Reached the peak,lock down could start to be eased

[AZ6]

No, you simply ensure that the vulnerable are shielded

Who gets to decide who is 'vulnerable'? We have just a few months worth of information about this virus, how it spreads, who it affects the most, etc. Far too early to be making assumptions based on scant evidence so far. An effective vaccine could be years off yet. We just don't know.

In your case we basically need to keep lockdown till we get a vaccine!

That is the 'best' solution in terms of preventing the spread of the virus, yes. In practical terms, it won't work. Largely because Capitalism.

 

[AZ6]

And what we do is try things in stages, no-one is saying lift everything tomorrow.

So, who goes back to work? Who gets to decide such things?

 

[cambsno]

Who gets to decide who is 'vulnerable'? We have just a few months worth of information about this virus, how it spreads, who it affects the most, etc. Far too early to be making assumptions based on scant evidence so far. An effective vaccine could be years off yet. We just don't know.




That is the 'best' solution in terms of preventing the spread of the virus, yes. In practical terms, it won't work. Largely because Capitalism.

Are you for real? So capitalism is the main reason why we cant be in lockdown for 18 months +??? What about peoples physical and mental health or does that not count? What about the fact that people wont be able to feed their kids or afford to keep a roof over their heads???

As for vulnerable, its pretty clear and consistent the world over. If you have a health condition or are over 65 then you fall into the biggest risk, this goes up massively. If you are healthy and below 40 or 50, then you have no more risk of dying than you do if anything else. I would hardly say 250k+ deaths is scant evidence, its obvious!!!

 

[nilagin]

Do you really think the current shower of s*** care about ordinary working people? All the Masses are to them, are profit generators. This government really couldn't care if millions died. They really, really couldn't. They've already proven that by cutting the NHS to ribbons. But they DO care about protecting their wealth. Sick and dead people can't generate profits. So it's in their interests to keep at least most of them alive. There is more than enough actual wealth in the UK, to provide all the PPE etc needed, all the healthcare needed, and to provide everyone with at least a basic living in terms of rents and mortgages paused (in many cases, suspending those causes no economic damage in the long term anyway), food provided and care for those who need it, for many months, if not years. Have you any idea of how much money is leeched out of us all? Trillions. Quadrillions. Quintillions. All sitting in offshore bank accounts. Funny how UK governments always seem to find money down the back of the sofa when some funny foreign brown people threaten to stop the flow of oil revenue, isn't it? Yet they can't supply NHS and care staff with PPE? Really?

The jobs will still be there; the need for industry and services won't have stopped. The Capitalist machine will continue to rumble on...



You clearly don't even understand basic virology, in spite of the wealth of information available, and you think I'm talking b*****ks?

Bottom line; if this government really cared about us, and wanted to ensure the least damage caused by this virus, it would have acted weeks before it did, and it wouldn't even be talking about easing restrictions until the scientists, you know, those pesky 'experts', said doing so was a good idea. It would have provided ALL NHS, care, delivery etc staff with PPE. The only thing that will affect the decision making process, is what suits the most wealthy. End of.

PPE supply is a global problem, not just a UK problem, my employer is making PPE for the NHS and other countries as well as providing the exact same PPE for it's employees. Plus my employer also has a factory out in China, which returned to work as soon as their lockdown was lifted. They know exactly what precautions are necessary to protect employees in the workplace.

People are already losing their jobs, so how you can claim jobs will still be there is b*****ks.
But don't worry those that are fortunate enough to still have a job will carry on bailing you out.

 

[AZ6]

Are you for real? So capitalism is the main reason why we cant be in lockdown for 18 months +???

Pretty much, yes. But you're not thinking about this properly; I'm not talking about what is realistic or practicable, I'm talking about what medical science is telling us is the BEST option if we want to stop the spread of the virus. Which is immediate and total lockdown. Obviously we could never have had this. We'd all starve. But the best compromise solution is sme way from what this government really wants, which is all the plebs back to work generating profit. Geddit?

Right.

Medical Science™ is still telling us it's better to remain isolated as much as possible, and to limit all activity other than what is absolutely essential. Where are all the scientists and health experts telling us it's ok to lift restrictions? They aren't. Because that would be massively irresponsible of them. Some are grudgingly saying we could EASE restrictions a BIT, but to remain cautious. This assumes we're all taking extra special care regarding hygiene, and wearing proper PPE etc. Which people really, really aren't.

Our government clearly want things to get back to normal as soon as possible, to keep money flowing. Do you genuinely believe that Boris and co really give a s*** about you, as an individual? Or indeed anyone else outside of their cosy little cabal? Do you? You can stop pondering that question- they don't. They really, really, really don't. Ditto them caring about the sick and most vulnerable in our society.

What about peoples physical and mental health or does that not count?

To this government? No. Quite obviously. As long as there are enough plebs to continue working to generate money, that's all that matters. The sick and mentally ill are instantly dispensable. Why, they're nothing but a 'burden' anyway...

What about the fact that people wont be able to feed their kids or afford to keep a roof over their heads???

I've already explained how this can easily be dealt with for many months, if not years to come.

So, as I've spent time answering your questions, please answer some of mine. Starting with this one:

So, who goes back to work? Who gets to decide such things?

Thanks.

 

[AZ6]

People are already losing their jobs, so how you can claim jobs will still be there is b*****ks.

So there will no longer be a need for people to do the same jobs? Right. Please explain why. But actually; please just have a THINK about all this. Instead of jumping to ill thought out conclusions.

But don't worry those that are fortunate enough to still have a job will carry on bailing you out.

So people WILL have jobs to go back to. There you go; you see, you agree with me after all. Excellent.

 

[nilagin]

So, who goes back to work? Who gets to decide such things?

Have you been living under a rock, or just unable to figure it out for yourself.
The only people who have had to stop work are pub, restaurant theatre, leisure industry and non essential retail staff. Maybe a few others, but everyone else unable to work from home could have carried on working.
I was only supposed to have been off for a fortnight over the Easter weekend, but my employer decided to extend it further so it could put in measures within the workplace to keep everyone safe from infection. Some of the workforce in some areas only had the Easter weekend off and worked all the way through.
So only people who work in places likely to have large gatherings and difficulty in not having close contact will be the last to return. If companies take measures like my employer has, the only problem is going to be people using public transport.

 

[nilagin]

Pretty much, yes. But you're not thinking about this properly; I'm not talking about what is realistic or practicable, I'm talking about what medical science is telling us is the BEST option if we want to stop the spread of the virus. Which is immediate and total lockdown. Obviously we could never have had this. We'd all starve. But the best compromise solution is sme way from what this government really wants, which is all the plebs back to work generating profit. Geddit?

Right.

Medical Science™ is still telling us it's better to remain isolated as much as possible, and to limit all activity other than what is absolutely essential. Where are all the scientists and health experts telling us it's ok to lift restrictions? They aren't. Because that would be massively irresponsible of them. Some are grudgingly saying we could EASE restrictions a BIT, but to remain cautious. This assumes we're all taking extra special care regarding hygiene, and wearing proper PPE etc. Which people really, really aren't.

Our government clearly want things to get back to normal as soon as possible, to keep money flowing. Do you genuinely believe that Boris and co really give a s*** about you, as an individual? Or indeed anyone else outside of their cosy little cabal? Do you? You can stop pondering that question- they don't. They really, really, really don't. Ditto them caring about the sick and most vulnerable in our society.



To this government? No. Quite obviously. As long as there are enough plebs to continue working to generate money, that's all that matters. The sick and mentally ill are instantly dispensable. Why, they're nothing but a 'burden' anyway...




I've already explained how this can easily be dealt with for many months, if not years to come.

So, as I've spent time answering your questions, please answer some of mine. Starting with this one:





Thanks.

What a load of crap.

 

[AZ6]

This is funny:

Have you been living under a rock, or just unable to figure it out for yourself.

Then, right:

The only people who have had to stop work are pub, restaurant theatre, leisure industry and non essential retail staff. Maybe a few others, but everyone else unable to work from home could have carried on working.

Absolutely no idea. What's it like under that rock mate? Moist and warm?

So only people who work in places likely to have large gatherings and difficulty in not having close contact will be the last to return. If companies take measures like my employer has, the only problem is going to be people using public transport.

So how are you going to deal with that then? Seeing as how everybody is going to need to get to work?

What a load of crap.

Hello Donald.

 

[cambsno]

Pretty much, yes. But you're not thinking about this properly; I'm not talking about what is realistic or practicable, I'm talking about what medical science is telling us is the BEST option if we want to stop the spread of the virus. Which is immediate and total lockdown. Obviously we could never have had this. We'd all starve. But the best compromise solution is sme way from what this government really wants, which is all the plebs back to work generating profit. Geddit?

Right.

Medical Science™ is still telling us it's better to remain isolated as much as possible, and to limit all activity other than what is absolutely essential. Where are all the scientists and health experts telling us it's ok to lift restrictions? They aren't. Because that would be massively irresponsible of them. Some are grudgingly saying we could EASE restrictions a BIT, but to remain cautious. This assumes we're all taking extra special care regarding hygiene, and wearing proper PPE etc. Which people really, really aren't.

Our government clearly want things to get back to normal as soon as possible, to keep money flowing. Do you genuinely believe that Boris and co really give a s*** about you, as an individual? Or indeed anyone else outside of their cosy little cabal? Do you? You can stop pondering that question- they don't. They really, really, really don't. Ditto them caring about the sick and most vulnerable in our society.



To this government? No. Quite obviously. As long as there are enough plebs to continue working to generate money, that's all that matters. The sick and mentally ill are instantly dispensable. Why, they're nothing but a 'burden' anyway...




I've already explained how this can easily be dealt with for many months, if not years to come.

So, as I've spent time answering your questions, please answer some of mine. Starting with this one:





Thanks.

The government basically decide!

Ok, so we all get 18 months off work, fully paid by the government! Where does all that money come from, and you still havent addressed the mental illness and physical distress this will cause - grandparents not seeing grandkids for 18 months...

Of course Boris doesnt care about us but if we dont get back to normality (or as close to as possible) then we all suffer!

Medical Science also tells us not to smoke or eat bad foods. Maybe we should ban all those. It will also tell us that enforcing a 20mph speed limit will probably cut deaths to single figure... lets enforce that too then!

As the CMO has said, we have to balance things, and now is a good time to start?

 

[nilagin]

So there will no longer be a need for people to do the same jobs? Right. Please explain why. But actually; please just have a THINK about all this. Instead of jumping to ill thought out .

There are thousands of jobs that basically rely on people having spare cash other than just living.
A reduction of people eating in restaurants will mean less staff required, if the restaurant can afford to stay in business anyway. Same goes for pubs, gyms, health clubs. Car industry, people have less money, less cars will be bought, less sales people and administrative staff required in the dealerships. Most car manufacturers run a three shift work pattern in their production plants, lower sales will likely mean a cut to a 2 shift work pattern, one whole shift loses their jobs. It goes on and on, furniture manufacturers and stores, any retail shop for that matter.
Seems you need a lot of time to think about it. People who aren't paranoid, butcapable of logical thought don't need much time to think about it at all.
You obviously like being a drain on the economy and taking handouts, personally I haven't had to take a handout in over 40yrs of employment, I much prefer paying my own way.

 

[cambsno]

So there will no longer be a need for people to do the same jobs? Right. Please explain why. But actually; please just have a THINK about all this. Instead of jumping to ill thought out conclusions.




So people WILL have jobs to go back to. There you go; you see, you agree with me after all. Excellent.

Some will, but what about the 3,000 Virgin staff for example???? Youth unemployment for example is predicted to grow by 600k to over a million!!!

 

[mikew]

Over 5,000 new infections yesterday over 500 deaths, looks like time to ease restrictions to me, say the people that don't mix with ordinary folk.

 

[nilagin]

Over 5,000 new infections yesterday over 500 deaths, looks like time to ease restrictions to me, say the people that don't mix with ordinary folk.

The numbers are askew. They are just the numbers announced as the figures come in. Some figures get delayed and don't always come in when they should. Some of the infections and deaths will have been from days prior to yesterday.

 

[mikew]

The numbers are askew. They are just the numbers announced as the figures come in. Some figures get delayed and don't always come in when they should. Some of the infections and deaths will have been from days prior to yesterday.

Ok but if it was half of that it would be a lot

 

[cambsno]

Ok but if it was half of that it would be a lot

There is a 2 week lag. Even if we all went about our business as normal from today, the death rate would still come down for a while. Also by relaxing some restrictions will make very little difference.

 

[Gremlin]

I get this a lot where I live, with mainly over 80s residents
Many that live on their own are hoping things ease up so they can get out a bit more
to just sit out in the fresh air somewhere away from here, some are already taking advantage of being
allowed to drive for exercise and looking far happier for it, not everyone has cars
Others that have received the isolation letters don't want it to happen, not that it will make a lot of
difference to them as they won't be allowed to mix.
If the rules change it doesn't mean anyone has to go out, it just means that those that want to can
and if they open garden centres, can get the things they need to spend more time in their gardens
which are probably weed free and immaculate by now
Is it wrong to allow those that can have a bit of freedom, we've be locked in since the 23rd March
there's nothing to stop people staying in if that's what they chose it's called self preservation, we all
have to make the decisions that are right for us when things change

 

[Garry Edwards]

My take on this is that the government has acted irresponsibly and wrongly - again - by announcing in advance that uncle Boris will make an announcement on Sunday, they should have kept quiet about it until it happened, The inevitable result is that a lot of people have assumed that the danger is now over and they have already gone back to their old ways.

For me, it will make little or no difference. I'm old and I'm an insulin-dependent diabetic, so very much in the at risk category. I'm going to take all possible precautions for as long as it takes, which will probably not be until there is an effective vaccine and / or effective treatment. Not for myself, because I've already exceeded my life expectation for a diabetic, but for my family who, for some reason, seem to want to put off getting their inheritance.

I can manage perfectly well on my own, I can get virtually everything I want via the internet and only need to go to the supermarket every two weeks. I'm there when they open, whilst most other people are doing other things, so as safe as possible.

I'm not going to let mental health risks get to me, I'm keeping myself busy and I can keep in touch with family and friends via Skype, Zoom, Discord and my phone.

I'm paying much less tax now than I did when I was working, the government has to pay my state retirement pension and an insurance company has to pay another pension, they would both be better off if I took avoidable risks but I don't include making them happy in my list of priorities.

Other people will of course be in different situations and many absolutely do need to get back to some kind of normality, but in my view people also need to accept that things have changed and they are very likely to be worse off financially for many years. Well, I think that's tough, but it's better to be poor than to risk depriving the family by taking unnecessary risks.

 

[nilagin]

My take on this is that the government has acted irresponsibly and wrongly - again - by announcing in advance that uncle Boris will make an announcement on Sunday, they should have kept quiet about it until it happened, The inevitable result is that a lot of people have assumed that the danger is now over and they have already gone back to their old ways.

They have to reassess the situation every 3 weeks by law. They should have made their announcement yesterday. Delaying for a few more days gives them more data and also they can gauge peoples reaction to today's Bank Holiday.

 

[Mr Bump]

Over 5,000 new infections yesterday over 500 deaths, looks like time to ease restrictions to me, say the people that don't mix with ordinary folk.

yeah that's the real truth here, we are nowhere near releasing any lockdown, I think at least another 2 weeks as we are and see how we are doing.

The thing is what we have in the UK isn't even clse to the type of lockdown in Spain and France and it took 7 weeks to get it under control.
for those 7 weeks people were not even allowed out of there houses.

UK needs to get real.

 

[TheBigYin]

I got notification last week that our "working from home" situation was going to be continuing "until the end of July 2020 at the earliest". Now, if the NHS is taking that approach with it's own Accounts, Finance, Wages, Procurement and Other Admin functions, it's going to be a marathon rather than a sprint...

In all honesty, I'd happily work from home from now until my retirement, but I think at some point in the next 11 years i'd have to go in and get a replacement computer, even with the NHS's propensity to keep running obsolete kit. Came as quite a shock to be Issued my home working kit and be upgraded from a Windows Vista desktop to a rather nice W10 laptop to be honest!

 

[AZ6]

Having been mysteriously suspended for a short period, without any explanation, I can only assume that if might have had something to do with possibly upsetting some sensibilities on here. So, I shall refrain from posting on this issue now. But I do feel I have a right to respond to this:

You obviously like being a drain on the economy and taking handouts

For the record (not that anyone on here would know anything about me); I don't take a single penny from the state in 'handouts', I enjoy access (for what it is) to healthcare, same as anyone else, and benefit from everything else that we all do. In fact, I actually pay more into the state coffers than I am legally obliged to. This current situation has affected me economically, but only slightly. I have no 'job' to have to get back to. In short, I am extremely fortunate. I can, however, empathise with millions of others who need to pay their bills, feed their families etc. Many people I know are in this boat. I accept there has to be a coherent and properly considered plan to help people continue with their lives. We need our economy to continue, in order to survive. But we also need to balance this with a need to protect as many people as is possible, given the circumstances. It is now clear that the government has failed to act appropriately, and that we are not currently in a situation where restrictions can be lifted. I found scenes of partying on Friday, extremely disturbing. I am glad that common sense has prevailed, and that the demands of Capitalism have not overruled medical advice. We really need to be 'right' on this; the 1918 'Flu killed an estimated 3-5 million worldwide; the second wave killed from 25-100 million.

We have the resources to withstand a few months at least, with current lockdown conditions (which are arguably inadequate anyway...). So let's at least wait a little bit longer, before rushing back into a situation we have no clue about.

Peace.

 

[woof woof]

It is now clear that the government has failed to act appropriately,

What would you have done differently?

 

[Gremlin]

Closed the borders a lot earlier and not worry about who gets upset. We all saw the news images of plane loads of sick people coming back here to spread the infection.

Seems we still have boat loads still trying to get here, closing the borders won't stop them and it seems
the countries they are coming from aren't doing much either

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-52605310

 

[AZ6]

What would you have done differently?

You know what, having been banned for whatever period it was, with no indication exactly as to why, I'm no longer willing to enter into discussion regarding this. Sorry.

 

[Garry Edwards]

Seems we still have boat loads still trying to get here, closing the borders won't stop them and it seems
the countries they are coming from aren't doing much either

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-52605310

And the illegal immigrants aren't being quarantined or even tested either, they're just being bailed to report back to immigration at a later date, and required to sign a form saying that they don't have any symptoms, which is ridiculous. What makes it even worse is that these people don't have the means to keep away from other people even if they want to. The government instructed local authorities to provide accommodation for all homeless people but this doesn't apply to illegal immigrants because they don't have the right of access to public funds.

Nearly all of the illegal immigrants do in fact get "caught" because they want to. Those coming from France for example, are generally stopped by the French coastguard boats who ask them if they need help. They refuse that help because they don't want to be taken back to France, but as soon as they reach British territorial waters they fire a red flare and are rescued by us, and taken to Britain. But, once they land, they are quickly allowed to spread the virus. It would be easy to prevent this, but would involve using expensive resources, so doesn't get done.

 

[woof woof]

You know what, having been banned for whatever period it was, with no indication exactly as to why, I'm no longer willing to enter into discussion regarding this. Sorry.

That's ok but rest assured my post wasn't a trap of any sort. I'm just interested as there seem to be a lot of people complaining, and I'm not necessarily just picking on you, about things being done "wrong."

I'd have imposed stricter measures much sooner and I've been in favour of more abilities and capabilities being kept in the UK for a long time but my politics would be as popular as poo poo as many people just don't seem to like being told what to do by a government they hate on site. Maybe what the population will stand for at least has to be considered otherwise things would get messy very quickly. Sadly what the population would stand for probably means what will melt facebook and twitter and what the media will report these days.

 

[tarric]

My take on this is that the government has acted irresponsibly and wrongly - again - by announcing in advance that uncle Boris will make an announcement on Sunday, they should have kept quiet about it until it happened, The inevitable result is that a lot of people have assumed that the danger is now over and they have already gone back to their old ways.

I must be a little more cynical, personally I think that by announcing in advance that he will make an announcement on Sunday it has taken peoples eye of all the real story of the mistake's and disaster's they call a plan to deal with this crisis, just one example the much vaunted PPE supplies from Turkey www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52569364 hardly even caused a stir in the news because all the news and papers have been full of is the end to lockdown www.thepaperboy.com/uk/2020/05/07/front-pages-archive.cfm

 

[woof woof]

I must be a little more cynical, personally I think that by announcing in advance that he will make an announcement on Sunday it has taken peoples eye of all the real story of the mistake's and disaster's they call a plan to deal with this crisis, just one example the much vaunted PPE supplies from Turkey www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52569364 hardly even caused a stir in the news because all the news and papers have been full of is the end to lockdown www.thepaperboy.com/uk/2020/05/07/front-pages-archive.cfm

ppe seems to have almost fallen out of the news.

Did anyone catch that story of an mp who claimed to have been sacked from a part time caring job over whistle blowing about ppe?

Spoiler... one possible other view is that the mp is virtue signalling whilst hardly ever putting a shift in and those in charge of the stock cupboard had a different view. The truth is a matter of opinion these days.

 

[nilagin]

I must be a little more cynical, personally I think that by announcing in advance that he will make an announcement on Sunday it has taken peoples eye of all the real story of the mistake's and disaster's they call a plan to deal with this crisis,

As I posted earlier. The government has to review the situation every 3 weeks. The review would have been announced on Thursday, but they said they would delay the announcement until Thursday. Fairly sure they had said this prior to any supposed disasters.

 

[mikew]

We didnt need lockdown today at Cleethorpes

 

[tarric]

I must be a little more cynical, personally I think that by announcing in advance that he will make an announcement on Sunday it has taken peoples eye of all the real story of the mistake's and disaster's they call a plan to deal with this crisis, just one example the much vaunted PPE supplies from Turkey www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52569364 hardly even caused a stir in the news because all the news and papers have been full of is the end to lockdown www.thepaperboy.com/uk/2020/05/07/front-pages-archive.cfm

tarric said:
I must be a little more cynical, personally I think that by announcing in advance that he will make an announcement on Sunday it has taken peoples eye of all the real story of the mistake's and disaster's they call a plan to deal with this crisis,

As I posted earlier. The government has to review the situation every 3 weeks. The review would have been announced on Thursday, but they said they would delay the announcement until Thursday. Fairly sure they had said this prior to any supposed disasters.

I think I should really just put you on ignore half quotes and just some waffle that doesn't even make sense but then I think to myself why should I deprive myself of the gift that just keeps giving.

 

[nilagin]

tarric said:
I must be a little more cynical, personally I think that by announcing in advance that he will make an announcement on Sunday it has taken peoples eye of all the real story of the mistake's and disaster's they call a plan to deal with this crisis,




I think I should really just put you on ignore half quotes and just some waffle that doesn't even make sense but then I think to myself why should I deprive myself of the gift that just keeps giving.

Half quotes?
You're right, the gift of actually learning something instead of the bulĺs*** you believe in the media.

 

[mikew]

Well we have the road map for getting out of lockdown, my biggest worry is not with the plan as such just it is starting too soon, I would have like to have seen two more weeks of dropping numbers in deaths and infections.

 

[AZ6]

 

[nilagin]

View attachment 278626

0.25% of the UK population read the Sunday Sport and by the time of its demise it was down to almost half that.
You can worry yourself about it if you like.

 

[mikew]

In my little area (North East Lincolnshire) we have had a low infection rate 143 at the moment, i take this as a sign today i could go out and run a low risk of coming in contact with a carrier, but with the visitors that will inevitably come to the coast i doubt that will last.
Lockdown needed easing but the travel anywhere is a major step too far IMO.

 

[cambsno]

In my little area (North East Lincolnshire) we have had a low infection rate 143 at the moment, i take this as a sign today i could go out and run a low risk of coming in contact with a carrier, but with the visitors that will inevitably come to the coast i doubt that will last.
Lockdown needed easing but the travel anywhere is a major step too far IMO.

We have thought about a day out but with everything shut there is a big element of “what’s the point”? The longer this goes on for though the bigger the issue when things are lifted as people will flock to do things they have not been allowed to do for months.

 

[Nod]

It'll be interesting to see how many caravans appear down here.

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

It'll be interesting to see how many caravans appear down here.

Had to trundle over to Marsh Barton this morning. Not only is it quiet but everyone on the road seemed polite and restrained. What planet am I on and how did I get here???