Push Processing

Kev M

Kev M

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I'm going to do my first bit of deliberate push processing tonight and wondered how best to minimise excessive grain. Should I use a weak solution or the normal solution of developer and does agitation make a differenece to grain?

I've got Neopan400 and HP5 to push from 400-1600 in Ilfosol3.
 
I remember doing some HP5 film with LC29 developer (that's all I had at the time) when I rated it at 1600 ASA. It was grainy, but not obtrusive kind of grain if you see what I mean. In saying that I was only doing 7x5 prints.

The best developer to use is Microphen, which is a powder developer. I used this myself quite a long time ago, and Ilford themselves recommend this for uprating film speeds. I've never used Ilfosol 3 for push processing I'm afraid, but it's a decent developer for slower films such as FP4.
 
Microphen might have to go on order for next time then (either that or I'll wait until summer when the light is stronger), but for now I'll use the Ilfosol to get it done sooner as I suspect most will be badly composed, out of focus, poorly exposed with a dose of camera shake so ther's no point being too precious about them;)
 
Does anyone know if there's much difference between Ilfosol3 and IlfosolS? ilfosol3 has replaced IlfosolS but on the datasheets the timings are all for IlfosolS and I'm not sure if the developing times will be the same for Ilfosol3. I had a look at the massive developing chart but it only goes up to ISO800 for both my films.
 
As far as I'm aware Ilford still produce Ilfosol S, but I don't know if Ilfosol 3 will replace it at some point. Ilfosol S is a more general purpose developer, whilst I understand Ilfosol 3 is more suited to slower films such as Delta 100 or FP4.

I can't find any mention of developing times for 1600 ASA using Ilfosol 3, either on the film packaging or on the leaflets I still have from the chemical bottles, so this could be because Ilford won't recommend using this developer for push processing to the speed you want. I wouldn't go off the Ilfosol S developing times though. These do vary widely from one developer to another, even at the same temperatures and dilution strengths.

Sorry I can't be of more help, but my advice would be to contact their technical department where someone may be able to assist you.
 
Thanks for your help carl. I think I'll drop Ilford an email tomorrow and maybe it'll be worth me waiting to get a more suitable developer instead.
 
Couldn't find contact details for Ilford so caled RK Photographic (www.thedarkroom.co.uk) and spoke to a very nice chap called Morris. Told me that Ilfosol3 replaced IlfosolS a couple of years back because of H&S reasons and that although iMicrophen would produce slightly less grain I can still do it with Ilfosol3.:Thumbs:

Means I don't have to wait until after xmas for some new chemicals to arrive. Tonight I will mostly be getting intoxicated on dev, stop and fix(y)
 
Kev M said:
Told me that Ilfosol3 replaced IlfosolS a couple of years back because of H&S reasons and that although iMicrophen would produce slightly less grain I can still do it with Ilfosol3.:Thumbs:
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Yes you are quite right. I was on the phone to Ilford this morning to order some films and paper, and I did ask about Ilfosol S. The girl said they stopped producing it around 12 months ago.
 
Turns out it was another on of those learning through failure experiences. The advice I'd been given was that a general rule of thumb is to extend the developing time by 1.33 per stop.

Looking at the massive developing chart using Ilfosol3 it said HP5 and Neopan400 were both 6.5 minutes at ISO400 and 9.5 minutes at ISO800 which is 1.45x per stop.

I went with the 1.33x for the Neopan and it was an out and out failure, looking at the negs they were thoroughly under-exposed (but my scanner coped surprisingly well with extracting detail). So I went for 1.45x with the HP5, I'm not sure if the exposure is quite right given that I'm not sure I metered properly on the day but the results were definately more printable than the roll of Neopan. Shame they were still crap photos though;)
 
Kev M said:
Turns out it was another on of those learning through failure experiences. The advice I'd been given was that a general rule of thumb is to extend the developing time by 1.33 per stop.

Looking at the massive developing chart using Ilfosol3 it said HP5 and Neopan400 were both 6.5 minutes at ISO400 and 9.5 minutes at ISO800 which is 1.45x per stop.

I went with the 1.33x for the Neopan and it was an out and out failure, looking at the negs they were thoroughly under-exposed
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Hi Kev,

Sorry to hear your film didn't work out as you'd hoped, but I've had a look at Ilford's fact sheet for Ilfosol 3, and they quote a time of 13 and a half minutes for HP5 at ISO 800 using 1+9 and at 20 C. I've no idea about the Fuji. At least you gave it a go.

Carl.


EDIT: Not sure what happened here before, but just before I started writing the reply the computer submitted your original quote before I had a chance to write anything. Must be gremlins in my PC again. Darn these computers!
 
Hi Carl,

I was quoted the 13 minutes to puch one stop when I spoke to the fella at RK Photographic but he said that it was ridiculous as it would have made ISO1600 26 minutes. Bizarrely I found some HP5 images which had been pushed to 1600 in Ilfolsol3 for 11 minutes (1.33x) on Flickr and they looked great. I had to be wary of them though as there's no way of telling how much they've been messed with on the computer.

If 13 minutes is ISO800 then I'll have been one stop under which isn't really that much so it's hard for me to say if my timing was right or if Ilfords is right. Either way, the Neopan was miles out. I think I'll have to get some chemicals specifically for pushing so that I can get some tried and tested datasheets for them.
 
For liquid developers, Ilford quote a time of 7.5 minutes if you're using LC29 with HP5 rated at 1600 ISO/ASA (1+9 @ 20 C). You can also use DD-X which requires 13 minutes (this one is more concentrated at 1+4).

Strangely, they don't quote a time for the Fuji, only up to 800 ISO, and even then they recommend using the figures as a guide only.

Microphen will give you the finest grain, and is designed for uprating film speeds. This is a powder developer, and for HP5 at 1600 ISO, they quote 11 minutes (stock solution). They do give a time for your Fuji, which is 8.5 minutes for 1600 ISO, but again they're advising caution when using another manufacturers films'.

Here are a couple of links to their fact sheets for both liquid and powder developers if you'd like to have a read:

http://www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/20073211236917.pdf

http://www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/200621612182416.pdf
 
Thanks Carl I've bookmarked them for later reading. I've heard of Microphen a few times so perhaps I'll get some in. I just hope it isn't as complicated to mix as the powder they used to use in college (D76 I think).
 
Its not complicated, its a mix one powder with water then add another powder type complicated.
I like microphen, but it goes nowhere, you think you have loads with 1 litre compared with the one shots, but the dilution for a one roll tank is nothing like one shot developer, its something daft like 1 to 2 when ilfosol is like 1 to 9...:)
 
Kev M said:
Thanks Carl I've bookmarked them for later reading. I've heard of Microphen a few times so perhaps I'll get some in. I just hope it isn't as complicated to mix as the powder they used to use in college (D76 I think).
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Don't worry, it's quite straightforward. The last time I used it there were 2 sachets in the box marked A and B. You need the water at 40 C (about three-quarters of the solution volume) whilst you empty out pack A, and once that has dissolved, you gradually empty out pack B and mix it altogether. Gradually add cold water to make up the solution volume and let it come down to 20 C.

I've only ever used this as stock solution, as I've only had a handful of films that required Microphen developer, but you can dilute it further if needed. There'll be a leaflet with the pack explaining everything.

Hope it works out better for you the next time. (y)
 
Well I'm toying with the idea of buying a 500mm F8 so I could be getting plenty of practice in pushing films.
 
Just an added note Kev, I used the Microphen when I had some Delta 3200 to develop as I had rated one of them at 6400 ISO/ASA and a couple of them at 3200 ISO. These films are grainy enough as it is, so the Microphen would be well suited for this. But for HP5, even at 1600 ISO, you could very easily stick with a liquid developer such as LC29 like I did. It'll give you slightly more grain than with Microphen, but at least you won't have any powder to mix.
 
Has anyone else push processed Neopan400? The other week I tried pushing it to 1600 but the timings were wrong so I didn't really pay any attention to the negatives. This week I pushed it to 800 in Ilfosol3 and it was grainy as hell. I know Ilfosol3 isn't the greatest developer for pushing but I'd pushed a roll of HP5 to 1600 and it was nowhere near as bad as the Neopan.

Does Neopan grain badly or do you think I've cocked something up somewhere in the developing process?
 
I'm afraid I have no experience of Neopan 400 as I've never used it. There's a link below for a data sheet for your film which lists various developers and their times (you've probably already seen it), however it doesn't list Ilfosol 3. The only other Ilford developers it mentions are LC29, ID-11 and Microphen.

http://www.fujifilm.ca/documents/Fuji_N400PR_AF3-706E.pdf
 
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