"Quick" Parabolic Modifier?

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dancook

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mike weeks said:
Why the Parabolics?

Mike
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Inexperience? :)

I enjoyed using a beauty dish for a while, and it made me gravitate towards preferring a round modifier.

I also wanted to start with something versatile and easy to pop up and put away.

Feel free to make suggestions, assume I have NO modifiers at all (s-bowens).. I'm trying to build up a portable 'starter kit' for portraits/group shots/fill lighting for use with two lamps.
 
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dancook said:
I enjoyed using a beauty dish for a while, and it made me gravitate towards preferring a round modifier.
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Depends on what you want it for... a parabolic/BD is a "hard" light source unless you modify it with a sock/diffusion or adjust the placement of the light w/in the umbrella (in which case it's no longer "parabolic"). I would suggest the Lencarta folding BD for this... there's probably others, I just don't know what is avail there.

If you want round and soft, then you really just want a large round softbox (or bounce umbrella w/ diffusion)... in this case parabolic would be a negative as it makes the softbox much larger/deeper and you're just trying to defeat it in order to make it soft.

If you want a ring light type of effect then you need a parabolic umbrella with the light far away (not at the parabolic focus point).
 
dancook said:
Inexperience? :)

I enjoyed using a beauty dish for a while, and it made me gravitate towards preferring a round modifier.

I also wanted to start with something versatile and easy to pop up and put away.

Feel free to make suggestions, assume I have NO modifiers at all (s-bowens).. I'm trying to build up a portable 'starter kit' for portraits/group shots/fill lighting for use with two lamps.
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The true use for a Parabolic is to put the light in from the front, look for Karl Taylor’s video on YouTube, anything else is just marketing bull

Mike
 
mike weeks said:
The true use for a Parabolic is to put the light in from the front, look for Karl Taylor’s video on YouTube, anything else is just marketing bull

Mike
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Westcott are doing it too, is there no point to these modifiers?
https://www.fjwestcott.com/shop/light-modifiers/zeppelin

or is it because I didn't use the word 'softbox'
it's the same as those I linked

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NrNpQlabnE


This parabolic modifier though looks good and versatile.
 
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I cam into parabolic from the 'softbox' side of things, not the parabolic light focusing dynamics - but now that I've seen that, it looks pretty cool!
 
sk66 said:
If you want round and soft, then you really just want a large round softbox.
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I'd have to go for a octa softbox right? because anything with sixteen sides is a marketing ploy for the inappropriate use of a parabolic shape?
 
The 'parabolic' softboxes are good if you want to use them with indirect heads as they're deep enough for it but otherwise don't bother as almost none of them are actually parabolic so they offer no real advantage and their extra depth makes them harder to use/transport.

The extra ribs do make a more naturally round catch light than the octas but you can get a better result just by buying a softbox that uses a mask with a hole.

So it's not the worst idea in the world if you want to transport it to avoid the fake parabolic softboxes.
 
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dancook said:
Inexperience? :)

I enjoyed using a beauty dish for a while, and it made me gravitate towards preferring a round modifier.

I also wanted to start with something versatile and easy to pop up and put away.

Feel free to make suggestions, assume I have NO modifiers at all (s-bowens).. I'm trying to build up a portable 'starter kit' for portraits/group shots/fill lighting for use with two lamps.
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Same here Dan so following with interest. I have the lights (2 x Lencarta 300s) now need the modifiers.
 
Carol S said:
Same here Dan so following with interest. I have the lights (2 x Lencarta 300s) now need the modifiers.
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My latest train of thought is

2 x Large Reflective Umbrellas for group shots (I'm not sure if this is the best option though and I'm still looking)
1 x 150 octobox or similar for school portraits allowing full body if necessary
1 x Beauty Dish for home usage, 150 would be too big

When I'm using the beauty dish, I might need another modifier to give me a second light - either fill or hair/background don't know.

Maybe I should also get
2 x Cones - might be needed to use umbrellas with anyway
2 x Shoot through umbrellas?

also might need a boom arm.. :D hah
and a stand for a reflector dish...
 
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It's hard to advise Dan, you've got to suck it and see.

As others have said, 'parabolic' is just marketing bull. Anything this side of those huge, cumbersome and costly true parabolics with adjustable focus/light position are not parabolic in any meaningful sense. I'll be polite and say the difference is subtle at best, and would be way down my list of priorities, even if I wanted that kind of effect.

Dunno if this is helpful, but I've more or less decided on what I'll be getting soon when the Godox AD600-Pro is proven, as my main go-to modifiers (plus other stuff I already have, including strips, snoot, honeycomb, big rectangular softbox etc). Lencarta Folding Beauty Dishes, 1x 120cm, 2x 80cm, and one 60cm, all in silver, though most likely used with the softbox diffusers. I have one 80cm now and that seems to work well and I'd like a set all the same (colourwise). The sizes are right for the kind of work I do (people, location, product stuff), they're fairly easy to put up/down quickly, 16 ribs gives a nice round shape and they're metal so while a bit heavier than I'd like they might bounce in a tumble rather than bend. They come with a grid and a recessed front for feathering, detachable diffusers of course and a beauty-dish deflector, so a fair amount of versatility there. And they're not too deep, as I think my studio space might be shrinking soon and sometimes every inch helps in some locations. The handy little carry bag is okay if nothing special, and the price is right.

HTH :)
 
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dancook said:
This is going to be my order, so that I have a variety of options for portraits/groups.
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Looks OK to me, but I don't really see the point of the 59" bounce umbrellas and 59" octa. Assuming the octa is silver lined and has removable diffusion/grid it can do what the umbrellas do. And assuming the bounce umbrellas have diffusion that can be added they can do most of what the octa can do. Maybe one of each? I can't see using 3 that size at the same time as a common need.
 
sk66 said:
Looks OK to me, but I don't really see the point of the 59" bounce umbrellas and 59" octa. Assuming the octa is silver lined and has removable diffusion/grid it can do what the umbrellas do. And assuming the bounce umbrellas have diffusion that can be added they can do most of what the octa can do. Maybe one of each? I can't see using 3 that size at the same time as a common need.
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Fair point! So for groups I can use an umbrella on left and octobox on the right? equal power.

Was originally going to use 2 x umbrellas for groups
Softbox for portraits.
 
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dancook said:
Fair point! So for groups I can use an umbrella on left and octobox on the right? equal power.

Was originally going to use 2 x umbrellas for groups
Softbox for portraits.
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Well, I looked and didn't see where that umbrella has a diffuser option... This one does. I would probably use octas for both, you can always remove the outer diffusion (or both layers) for a harder look. And they have a grid as well. The recessed diffusion/raised edge gives a more defined border/edge to the lighting pattern, but it's not a big deal in most situations (if it matters that much you probably need a flag anyway).

Conversely, the umbrella I linked is more portable, easier/quicker to set up, and will pretty much duplicate the octa capabilities (minus grid)... but the flash and stand will always be evident in the catchlights.

It's all a trade off, but I think 2 of the double diffused octas w/ grids gives you more capabilities for the least money overall. Personally, I think the cheaper umbrella w/o diffusion capability is a bit of a "one trick pony" and not really the best bang for buck.

EDIT: I have no experience with those specific Pixapro products... but I don't think that much matters.
 
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Wouldnt 2 stripboxes be of more use than 2 large kites?
While I have, use and like the 6' westcott umbrella (bounce white with diffusion) I wouldnt use 2 of them
 
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soeren said:
Wouldnt 2 stripboxes be of more use than 2 large kites?
While I have, use and like the 6' westcott umbrella (bounce white with diffusion) I wouldnt use 2 of them
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For lighting a group of 20-30 people, what would you use?
 
dancook said:
For lighting a group of 20-30 people, what would you use?
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Bare lights... preferably as fill.
You're not going to get modifiers big enough to make much difference in that situation... if possible, bouncing the bare lights would be your best bet for softer lighting.

Edit: an option in this type of situation is to move the lights around and take/composite multiple images... and taking multiple shots of each portion/setup will give you the best chance of having everyone in the group looking their best at once in the final image. But it's a lot of time/effort/hassle...
 
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dancook said:
For lighting a group of 20-30 people, what would you use?
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Fast Running shoes. Point taken. Though Thinking back to my schooldays and looking at my kids schoolpics noone uses modifiers of that size
 
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sk66 said:
Bare lights... preferably as fill.
You're not going to get modifiers big enough to make much difference in that situation... if possible, bouncing the bare lights would be your best bet for softer lighting.
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Thanks, I'm not yet experienced to know when they will make a difference or not - but there will also be groups of of 2-20 people for shooting groups at awards ceremonies, so at some point they might help.

You've come in at the end of a condensed period of research, I asked on TP about what kind of modifiers I would need to cover the bases - there were no specifics like you have provided now.
https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/threads/s-bowen-modifiers-school-usage.672205/

Since I had already placed the order, I will learn with what I've bought.
 
soeren said:
Fast Running shoes. Point taken. Though Thinking back to my schooldays and looking at my kids schoolpics noone uses modifiers of that size
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I was looking for this experience back in the thread here :)
https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/threads/s-bowen-modifiers-school-usage.672205/

I wondered about softbox size - and I read it should be the diameter for the length of the portrait you want to take. So I went with 5 foot for a full body portrait.
Also I hear bigger is better :)

But really I just want to be prepared for all eventualities, I have nothing at the moment.
 
dancook said:
I wondered about softbox size - and I read it should be the diameter for the length of the portrait you want to take. So I went with 5 foot for a full body portrait.
Also I hear bigger is better :)
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The basic rule for size is that the modifier needs to be of equivalent relative size to the area being lit and at an equivalent distance. I.e. a 5ft modifier from 5ft distance to light a 5ft area... but this is actually the max as the edges of the area being lit get no wrap (softness) from the edges of the modifier. And as you move the modifier farther away, then the central portion also looses the wrap and the light is again hard (the modifier only spread/wasted light).

Maybe these images from this article will help.

Modifiers.jpg


umbrella.jpg
 
But basically I start the job in a few weeks, and I need to start playing with lighting so I have some plans..
 
sk66 said:
The basic rule for size is that the modifier needs to be of equivalent relative size to the area being lit and at an equivalent distance. I.e. a 5ft modifier from 5ft distance to light a 5ft area... but this is actually the max as the edges of the area being lit get no wrap (softness) from the edges of the modifier. And as you move the modifier farther away, then the central portion also looses the wrap and the light is again hard (the modifier only spread/wasted light).

Maybe these images from this article will help.
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Useful thanks :)
 
I sometimes use a huge reflective umbrella directly behind the camera for fill. I imagine it would work well for fairly large groups and is a lot more efficient power-wise than a softbox. It should also be slightly more forgiving than a bare reflector - with a large modifier you can get a little way off axis before unwanted shadows from the fill light become an issue.

I'm with @sk66, though - if you can bounce then do. You can make a nice natural looking light by bouncing off a side wall & ceiling with one light and filling with a large modifier with another. Here's an example test shot I've posted before..

_SRC8200.jpg
 
Works well Simon, kind of bring your own window light (y)
 
juggler said:
You can make a nice natural looking light by bouncing off a side wall & ceiling with one light and filling with a large modifier with another. Here's an example test shot I've posted before..
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When it comes to bouncing lights, backwards bounce is the softest. You are basically turning that part of the room into a light tent. But it is also much more power hungry due to the amount of scatter and greater distance the light has to travel. And because the light is traveling farther, there is less falloff at the subject/group.

Any type of forward/side bounce will be more directional and efficient. You are basically using the light spread to create a larger direct light source from the bounce surface.

I'm not saying soft light is better; it is also "flat" light... it requires shadows to show contours/texture and create drama/emotion. But it is probably better for lighting large groups.
 
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