RANT!!!!!

squizza

squizza

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Arrrrrggggh I got a very good chance to do a wedding this year (paid) but got pipped to the post by one of the bride-to-be's friend because her husband 'owns a 5d and its better than what all of the professionals use, and he will do it for free.'
:bang:
 
That's life.
 
I just laughed at her comment because it is a very naive one. Of course the camera is capable (don't want a thread going on about that) but oh my goodness. I just laugh about it.

I also told her straight that photography costs a lot of money to set up, and she will have to be prepared for the possibility of crap images. Yes he could be very good. BUT the comment sums up it all I think.
 
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id be keen to point out to them that this is probably one of the most important days of their lives and entrusting recording it to someone who they probably have no idea what their experience or processing is like is extremely foolish.
 
The sheer fact that the chap with the 5D is willing to do it for free already raises eyebrows.
Usually in life you get what you paid for. Pay peanuts and mostly you get peanuts in return in different currency. Accept a favour from someone that says he or she will do it for free, something that we all know takes a lot of talent, stress and effort to produce then chances are you are risking getting rubbish stuff.
 
....awaits friend's husband to come on here asking for advice about this wedding he's been talked into covering.

:D
 
I assume for the wedding cake she's getting it done for free by a friend with a really expensive oven?





... Because that's obviously what matters, right?
 
oh and her dress is being made by the pal who has an all singing all dancing sewing machine?

and all the best fabric.

sorry
 
On the other hand he may know exactly how to use his 5D, take good wedding photos and is doing it free:

a) Because he enjoys photography
b) As a favour

Just because the bride made a stupid comment about his camera doesn't mean he doesn't know what he's doing.
 
scorpius said:
On the other hand he may know exactly how to use his 5D, take good wedding photos and is doing it free:

a) Because he enjoys photography
b) As a favour

Just because the bride made a stupid comment about his camera doesn't mean he doesn't know what he's doing.
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Hands up anyone who would confidently do a wedding shoot for a friend, oops correction, wife's friend wedding, and not charge anything.
 
I've got a mate who's posted some wedding shots on his Flickr, he's as proud as punch of his work.
How do I tell him about the cropped heads, the annoying movements and blurs.

I'm not and never will be a wedding tog but to offer to do it for free for anyone is madness, to do it for a close friend may end a friendship.

Sarah, there will be others just bide your time. You time will come soon not later :D
 
I suppose the flipside is that I've seen some professionals do an absolutely shocking job of shooting a wedding. -At a decent percentage of the weddings I have been too the photo's have been average at best....I certainly wouldn't have want to pay for them!

So I think what I am trying to say is that a lot of people don't really appreciate what a good togger can do so are happy to have a mate do it for free. Otherwise how do all the crap wedding togger's stay in business?
 
My mate a wedding tog and he's hearing that more and more these days, the B/G get convinced anyone can do it, my mate gets phone calls the night before. like

"my mates dad said he would do it for a wedding gift he's alway mucking about with cameras".


take a non returnable deposit of £20 that makes em think twice that's what my mates doing, to secure the day.


Merc
 
mercmanuk said:
My mate a wedding tog and he's hearing that more and more these days, the B/G get convinced anyone can do it, my mate gets phone calls the night before. like

"my mates dad said he would do it for a wedding gift he's alway mucking about with cameras".


take a non returnable deposit of £20 that makes em think twice that's what my mates doing, to secure the day.


Merc
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firstly not a wedding photographer............. so cannot really comment from a professionals point of view, but a £20 deposit?

Get real!

Suppose you were getting married and I dunno say £500 for the tog with a £20 deposit, then a half decent amateur came along (and as a B&G on a budget) offering their wares for free... would you lose £20 to save £480? I guess so.


form experience when we got married and I am sure the same today........ something like a 30% non refundable deposit, and the balance 4 weeks before....... (or something like that)

Saying that it was a well known local professional company (been going years and well known throughout S Norfolk) and it was 5 years back £800 for 2 togs for 5 hours, and album etc........

Pretty much every semi-pro / pro nowadays works on a NFD/booking fee and balance up front
 
Weddings are stupidly expensive....so if people can save money they will. The advance in technology of the last 15 years means the gap between what a pro has in his bag and what you're average joe has is a lot closer than it used to be.
 
Well, we are also forgetting the fact that may be the marrying couple are interested in postcard size prints and the photographer doing it for free is going to just give them the files probably even without processing them.

Some people usually confuse the fact that someone who buys a DSLR and has a couple of expensive lenses are great photographers, or more precisely great portrait and wedding shooters.

I recently was looking at a wedding album of a close friend including the DVD with the images and she had spent a huge amount of money for the wedding shoot and tried to be very diplomatic and did not point at so many obvious errors such as harsh shadows etc amongst some of the obvious problems with the images including very bad lighting, some images that could have done with a bit of processing to balance the light, backgrounds etc. Did not want to lie also and say they were good. Just managed to get around saying anything directly to do with the quality of the shoot.

As it happened I was there (Africa) to do some work around rural areas and she was going to accompany me on a 1800 mile trip across the country and as she had a keen interest in photography during the trip I let her use my kit for several occasions and was teaching her the basics and giving her tips etc. Surprise surprise after returning from the trip she started moaning about how bad her wedding images were and pointing the very aspects I had been teaching her like how to avoid harsh shadows etc.
Conclusion of this is many times a viewer realises how bad photos are when they can compare them with some that have been nicely taken or when they become aware of mistakes that are not supposed to be there.
I even asked her why was she saying her wedding pics were not well taken and she immediately went like: Oh look at those shadows around my head, and look they are so fuzzy, they look out of focus etc etc.
 
zulupentax said:
Well, we are also forgetting the fact that may be the marrying couple are interested in postcard size prints and the photographer doing it for free is going to just give them the files probably even without processing them.

Some people usually confuse the fact that someone who buys a DSLR and has a couple of expensive lenses are great photographers, or more precisely great portrait and wedding shooters.

I recently was looking at a wedding album of a close friend including the DVD with the images and she had spent a huge amount of money for the wedding shoot and tried to be very diplomatic and did not point at so many obvious errors such as harsh shadows etc amongst some of the obvious problems with the images including very bad lighting, some images that could have done with a bit of processing to balance the light, backgrounds etc. Did not want to lie also and say they were good. Just managed to get around saying anything directly to do with the quality of the shoot.

As it happened I was there (Africa) to do some work around rural areas and she was going to accompany me on a 1800 mile trip across the country and as she had a keen interest in photography during the trip I let her use my kit for several occasions and was teaching her the basics and giving her tips etc. Surprise surprise after returning from the trip she started moaning about how bad her wedding images were and pointing the very aspects I had been teaching her like how to avoid harsh shadows etc.
Conclusion of this is many times a viewer realises how bad photos are when they can compare them with some that have been nicely taken or when they become aware of mistakes that are not supposed to be there.
I even asked her why was she saying her wedding pics were not well taken and she immediately went like: Oh look at those shadows around my head, and look they are so fuzzy, they look out of focus etc etc.
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Many people also forget that because someone has a nice camera and expensive kit it doesn't make them bad either

Talk about reverse snobbery just cause he has a 5d and his girlfriends mum thinks that's all there is to it makes him incapeable how exactly
 
boyfalldown said:
Many people also forget that because someone has a nice camera and expensive kit it doesn't make them bad either

Talk about reverse snobbery just cause he has a 5d and his girlfriends mum thinks that's all there is to it makes him incapeable how exactly
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Same applies the other way around, just because someone has an expensive kit doesn't make them necessarily great either at taking pics, particularly wedding ones.
Wasn't this the implication of the comment when the wedding shoot was cancelled? That the chap had a 5D and was a far better camera and could do the job far better than many so called professionals? That's where the snobbery started rather than from the other end.

That phrase rather than the bride's mum friend was a good photographer or good at taking pictures and offered to do it for free would have sounded much better.

Well, what do I know anyway, I am just a newbie still trying to learn the ropes, and do not have a 5D anyway ;)
 
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He didn't make the comment though. A comment about him by somebody elses mum hardly deserves some of the comments in this thread.

I didn't see or read any comments about less expensive kit in anything said

For what it's worth my mum tells everyone that my camera tAkes lovely photos I know what she means and just laugh at her
 
squizza said:
I just laughed at her comment because it is a very naive one. Of course the camera is capable (don't want a thread going on about that) but oh my goodness. I just laugh about it.

I also told her straight that photography costs a lot of money to set up, and she will have to be prepared for the possibility of crap images. Yes he could be very good. BUT the comment sums up it all I think.
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As you say Sarah the comment was a bit naive but then coming from somebody that may not have a clue they can be forgiven. However the reply you gave her was imo not really appropriate. Myself I might have said well that is fair enough and let it go at that. There might be a chance that it falls through for whatever reason with the other guy and she might get back in touch, even at the last minute :shrug: You would then be in a position to up your rate if she could not find anybody else for the job. Without seeing any of the guy`s work then nobody should be passing judgement even if he is doing it for free, after all he is a fellow Photographer. If you do not know him then you might well bump into him one day and he might just be the kind of guy who would be more than happy to pass on advice to you.
 
Trust me I was more diplomatic than what I put in the original post. My comment sums up what I said in a less professional manner than what was actually said.
 
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****Warning, controversial opinion ;)****

Never quite see the panick over wedding photography........


When we got married we got a pro to cover it (he was paid well).

My Parents + the In-laws bought albums but we never bothered. We've got a set of 6x4 proofs somewhere but they've not been looked at since then (20 years this year)


I've still got the wife so who needs photos :D
 
Lynton said:
firstly not a wedding photographer............. so cannot really comment from a professionals point of view, but a £20 deposit?

Get real!

Suppose you were getting married and I dunno say £500 for the tog with a £20 deposit, then a half decent amateur came along (and as a B&G on a budget) offering their wares for free... would you lose £20 to save £480? I guess so.


form experience when we got married and I am sure the same today........ something like a 30% non refundable deposit, and the balance 4 weeks before....... (or something like that)

Saying that it was a well known local professional company (been going years and well known throughout S Norfolk) and it was 5 years back £800 for 2 togs for 5 hours, and album etc........

Pretty much every semi-pro / pro nowadays works on a NFD/booking fee and balance up front
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you are right on two counts highlighted


as for paying £500.00 for a tog them days are numbered, the prices he works round are £150.00 £250.00 max but turn over is/was good

leave the pro's to squabble over the fat wallet weddings.


Merc ....getting real(y)
 
whatever Mark,

My point WAS and still IS........... a deposit of £20, you might as well not bother taking a deposit at all......... in the grand scheme of costs of 99.9% of weddings, £20 really is insignificant...........

I also know some people who work around the £200-300 bracket, images on a disc etc, do what you want with them..... however all 3 of them get the cash up front..........:shrug:

either by a "booking fee" and then balance before, or all in one go, before.


I think you'll also find, most full on wedding togs are up into 4 figures now (including albums etc...........) but this digresses from the original topic of the thread, so a line has to be drawn.........


____________________________________________________________
 
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u8myufo said:
As you say Sarah the comment was a bit naive but then coming from somebody that may not have a clue they can be forgiven. However the reply you gave her was imo not really appropriate. Myself I might have said well that is fair enough and let it go at that. There might be a chance that it falls through for whatever reason with the other guy and she might get back in touch, even at the last minute :shrug: You would then be in a position to up your rate if she could not find anybody else for the job. Without seeing any of the guy`s work then nobody should be passing judgement even if he is doing it for free, after all he is a fellow Photographer. If you do not know him then you might well bump into him one day and he might just be the kind of guy who would be more than happy to pass on advice to you.
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As the OP said, she just wanted a place to rant about it. If you want to be 100% fair then of course judgement shouldn't be placed on the bride or the other photographer (or in anyone in life ever for that matter!)... but if you were the original tog as the OP was it would still be hard not to be ticked off and surely better to bitch about it on the internet with sympathetic strangers than risk upsetting either the bride or the other photographer?

On the subject of wording, the trouble with "booking fee" is that it sounds like an extra charge, whereas "deposit" sounds like it's included. I think you can still call it a deposit but pick the notice period they have to give if they want a refund. Typically this would be the smallest amount of time in which you would still be able to get another booking for the same date. So for the dentist or hairdresser or whatever it's something like 24 hours but weddings are booked further in advance than that so 3 months or 6 months or whatever's reasonable. Maybe with 6 months to go you can get 50% of the deposit back, with 3 months 25% and 1 month before the wedding 0%. (Timescale may be completely inaccurate, I'm not a wedding togger :p)

I know photographers that do this but would be interested in the advice from those that know of whether this could safely be called a deposit (unlike the previous example).
 
I think the thing with actual pro wedding photographers is how well they actually work with people. I was at a launch event a while ago that my company was putting on, and the girl organising it had booked a local photographer. I thought I'd take my camera as well just to get a few shots in addition. I had about 9 hours and know my camera and kit inside out, the paid photographer came in for about 2 hours with his 1D and quite short lenses. It was only a week after when the shots came through that I realised how hard he had worked. He took a shot for example of me during the speaking elements of me looking straight at him, but yet I didn't actually see him. I know he didn't have a load of massive primes with him as I think he came on a bicycle, but in every one of his shots there are natural events going on with the images getting right into the thick of it but somehow he just seemed to blend in really well. In comparison some of my shots would have done - but his were just amazing with colours, composition and everything spot on - no blinks or anything.

So there you go, we paid for a professional and got the invisible Canon man. I would recommend my close family and friends to use him if for any reason they found themselves in North Wales.
 
mercmanuk said:
you are right on two counts highlighted


as for paying £500.00 for a tog them days are numbered, the prices he works round are £150.00 £250.00 max but turn over is/was good

leave the pro's to squabble over the fat wallet weddings.


Merc ....getting real(y)
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*******s, there is plenty of high end work round here (a fair bit of low end work too mind)
 
That's terrible! My cousin got married last year. She spent about 5k on the wedding dress, catering, hotel, etc, but got a friend 'with a great camera' to take the pics for free. They were AWFUL, and the sad thing is that the family think the images are great! Problem is that most people can't tell a good photo from a bad one. What can you do?
 
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