Pros don't use crop bodies

jamiebonline

jamiebonline

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Jamie
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Hi everyone,

So I thought the title would get attention. I want to raise a point about what it is to be a pro in relation to gear. I am starting out professionally. I have done a few paid gigs. Couples shoots mostly. The clients were pleased but since I don't have 'pro gear' I feel like I must keep my price low. I mean, if I shoot with a D7000 and a 50mm 1.8, to what extent am I not professional? How relevant is it?

I don't want to get hung up on this but it does seem that investing large amounts of money must be the next step. I live in a country now that pays very low salaries compared to Western Europe and photographers are only paid 1/4 what they can be at home but electronics cost the same! :( It means I am forced to work with cheaper gear. I can't afford an fx camera without some considerable saving. The 70-200 2.8 seems quite standard for portraits but the new versions of this lens even from the less expensive Sigma or Tamron is still so expensive.

What are your thoughts?
Maybe you are a very experienced pro who shoots a lot of APSC or other smaller sensors and maybe you also favour primes. How is your work effected by your wallet? To what extent does what gear you have contribute to how much you charge?
 
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If you're delivering results that clients are happy to pay for, they really don't care about the size of your sensor.

You should be charging rates according to your market regardless of the kit you use. I've shot portraits/weddings/events on crop, full frame and even film and nobody has ever rejected a shot on the basis that my sensor was the wrong size :0)
 
If the investment you pay out will result in more and better paid jobs then it is worth it.. if not then don't.. I have decent gear because I work indoor lighting or low lights.. If I was covering daytime good light jobs I would downgrade my gear and put some money in the bank.... equipment is about what you need to do the job.. nothing else.
 
The only reason to buy new gear is if it is going to alloy you to advance and do something you cant now, if you look at if from a business perspective that's different again and it has to justify its cost with its return. However most of that could come down to choice of lenses and kit rather than the actual choice of sensor.

ie:

Starting architecture and indoor estate agents work - you would need a wide angle lens - either crop or fx
Going into weddings - you would need a good overall lens like a 24-70 or 24-105 or 17-55 crop or fx
Portrait work - probably 85-135 prime range , may limit you a little more as there tends to be more choice with fx

the choice of moving to fx from crop is also budget dependant , you could jump to a D700 which will be better quality than your D7000 with less knobs and whistles better high iso by a mile, but do you need that

Try and get the most out of what you have then move on - that way you should always improve.
 
Loved the title :D

And I do actually shoot on DX cameras

My first fully Pro spec camera was the 'crop' sensor D2Xs I paid £3,500 for (well actually a little over £4,000 as it was on finance at the time), and I now shoot on two cheap D7000 cameras which are FAR BETTER than that Pro one was from a few years ago

As the others have said all that really matters is the end results. Sure the D7000 can't handle above 3200 ISO well at all, but in the last few years of using them I've only gone that high on maybe 5-6 Weddings, and then after a spell in Lightroom they've been perfectly acceptable. Ok so noisier than a D750 would be at 12,800 ISO but its not worth the £3,000 jump to FX it'd cost to swap

If I was starting out I'd be taking a long hard look at both FX and the best mirrorless too !!! Sensor size has sweet FA to do with it, its the other benefits and great glass that matters :)

Dave
 
Given that the definition of a Pro is someone that makes their living from photography, I would have thought that the question a Pro should ask when buying equipment, is "Will it help me make more money?" If the answer is no, then why spend your hard earned profit on equipment.
 
since I don't have 'pro gear' I feel like I must keep my price low
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Your prices should be guided by the quality of your work. Your customers do not care what camera you use there worry is about the quality of your photographs.
 
The majority of people just see "big camera" = SLR, end of. I get accused of being a photographer with my 650d and kit lens. Little do they realise I'm mostly clueless!
 
A pro will use whatever 'tool' does a good enough job.

There are applications where a full frame camera is arguably better but this can be somewhat offset by the person using it.
 
I'm taking photography more seriously than I ever have, and I've just gone semi pro...

...I've recently sold my FF Nikon D750 and moved to Fuji X, crop AND mirrorless, the horror!
 
You get the gear you need to do the work you're paid to do.

The various gear you use is working capital, nothing more and nothing less. It has to pay for itself.

It's nice to have the shiniest, newest, gear but most of the people you will work for don't know and don't care what you have. The end products of what you do are the pictures you produce (and the money in than bank).
 
Pros don't use crop bodies

What a load of Tosh
 
It's you are the 'professional', not the kit you use.

Definition; "engaged in a specified activity as one's main paid occupation rather than as an amateur".

Many people misuse or misunderstand the term.
 
Don't get bogged down with body worry, Glass Glass Glass all the way, do a google search on some of the weddings shot with a Nikon D50, I've seen some great work, of course if you can afford it get it, but it won't make any difference to the skill you get from practice and technique.
 
Canon 7D and now its successor the 7D II is geared towards the 'Pro' sports or wildlife photographer.

Also, come to think of it, the latest and greatest is not the only capable fx system out there - the 5D classic can be purchased for £300 or thereabouts. Together with the classic 50/85mm 1.8 lenses it makes a serious system in good light.

But, having said all that, it's how you use the camera that counts at the end of the day.
 
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The most important bit of kit required for getting good photographs is the NOGGIN (your brain).

Most customers wont even notice if the photo is not pin sharp( thankfully) as long as they look great in the photo.


One thing that might seem like an indulgence is a back up body/lens /flash/ memory card and spare batteries. I think backups are essential if you are being paid to turn up and take photos. Your backup can be 2nd hand if it works OK.

I have the minimum kit to cover every situation I am likely to encounter.
(OK that is 4 bodies[2 are crop bodies], 4 lenses[16-35/24-70x2/70-300], 7 flash guns and 5 transmitters, 6 flash battery packs, 2 brollies, 4 tripods[2 giants and 2 that can stand on cluttered table tops], 10 batteries[though 6 would do], 4x 64GB cards 5x15GB cards, tripod & a monopod. This is for two photographers on the job and i have not bought major kit for 2 years and I am going to resist getting the 5DRSx2)--Oh and two good lens cloths.
 
redsnappa said:
Your prices should be guided by the quality of your work. Your customers do not care what camera you use there worry is about the quality of your photographs.
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The quality of your work is only a tiny part of it you should be charging as much as the customer is willing to pay if your work is rubbish and they still pay it doesn't matter!
 
DG Phototraining said:
Loved the title :D

And I do actually shoot on DX cameras

My first fully Pro spec camera was the 'crop' sensor D2Xs I paid £3,500 for (well actually a little over £4,000 as it was on finance at the time), and I now shoot on two cheap D7000 cameras which are FAR BETTER than that Pro one was from a few years ago

As the others have said all that really matters is the end results. Sure the D7000 can't handle above 3200 ISO well at all, but in the last few years of using them I've only gone that high on maybe 5-6 Weddings, and then after a spell in Lightroom they've been perfectly acceptable. Ok so noisier than a D750 would be at 12,800 ISO but its not worth the £3,000 jump to FX it'd cost to swap

If I was starting out I'd be taking a long hard look at both FX and the best mirrorless too !!! Sensor size has sweet FA to do with it, its the other benefits and great glass that matters :)

Dave
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That depends if you need clean high ISO?

I added an FF body to my kit for indoor show jumping (essential for clean images in notoriously dark arenas and getting the higher shutter speeds at iso 6400 and above) and weddings. My crop bodies were hindering me in these areas and going FF was a breath of fresh air.

It boils down to what you want / need to achieve.

Footnote - I'm not a pro however!
 
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I have a 7D does that make me a pro ??
I have several L Lenses
Pro footballers use the same balls as my sons did at school
If I buy the same tennis racket as Andy Murray

Does it hell as like. Like many have stated its the person behind the camera that does the job.
 
FlyingShrapnel said:
Professional burger flippers*, not quite chefs ;)
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So....how good does your food have to be before you can count yourself a professional?

I've heard a couple of genres referred to as "the McDonalds of photography" but they still have pros working in them. But labels are never that interesting anyway ;)
 
Phil V said:
Beginners think it's all about cameras
Enthusiast think it's all about lenses
Photographers know it's all about light


When it comes to business:
It's all about matching product price and market (and has nothing much to do with gear)
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Which lenses do you recommend Phil? And what settings would you use?
 
JohnX said:
It's you are the 'professional', not the kit you use.

Definition; "engaged in a specified activity as one's main paid occupation rather than as an amateur".

Many people misuse or misunderstand the term.
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JonathanRyan said:
So....how good does your food have to be before you can count yourself a professional?

I've heard a couple of genres referred to as "the McDonalds of photography" but they still have pros working in them. But labels are never that interesting anyway ;)
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I wasnt knocking (or even commenting on) the quality of food produced by McDonalds, rather I was sticking to the definition of professionals given by JohnX in the sense that they should be titled professional burger flippers are because they specifically flip burgers, instead chefs do "all" the cooking there is out there. just a light hearted comment, never mind... :p
 
FlyingShrapnel said:
I wasnt knocking (or even commenting on) the quality of food produced by McDonalds, rather I was sticking to the definition of professionals given by JohnX in the sense that they should be titled professional burger flippers are because they specifically flip burgers, instead chefs do "all" the cooking there is out there. just a light hearted comment, never mind... :p
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I'm just messing with you ;)

The real point is that it's really hard to say there's a distinction between the effort employed on a shot or the quality or any other real metric which makes one person a professional and the other not. And it's equally silly to claim that the equipment you use makes a difference. The only definition that makes sense is who gets paid.
 
UaeExile said:
Which lenses do you recommend Phil? And what settings would you use?
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There is no specific formula for lens/settings in photography so I'm not sure Phil will be able to give you an answer. It's easy to fall into the trap of assuming there is a "one size fits all" model for specific types of photography but the priority is knowing your kit well to be able to use relevant settings and combinations according to the scene presented in front of you. For example, I'd be just as likely to shoot at F1.4 as F11 at a wedding.
 
stevelmx5 said:
There is no specific formula for lens/settings in photography so I'm not sure Phil will be able to give you an answer. It's easy to fall into the trap of assuming there is a "one size fits all" model for specific types of photography but the priority is knowing your kit well to be able to use relevant settings and combinations according to the scene presented in front of you. For example, I'd be just as likely to shoot at F1.4 as F11 at a wedding.
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LOL :D:banana:
 
Byker28i said:
Had an interesting chat with a photographer last year showing off some of his work, who's moved to a Fuji X for the lightweight aspect of his work

http://www.matthewhartphotography.com/
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To be fair though looking at his site he's a Fuji photographer making most of his money from Workshops. The majority of his other stuff is street, where he's under little pressure to meet the demands of a CEO of mother of the bride!

Don't get me wrong, there are photographers swapping to Fuji for pro stuff, like Kevin Mullins who runs www.the-owl.co.uk but most working pro's still use DSLRs and the overwhelming majority are using full frame bodies.
 
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From his 'About' page...

Due to the fact I spent the bulk of my life using black and white film, I am trying to explore the black and white side of digital, using all the modern techniques, to get depth and tone in to my images that I loved to do with film, but with my own unique twist.
 
Nikon_Nick said:
From his 'About' page...

Due to the fact I spent the bulk of my life using black and white film, I am trying to explore the black and white side of digital, using all the modern techniques, to get depth and tone in to my images that I loved to do with film, but with my own unique twist.
Click to expand...

So you're saying it can do colour? Good to know, good to know.
 
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