.
Outdoors just move the camera around while keeping an eye on the Aperture & Speed.
In fact they will even change as you zoom in or out, if the lighting is different

Yes, I know that one will change. My point is that, in P mode, only the value that you don't set will change, exactly the same as in A or S mode. The camera won't change the aperture and shutter speed at the same time.

 

[jgs001]

Gotta love standardisation ... on the 450d I can't adjust them independently in P mode, the control dial changes both in tandem. I wonder how Nikon and the others have implemented it, and whether even camera at different levels from the same manufacturer are done differently

 

[Marc]

Gotta love standardisation ... on the 450d I can't adjust them independently in P mode, the control dial changes both in tandem. I wonder how Nikon and the others have implemented it, and whether even camera at different levels from the same manufacturer are done differently

OK, more wires crossed I think (Ever wish you handn't started something? ). Yes on mine, if you change the aperture the shutter speed will automatically change as appropriate and the same with shutter speed. What I don't get is how this is different from the priory modes, apart from being able to use both without changing the dial.

 

[Suvv]

Yes, I know that one will change. My point is that, in P mode, only the value that you don't set will change, exactly the same as in A or S mode. The camera won't change the aperture and shutter speed at the same time.

Try focusing on the sky, my camera normally changes the shutter speed in P mode but when the lighting changes a lot then the aperture changes as well.

That is the problem with P mode, you are not sure what it is going to do.

 

[Marc]

Try focusing on the sky, my camera normally changes the shutter speed in P mode but when the lighting changes a lot then the aperture changes as well.

That is the problem with P mode, you are not sure what it is going to do.

Hmmmm. Did that. I set the aperture, pointed it at the ground and then the sky, it adjusted the shutter speed. I then set the shutter speed, pointed it at the ground and then the sky, it adjusted the aperture. This is exactly what I get in aperture/shutter priority modes.

 

[Suvv]

Hmmmm. Did that. I set the aperture, pointed it at the ground and then the sky, it adjusted the shutter speed. I then set the shutter speed, pointed it at the ground and then the sky, it adjusted the aperture. This is exactly what I get in aperture/shutter priority modes.

Just had a quick look at your camera manual. You have Program shift which allows you to select either shutter or aperture and the other one adjusts automatically, I think

I now agree with you - what is the difference

Apologies for leading you astray, first time I have heard of this.
Good Luck

 

[Marc]

Just had a quick look at your camera manual. You have Program shift which allows you to select either shutter or aperture and the other one adjusts automatically, I think

I now agree with you - what is the difference

Apologies for leading you astray, first time I have heard of this.
Good Luck

No need for apologies. I had a feeling that the function was different depending on the model of camera. The thing that prompted the question was past threads where someone posted that "The official wedding tog was shooting in P mode" (Outrage Outrage) and then went on to say how they would use aperture priority. Just goes to show that you cannot assume anything in this game.

BTW yes, it shows as Program Shift in the manual, but just shows as "P" on the dial, which probably added to the confusion. :bonk:

 

[RKC]

well this is becoming a difficult thread to follow

if i set P mode 5.6 you get shutter speed xxxx
if i set AV mode 5.6 i get same shutter speed

so i think what marc is asking is what is the point of P mode, after all in this mode you can concentrate on AV value and get same reult as setting it in AV mode so what is the point of P mode

logically folows the only way to get control of the camera in reality is M mode

i just previewed this and

 

[Marc]

well this is becoming a difficult thread to follow

if i set P mode 5.6 you get shutter speed xxxx
if i set AV mode 5.6 i get same shutter speed

so i think what mark is asking is what is the point of P mode, after all in this mode you can concentrate on AV value and get same reult as setting it in AV mode so what is the point of P mode

logically folows the only way to get control of the camera in reality is M mode

i just previewed this and

Exactly my point. The only benefit I can see is the ability to switch between Aperture and Shutter priorities easily by just using the command wheels (Not having to take your eye away from the viewfinder).

 

[DavidMarq]

The way I see P mode on a 450d is that it is the same as Auto mode with respect to shutter and aperture, but allows you to change all the other features that Auto mode would normally prevent you from changing, such as ISO, Colour Space, AF Mode, Metering Mode, etc.

P mode also lets you shift the selected Aperture/Shutter speed combination up or down, but not when you are using flash.

Av, Tv and M seem to be better choices if you want control over Aperture, Shutter or both.

 

[tdodd]

I think the confusion is arising here because of all this talk of setting apertures and/or shutter speeds. The primary purpose of P mode, as opposed to Av and Tv, is for the camera to set both of them for you. If you want a specific aperture then you use Av mode. If you want a specific shutter speed then you use Tv mode. If you don't much care then you use P mode and avoid the need to think about it at all.

Now, when you are in P mode, with the Canon system you do have the option to temporarily nudge the shutter speed up or down (program shift) and the camera will immediately compensate by adjusting the aperture to suit. In actual fact you are adjusting both shutter speed and aperture at the same time. It is your choice whether to view the adjustment as a change to aperture with the shutter speed following suit, or vice versa. It makes not a scrap of difference to the camera's operation. Just think of the change in whatever way suits your mind the best.

In P mode you also have the option to dial in EC, just as you would when shooting Av or Tv.

Another way to look at P mode is like Auto (Green Square) on steroids. The camera still takes care of the whole exposure malarky for you, but for the Canon system it opens up many other features that are not available on full auto. e.g. extra custom functions are enabled; you can shoot to raw; you have more options for ISO range; you can select your own focus point; you have control over whether or not the flash fires; you choose your metering pattern etc..

 

[Suvv]

I think the confusion is due to the fact that on the Sony A700 you appear to be able to fix either the shutter or aperture in P mode.
On my Nikon, P mode can change either aperture or speed as I move the camera to view different things, on the Sony it appears that you can fix, say the shutter, and it acts the same as S (or Tv) mode.

 

[Marc]

I think the confusion is due to the fact that on the Sony A700 you appear to be able to fix either the shutter or aperture in P mode.
On my Nikon, P mode can change either aperture or speed as I move the camera to view different things, on the Sony it appears that you can fix, say the shutter, and it acts the same as S (or Tv) mode.

Spot on!

 

[HoppyUK]

In another thread, the OP mentioned about using Program Mode. Not wishing to hijack the thread, I thought I'd start a new thread to ask a question.

I have never used P mode but, on having a play, it seems to allow you to adjust either the aperture or the shutter speed, with the camera adjusting one or the other as required. Is this vastly different to Aperture Priority or Shutter Priority? It sort of seems to utilise both in one go.

No, not really any different.

There is only ever one 'correct' exposure, and various combinations of shutter speed, aperture and ISO available to achieve it. P, Av and Tv are just different ways of arriving at the right result, but you can get to any settings you like with which ever mode suits you (on my Canon 40D).

With P, the benefit is the camera will always get you to a usable combination of settings straight off. With either Av or Tv, it is quite possible to be ouside the range of apertures available, or the range of practical shutter speeds without some twiddling.

And on P, if you don't like what the camera has chosen, then moving the control wheel one way adjusts the shutter speed (and the aperture to match) and moving it the other way adjusts the aperture. So you can still have the same control of depth of field or movement as with either of the other modes.

The big difference seems to me (with Canon) is that on P, if you shift either the shutter speed or aperture to suit, the camera will only hold these settings for a few seconds if you don't keep a half-press on the shutter release. After that, it will revert to where it started and you have to readjust.

In other words, if you are only taking one shot, or a fairly rapid sequence, then P is really easy, and versatile. But if you're shooting over a longer period and don't want to hold on to the shutter release all the time, then making your settings on Av or Tv will save constant readjustments.