quickest most efficient workflow?

C

cpw

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Name
Chris
Edit My Images
Yes
Hi guys

I recently shot a wedding and I discovered that my workflow isn't great. It's slow and unorganized.

What is your workflow from a wedding please?

I have Mac computer, 1tb external drive, Lightroom 3 and cs5 to create a workflow.
I think folders is an issue for me. Should you always move folders and files in Lightroom only? The software loses track of where files are if I am organising multiple memorycard backups.

I'm just after a simple step by step workflow I can stick to and get good at with all the work I'm getting.

Any suggestions or links greatly appreciated.

Thank you
 
Quickest is not necessarily the most efficient or secure.
If you want to make full use of LR, then I suggest you only create and move your folders and files in LR, otherwise LR will not be able to reference them. Remember that an LR catalogue only has in it the folders that you choose to add to it.
Everyone will have their preferred method of workflow.
I use a general import system. I have an “Imports” folder within which I have three sub-folders, “Raw Imports”, “Convert to DNG and Rename” and “Add Keywords”. Keeping them within a header folder keeps these three folders grouped together in the file structure. These folders are only used for importing and applying basic metadata before placing the image files into their final permanent folder.
I start by importing everything on the card as camera image files into the “Raw Imports”. At this stage I select which images I wish to keep and then transfer them into the “Convert to DNG/Rename” folder. After converting to DNG and renaming to my numbering system, the images in this folder are then transferred into the “Add Keywords” folder. Once I have applied keywords to each image, I am then ready to place the images into their permanent folder destination. Your folder structure is for you to decide upon, depending on your priorities/interests.
After this process, the “Imports Folder” sub-folders should be empty, ready for the next camera batch.
To many, this may seem long-winded, but I find it gives order to my system and helps avoid mistakes.
As for being slow, I recently had to up-grade my iMac, as I was much too light on RAM. Make sure you have plenty of RAM and a good processor speed. You’ll find plenty of advice on the various forums on these aspects.
Sorry for the length of reply, but it is not a simple subject. Also of course shooting only in jpeg will speed up your workflow.
Hope that helped.
 
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I really appreciate your time on my thread. Could I possibly have a look at your screen shot to get a visual of your workflow please?

Sounds like a good structured way of working

Many thanks
 
Rather than fiddle about in the forum system with images, I’ll try and explain in simple terms what I do.
Using Lightroom, in the main Pictures folder I created a folder called “Imports”. Just right click on “Pictures” and use the “Create folder inside ....” menu.
Then inside that folder I created the three sub-folders using the same right click menu.
I tweaked the titles so that the folders appeared above one another by prefixing A, B, and C in the folder descriptions (i.e. A Raw Import, B Convert to DNG, C Keywords.
Now when I wish to import, I go to the “A Raw Imports” folder, right click and choose “Import to this folder...” This opens the LR import window, choose the source (camera card) and then select the “import” button in the bottom right hand corner.
The camera image files will now transfer into the “Raw Imports” folder and you carry on from there, moving from one folder to the next as I previously described, once you have carried out the action necessary for each stage.
The Import folder is obviously only used for the purpose of importing files and is not intended for anything other than transient storage. It should be emptied as soon as possible, into your main folder structure.
Keywords are essential if you wish to benefit from Lightroom’s database facilities, as this is what makes it superior to most other systems, which are structured on folders. So don’t miss out on adding keywords.
Please ask for clarification if I’ve missed something. As I said, others have different systems, but I think you have to follow a system of general logic of sorting down a “cascade” of sub-folders if you are working with a large volume of images.
 
The biggest thing you can do to improve your wedding post-production workflow is:

Edit in - don't edit out.

You find it much faster to get to your final set of images you'll then work with going forward, and you'll have less similars.
 
Thanks for the explanation on your setup BrynBoru - that helps alot.

I have my lightroom catalog on my external hard drive with all my backed up originals - is this something you do ? or is it not advisable please?
 
I am using a 27 inch iMac with a 3.4 GHZ i7 Core and 32 GB RAM with a 3 TB Fusion Drive. (My set-up is geared to handle video, so easily copes with Lightroom.)
I use two external drives (LaCie) with a total of 6 Tb each in two partitions (four total).
I use Chronosync (Econ Technologies) to control and administer the back-up schedules.
In addition, one of the partitions of the four is given over to Time Machine.
My LR catalogue is backed up as part of my “Media” folder, which as well as video, includes my current “Pictures” folder. This is backed up to a partition on the first drive and then subsequently, (less frequently), backed up to a partition on the second drive.
I keep my LR catalogue on my computer as I do not want to lose process speed through the cable link to the external drives. Also my processing in LR is done within the iMac as again my imported images are also in my internal “Pictures” folder. I do not do any process work across the back up cables to the external drives, as I have plenty of RAM and 3TB Fusion drive.
You only need one catalogue, unless you are a major commercial studio, and this is best kept where it operates at its best. Even Martin Evening has one major catalogue with over 120,000 images in it. Remember the Lightroom catalogue does not contain the image files, but keeps track of where they are and the information associated with them, such as the metadata and develop settings.
In summary, do your work internally, back up externally, but make sure you have as much RAM as possible and a good processor speed.
(I thoroughly recommend Martin Evening’s book on Lightroom, well worth the price.)
 
Sorry, I should have pointed out the obvious, that putting everything on to an external drive and not having anything on the computer itself, is just the same as not having a back up, as all your work is only on the external drive. But perhaps that is not what you meant.
 
I don't need to have an efficient workflow, because I don't shoot that many images, and those that I do, don't need to be a finished result by any deadline.

However, I have an interest learning new things and last year I watched a webcast by Jared Platt on Creativelive on his Ultimate Lightroom Worklfow.

He works with home made presets that he applies to multiple images when appropriate, and so speeds up editing. Not only was it about workflow, it was also about how back up of files efficiently too.

I found it very interesting, and if I was in a high volume photography business, I would put his workflow into effect.

He has a new course coming up next week on Creativelive called Photoshop and Lightroom Plugins 101 which you may find of interest. It will be free to watch while it's live. :)
 
meonshore said:
The biggest thing you can do to improve your wedding post-production workflow is:

Edit in - don't edit out.

You find it much faster to get to your final set of images you'll then work with going forward, and you'll have less similars.
Click to expand...


Just to reiterate (because it seems to have been glossed over) ^^^^^^ this x 1,000


Personally I cull with PhotoMechanic before the files even get a sniff of Lightroom! :)
 
horrocks said:
BrynBoru, why do you keep original proprietary RAW files as well as DNG copies?
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I don't, is the answer. Sorry if I didn't make that clear. These import files are transient and the contents move forward to the next operation, leaving the folder empty. So if I have converted to DNG, the originals .NEF are not kept.
 
Using other software seems duplication of effort and unnecessary, as Lightroom is more than capable of handling and backing up from the moment of raw imports.
"Editing in" is an important technique, but not to be confused with setting up a methodology for managing your workflow. The OP already has Lightroom.
 
BrynBoru said:
Using other software seems duplication of effort and unnecessary, as Lightroom is more than capable of handling and backing up from the moment of raw imports.
"Editing in" is an important technique, but not to be confused with setting up a methodology for managing your workflow. The OP already has Lightroom.
Click to expand...

What sort of volume of shots are you editing with your workflow?
 
DemiLion said:
What sort of volume of shots are you editing with your workflow?
Click to expand...
I have a relatively small catalogue of 6500 images, as I'm not a commercial or wedding photographer. I shoot something every day, so over time, things get confusing if I don't use some kind of system for importing and catalogueing.
This week I was asked to photograph an event which generated about 200 images, but I only did it as a favour. Not sure if that's very relevant to the thread.
 
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BrynBoru said:
I have a relatively small catalogue of 6500 images, as I'm not a commercial or wedding photographer. I shoot something every day, so over time, things get confusing if I don't use some kind of system for importing and catalogueing.
This week I was asked to photograph an event which generated about 200 images, but I only did it as a favour. Not sure if that's very relevant to the thread.
Click to expand...

Chris asked for advice on workflow for weddings in his opening post. That means high volume processing upwards of 800-1000 shots per session. Hence several of us who have experience reiterating the concept of 'edit in'.

Basically the volume of shots v the workflow method is exactly what this thread is meant to be about- so yes, it's very relevant! :)

In effect that means culling before the shots even see Lightroom, let alone converting to DNG, saving and then rerunning the routine with keywording. Your method would mean processing approximately 60-75% of the shoot which is going to be culled anyway - let alone clogging up the catalogue with files that are never going to be touched.

There's a reason that sports, news and (increasingly more) wedding photographers use Photomechanic before LR import- it's highly efficient and saves time when used properly.
It's all about speed. PM has one of the fastest rendering engines on the market which allows you to cull, caption, keyword and rename files extremely efficiently. You then import only the files that need work.

If its all about cost ( bearing in mind that PM only costs about £100), then Faststone is an excellent Freeware tool for culling. It just doesn't incorporate the metadata tools that PM does.
 
DemiLion said:
Your method would mean processing approximately 60-75% of the shoot which is going to be culled anyway - let alone clogging up the catalogue with files that are never going to be touched.
Click to expand...

Perhaps a careful re-reading of my posts is required.
If you prefer to work outside of LR to keyword and caption files, I cannot argue as I know nothing about PM. However my method is taken from Martin Evening’s excellent book on Lightroom (which I mentioned early in the thread) in the chapter devoted to organising folders, based on the original workflow suggestion by Peter Krogh. Martin does not advocate or use any third party software prior to importing into LR and he places great emphasis on LR being data based and allocating key words at an early stage.
I may not have explained it sufficiently clearly, but my camera card raw imports are brought into LR into my “Raw Import” folder on a minimal rendering setting, so the process is quite rapid. I then decide on what to keep, etc, (editing in), so you are mistaken if you consider I clog up my catalogue with unwanted files. I only subsequently push forward files into the next folder (Convert to DNG) that I’m sure I will keep and renumber etc. No conversions to DNG, keywords or numbering are done prior to my cull. Therefore I’m not clogging up my catalogue as it only then has the files I wish to retain.
Please understand that these import processing folders are always emptied by the time the files are finally put into their permanent main catalogue folders, complete with keywords, renumbering and development. The act of moving forward from a folder, empties that folder into the next.
I certainly don’t have any speed problems, but then I have recently upgraded my hardware to the best available processor speed and RAM that’s on offer from Apple for 27inch iMacs. Also I think I would have to ask questions of myself if I was culling up to 75% of my work, but then I am not under that kind of pressure.
It is natural to defend what one is used to but I respectfully offer that a greater understanding of LR might reveal benefits that would outweigh having to use prior third party software.
That being said, there are better things to lose sleep over than photo management apps. Hopefully the OP has benefited from the discussion and all I can suggest to him is that he upgrades to LR5 to get the maximum benefits.
 
BrynBoru said:
It is natural to defend what one is used to but I respectfully offer that a greater understanding of LR might reveal benefits that would outweigh having to use prior third party software.
Click to expand...

I would respectfully suggest that those who do this sort of thing regularly, for a living, might have a thorough knowledge of Lightroom yet still find it more efficient and expedient to use another programme in their workflow in addition.

Btw Adobe software is third party as well!
 
As in sure you realise, I'm not apologising. I'm suggesting that you don't have the experience of high volume jobs to be able to give someone accurate advice regarding the original question.
 
DemiLion said:
As in sure you realise, I'm not apologising. I'm suggesting that you don't have the experience of high volume jobs to be able to give someone accurate advice regarding the original question.
Click to expand...

I was careful on two occasions at the outset to advise the OP that this was my view and that others had their preferred method. However you have stated that the method used by me as advocated by Martin Evening and Peter Krogh, is wrong and leads to clogging up the catalogue with unnecessary files. You are not prepared, it seems, to acknowledge that you may have misunderstood what I was describing.
I may not be a high volume shooter, but I have a pretty good understanding of Lightroom. The OP can make up his own mind whether he wants to spend more on additional software, or whether to increase his understanding and refine his abilities with LR first.
 
This really has the potential to turn into a cracking argument :D I just hope the OP continues to get some benefit from the additional information provided...

The OP is looking for a WORKFLOW for WEDDINGS, and whilst he does talk about moving files around on disks workflow is so much more than just the physical file management.

Some bulleted observations from my point of view, and thanks also to Mark and Ben for re-stating my point about editing in.

- In this context Workflow is the process of managing a set of files from a shoot (a wedding) from creation to completion. In my eyes completion is the delivery of the disk/album or depending on your standard practices then archiving the wedding off completely or deleting it.

- You could apply similar principals to any shoot whether it is a commercial job or a football match - but you might be more likely to use a tool like Photomechanic (which I also own and use) where you are looking to wire very quickly because of the nature of the job and then only work on a full set in Lightroom for your second edit although if I were shooting weddings now I'd certainly consider it for my initial cull rather than Lightroom. It isn't about clogging up the library but about being able to create a quality set of images ready for delivery in the minimum time possible.

- Martin Evening is not the font of all knowledge on workflow, or even Adobe workflow - and he certainly wouldn't talk about Photomechanic in his books because it is a competitor/overlap product. That doesn't mean it isn't a vital part of many peoples workflow and an entirely valid part. Ignorance of a product does not mean it should be excluded from a valid discussion. I doubt he exerts that his word is law - and you shouldn't take that up on his behalf - it is one route through not the only.

- You can follow editing in principals with just Lightroom, you don't need Photomechanic to cull files - I don't think anyone is advocating buying extra software for the sake of it.

I'm a great believer in disclosure in forums so that OPs can make an informed weighting as to the validity or relevance of the advice given. My current LR catalogue has 139,764 images in it, and covers *most* of my shoots across the last 3 years. It definitely excludes 2 very large jobs of approx 10,000 images each which I have in separate catalogues for performance reasons when editing them. I have only been using PM for about the last 6 months.

Whilst I no longer shoot weddings I did for 10 years and covered tens of weddings a year peaking at one point at 50 in a calendar year (that year isn't in my current catalogue). Average images per wedding 1200-1500 of which I typically delivered 350-500 to the couple - a culling ratio of about 3:1 not because I'm a poor photographer (to counter an earlier inference) but because I cull similars, missed expressions, and of course images which don't make the quality threshold due to focus error, people blocking the main subject, and some stuff I tried which didn't work out.

Getting files onto a computer, and then onto backup media is a very very small part of processing a wedding and the associated workflow. Owning Lightroom doesn't make the remaining tasks obvious, or automated. I'd estimate that the ingest and backup of files takes up about 1-2% of the total time taken to process a wedding - and you can only really shave 10% of that time by fully optimising it. It barely merits discussion if you are looking to reduce the overall time.

What does make a massive difference is:

- EDITING IN your selection of final images. I'd estimate from experience a reduction in final images delivered to the client either as proof images or on the disk (for shoot and burn) of 20% with no loss of quality or coverage simply by editing in. On my averages that reduces the images worked on for the rest of the process by 70-100 images. If you only spent 2 minutes on those files across the rest of the process then you have shaved 2-3 hours off a wedding - as well as making your client lives easier.

- Applying batch corrections to images taken in similar light, similar exposure (assuming you shoot manual at points in the day) for white balance, exposure, contrast etc

- Automating as much of the production of proof images, DVD images, blog images, watermarked images, mono conversion etc using actions or tools

- Actually if you do anything more than shoot and burn the way you interact and deal with the couple and family/guests for proofs, album designs, and other products can be the most time consuming and effort intensive part of the job making the preparation of the images a minor aspect.

I'll see if I can do a short post with my wedding workflow in it separately - but I'm not suggesting it was perfect - just one I got happy with and could repeat time after time.
 
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cpw said:
Hi guys. Any suggestions or links greatly appreciated.

Thank you
Click to expand...

Chris (the OP) might be interested in the following comparison. Photo Mechanic has been given such prominence, I was intrigued enough to try and find some qualitative assessments rather than generalisations about how fast it actually is.
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2410505,00.asp is the only one I could find with some import times. I have to accept it as face value since I am not familiar with the journal or the author.

Time to Import 40 mixed raw files (in seconds, lower is better)
Aperture 33sec
Lightroom 39sec
Photo Mechanic 34sec
Time to import 246 CR2 files (in seconds, lower is better)
Aperture 3:26sec
Lightroom 4:12sec
Photo Mechanic 3:57sec
As Photo Mechanic is neither a raw image converter nor a photo editor, the net practical difference compared to Lightroom is less, due to duplication of import effort.
As Mike has pointed out in his excellent overview of the total wedding work flow process, this aspect takes up less than 2% of the total time and as he points out, barely merits discussion.
 
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BrynBoru said:
Chris (the OP) might be interested in the following comparison. Photo Mechanic has been given such prominence, I was intrigued enough to try and find some qualitative assessments rather than generalisations about how fast it actually is.
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2410505,00.asp is the only one I could find with some import times. I have to accept it as face value since I am not familiar with the journal or the author.

Time to Import 40 mixed raw files (in seconds, lower is better)
Aperture 33sec
Lightroom 39sec
Photo Mechanic 34sec
Time to import 246 CR2 files (in seconds, lower is better)
Aperture 3:26sec
Lightroom 4:12sec
Photo Mechanic 3:57sec
As Photo Mechanic is neither a raw image converter nor a photo editor, the net practical difference compared to Lightroom is less, due to duplication of import effort.
As Mike has pointed out in his excellent overview of the total wedding work flow process, this aspect takes up less than 2% of the total time and as he points out, barely merits discussion.
Click to expand...


I believe Photomechanic creates jpg preview files from the raw files, which is what makes the culling process in Photomechanic so quick. In Lightroom you have to wait for previews to render - it's a much slower process.

There is no duplication of import (certainly not of any great length of time anyway). After PM, you import files to Lightroom but add them from the same location rather than copy. It takes a few seconds, but not enough time that makes it slower to use both softwares. It's still much quicker - but then I think you know that, but for whatever reasons you have a loyalty to Lightroom.
 
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theurbanclown said:
I believe Photomechanic creates jpg preview files from the raw files, which is what makes the culling process in Photomechanic so quick. In Lightroom you have to wait for previews to render - it's a much slower process.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the response and it’s good to hear constructive comments.
Many of the complaints about the slowness of Lightroom, as you may already know, are very much dependent on optimizing the hardware and OS. Perhaps I am in a more fortunate position than most as I have upgraded to the 27inch iMac from a standard 2009 model. I did so because I knew that my system had become too slow, out of date and also not suitable for FCP X video editing. The improvements for me were immediate, so I now don’t complain about slow rendering anything like I used to.
I made sure I had 32 GB RAM and a fast 3TB fusion drive. I don’t work through external drives other than for back-ups, and I keep graphics driver software up to date. I have plenty of free disc space, the lack of which can cause poor performance.
I don’t keep1:1 preview files any longer than necessary, as they quickly eat-up disc space.
I suspect that a lot of the complaints of slow rendering may be down to the need for this housekeeping, rather than an inherent lack of performance in the software.
Being the first person to answer the OP, I of course responded to his main question about moving folders in Lightroom.
I have no particular loyalty to any software and sometimes I am guilty of falling into the trap of generalizing rather than comparing facts. I agree that for high volume sports/photo journalists Photo Mechanic offers unique benefits. Whether it makes sense for the OP or the average level photographer is debatable, as I consider that they would need to look at their complete system performance before deciding.
I like what I have found out about Photo Mechanic and would be tempted to buy it, but then maybe I would be accused of just having it for the bragging rights!
 
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Edit in made the biggest difference to my workflow. generally i shoot in bursts and 3 to 4 shots are very similar. Most wedding togs shoot a couple of frames of a situation / scene etc to ensure they have an optimum shot (im still in the very early days of this so its just my understanding). I used edit out and delete, however i sat down, pulled up each batch of 4 shots so i could compare and editied in and immediately cut my workflow in half. No ******ing around. 4 images, choose the best, move on!

My workflow probbaly isnt the best but here goes.
Create a new folder in the main 'shoot' folder
Import in date order and 'name of shoot / couple etc'
Import Raw files direct into lightroom and add any keywords as it imports
edit in the 250-300 main images
batch process images in the same light / conditions etc where posisble. tweaking individuals as necessary using any presets i have created
star / flag the top 100-150 images i consider the best of the best
Process in detail the top 100-150
Sharpen all images
select all images and save as JPG in the dedicated client folder on my hard drive 1 copy for hi res one for web / facebook etc
Burn to disk
Create storyboard


I may take individual images into CS6 if there is something more creative that needs doing which LR cant support.
Biggest issue i have at the moment is LR sharpening.The LR applies seems to suck. Im toying with somehow integrating CS6 into this so that i sharpen in cs6 as the output seems betterr.

Still learning all this though...
 
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