Really interesting copyright dispute.

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Tom
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#1
Just came across this.
A fairly large metal band called Arch Enemy (now retitled art enemy by many) has caused a big copyright row after banning a photographer from all their future shows and festival appearances after he requested a clothing brand remove his photo from thier advert.

Short version.
Press tog took a photo at a festival of thier performance and shared it on his instagram
A clothing company who sponsors the lead singer of the band, used said photo on thier Instagram as an advert for thier store.
Press tog contacted them asking to either remove the advert, or donate €100 to a Dutch charity for its use
The manager of the band contacted the press tog and told him to back down and banned him from all thier shows and also sent his name to all promotors and booking agents thereby trying to destroy his business. She also did this in a very catty, nasty way, not business like at all.

What they didn’t know is he is actually an attorney and they’ve created a massive backlash in the metal community. Their fans are pretty much abandoning them and I imagine pirate downloads of thier works has increased dramatically. Thier Facebook is being bombarded with negative comments, thier YouTube comments sections have all been closed and the band members personal social media accounts are all under attack from angry people.
Here is a video explaining all from the photographer in question.

View: https://youtu.be/iW1TRQeo7gk


I’ve personally never liked the band and always thought the current singer and the manager (who was the ex singer) were arrogant nasty priced of work. Seems that was justified as it was those two behind this whole thing. They’ve had ample opportunities to make things right, but they’ve stuck with it and are happy that the photographer hasn’t been paid.
What’s ironic is the band and in particular the singer are ardent supporters of Anti piracy campaigns and have posted many times about how artists deserve to be paid for thier work. I guess just not photographers.
 
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#2
Just came across this.
A fairly large metal band called Arch Enemy (now retitled art enemy by many) has caused a big copyright row after banning a photographer from all their future shows and festival appearances after he requested a clothing brand remove his photo from thier advert.

Short version.
Press tog took a photo at a festival of thier performance and shared it on his instagram
A clothing company who sponsors the lead singer of the band, used said photo on thier Instagram as an advert for thier store.
Press tog contacted them asking to either remove the advert, or donate €100 to a Dutch charity for its use
The manager of the band contacted the press tog and told him to back down and banned him from all thier shows and also sent his name to all promotors and booking agents thereby trying to destroy his business. She also did this in a very catty, nasty way, not business like at all.

What they didn’t know is he is actually an attorney and they’ve created a massive backlash in the metal community. Their fans are pretty much abandoning them and I imagine pirate downloads of thier works has increased dramatically. Thier Facebook is being bombarded with negative comments, thier YouTube comments sections have all been closed and the band members personal social media accounts are all under attack from angry people.
Here is a video explaining all from the photographer in question.

View: https://youtu.be/iW1TRQeo7gk


I’ve personally never liked the band and always thought the current singer and the manager (who was the ex singer) were arrogant nasty priced of work. Seems that was justified as it was those two behind this whole thing. They’ve had ample opportunities to make things right, but they’ve stuck with it and are happy that the photographer hasn’t been paid.
What’s ironic is the band and in particular the singer are ardent supporters of Anti piracy campaigns and have posted many times about how artists deserve to be paid for thier work. I guess just not photographers.
The bit I have highlighted I ma sure I have seen remarked on about other music "artists" and on here at TP I think I recall.

This one sounds like a music version of a bridezilla!

PS good for the photographer to have the knowledge and cojones to take to the appropriate level and make the strongest message into that community that photographic copyright should be respected. NB you never know it might rub off onto those 'fans' reacting so positively that they also must act responsibly about imagery copyright :)
 
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KIPAX
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#3
Press tog took a photo at a festival
-------8<------------------------

What they didn’t know is he is actually an attorney .
He didn't even want paying for the picture and started all this..

I don't think either party come out smelling of roses...


PS A press photogrpaher is someone who makes the majority of his living from press photogrpahy.. this is the criteria for being issued a press pass.....
 
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Julian Elliott
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#4
As someone that has had massive problems with image theft I say good on him for calling out the clothing company. I would have said that maybe there was something in the contract about the artists image rights but he covered that.

Copyright infringement is a BIG problem and the attitude you get from people who steal your work whether intentional or not is breathtaking.

One I had one two weeks ago was "well, we found it on the internet and all images on the net are free to use." No problems there then...
 
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#5
This was kicked off by the band's manager. From past experience, metal band managers are notorious for using bullying tactics to get their way - regardless that they know their argument is wrong. One particular manager of a very famous metal band is well known for this, and apparently he goes into a huge sulk when he doesn't get his way! I remember an encounter I had with a manager of a legendary British metal band, who is well known for her control freakery. I had made a polite comment on the band's forum about the band's vocalist pulling out of an interview because of a cold. She sent me this completely over-the-top message, telling me she was going to do this that and the other. None of her threats came to fruition.
 
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#6
Fairly typical of metal band management sadly.
I had a similar thing with the management of an international Michael Jackson tribute act. They accused me of all sorts and claimed they owned copyright on all images of their artist...A quick message to the promoter and a grovelling apology was in the next post! :)
 
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#7
It's amazing how a fellow "artist" would have complete disregard over a) copyright and b) compensating the photographer for their work.

Emailing industry contacts just reeks of having a massive hissy fit and an ego that needs checking.
 
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#8
It's amazing how a fellow "artist" would have complete disregard over a) copyright and b) compensating the photographer for their work.

Emailing industry contacts just reeks of having a massive hissy fit and an ego that needs checking.
Unfortunately not being compensated is par for the course these days. As mentioned above, having been involved with a number of copyright cases this year I have all the excuses under the sun. It is rife and it isn't going to get any better at all.
 
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Roger
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#12
I actually feel sorry for the clothing woman, she got terrible advice from the band, her actions since in apologising and making a donation seam exemplary as does the photographer's who clearly did not want to see her go out of business.
 
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#13
I actually feel sorry for the clothing woman, she got terrible advice from the band, her actions since in apologising and making a donation seam exemplary as does the photographer's who clearly did not want to see her go out of business.
I agree she is almost completely blameless in this whole situation (her one mistake was getting AE's manager Angela Gossow involved in the first place) and I feel very sorry for her. Hopefully this thing will die down and she can re-open her business in a few months.
 
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#14
Tiny thing in the response that isn't quite true. Reposting of images isn't technically copyright infringement. It all comes down to how it is being taken and reposted.

In the UK, and Europe I believe, copyright is automatic and anyone wanting to use an image has to ask the permission of the copyright holder. Copyright is automatic for us and doesn't need registering.

In the USA there is something called fair usage which goes down a rabbit hole as to what is actually fair usage. But you can also, if you wish, register your photos with the copyright office in the USA. Anyone in the World can actually register their photos with this office. What use is that? Well two. If you happen to find an infringement of your photo you can demand two things. The first is the lost license fee which you can pretty much times by ten. the second is if you have registered your photo with the USA copyright office and the offence takes place in the USA then you can also demand a share of profits resulting from the infringed use.
 
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#15
She reposted it with an advert for her brand of clothes that the singer was wearing.. I think that borders over the edge of fair use. She is using the photographers image for a commcerial advert..

I don’t blame her, she was naive in using it and should have dealt with it herself, instead of passing it off to the band. This whole thing was caused by the band manger Angela getting her arse on and not backing down.

Seems to me, now she isn’t the singer, she has to force herself to the forefront in other ways, good or bad.
 
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#16
She reposted it with an advert for her brand of clothes that the singer was wearing.. I think that borders over the edge of fair use. She is using the photographers image for a commcerial advert..

I don’t blame her, she was naive in using it and should have dealt with it herself, instead of passing it off to the band. This whole thing was caused by the band manger Angela getting her arse on and not backing down.

Seems to me, now she isn’t the singer, she has to force herself to the forefront in other ways, good or bad.
Oh don't worry, I'm fully aware that it crossed a line! After sorting out over 100 case or so of infringements across the world, believe me when I say I know where the lines are.

It is also, frustratingly enough, that a lot of people simply don't know about copyright infringement when it comes to the business they either work in or own. It is only this year that Google has put a notice on the image search page that say "images maybe subject to copyright" but the next issue is that if you click on the link it takes to USA copyright law.
 
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TCR4x4

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#18
She’s digging herself a bigger and bigger hole.
The amount of lies in that statement is quite staggering, and her Facebook page where she posted this in hopes of getting people on her side has seen though it.
She really neeeds to shut up.

Sadly she has ruined this clothing girls buisness and has massively damaged the band.. I’m suprised the band are sticking by her tbh.

Dear whoever is interested in the subject,

I am reacting to the bully rally this photographer has set lose with his well crafted (he took 6 months to get it done and released), well timed mash up of different subjects at hand.

The details often get lost in the emotion of the narrative - and the narrative is often controlled by who presents the story first. Mr photographer threw a bunch of different things into one pot and highly emotionalized it. Lets differentiate:

1)

Copyright issue. Arch Enemy did not post any of his pictures, no breach of copyright there.
Alissa only re-tagged his image and got written permission of said photographer and actually got asked to re-post, after she fearfully removed the said photo. She refrained from doing so.
Conclusion: Zero involvement oft he band or Alissa in any of the addressed matters. Leave Arch Enemy and Alissa out of it.

2)

Thunderball clothing / Marta: The lady re-posted the picture and said ‘thank you for wearing my custom made outfit’ along with it. Copyright breach, as this can be interpreted as commercial use. Not intentionally, because she wasn’t aware of that fine line - a lot of people on the internet are not actually. Anything you re-post is a breach of copyright actually. She removed as well immediately. She did not react to the donation request because she was not sure if its scam. Donating to a cancer research fund is not going to buy her the rights to use the photo commercially. Only a paid invoice to said photographer would do. So why didn’t he just invoice the 500 EUR and went ahead and donated it to said charity? That would have been much more transparent in every aspect.

The internet hate campaign has destroyed Marta’s business – all existing customers have cancelled their orders and/or returned their orders. She has received numerous death threads, accusations of being a Nazi and worse. She has closed her shop she built up for 8 years over this. Is mistake really that severe to justify this? NO. Is it justified to destroy an artist over this? NO.

3)

Angela Gossow, management:

This is an unfortunate situation and a private business conversation that was never meant for public consumption (unethical and contrary to the code of conduct for European lawyers) was being abused for this campaign. I was doing my position in my efforts to aggressively represent and protect my client and her business partner. I’m sorry that this has been made public and the issues are now misconstrued. I am personally shocked by the fact a business dispute turned into such a destructive wave of hate.

The claim I had him blacklisted with all agents, festivals etc is false! I did inform my circle of people I do not want him in the Arch Enemy photo pit again. I did not ask any promoters, festivals, magazines or whoever to ban him. Mr. photographer, give me one person who has removed you from their payroll because of me. Nobody? Thank you.

Why I changed some words in my previous posts – I received a legal letter from said Mr. photographer asking me to, otherwise he would pursue me legally for my wordings. The same happened to Alissa and Jeremy Saffer, who took his entire post down. So those going out on the fence defending us are being silenced. Freedom of speech? No, I don’t think so. I am sure I will have to edit some of this post as well because I expect to receive a legal letter from him again within the next 24 hours. Just saying.

Oh, and I took away the word sheep because those people who damaged Marta beyond repair, who are threatening Alissa and me in very serious ways are not sheep – they are much worse. They are bullies.

We wish to move on from this and wish Mr Photographer the best with the career.

You are welcome to discuss on my facebook page – no comments disabled. I will not tolerate any threats concerning my person, my family and my friends. These will be pursued.

Thank you for your time to read this.

Angela Gossow

PS – here is Marta’s statement:

STATEMENT 30/12/2018 - UPDATE / THE END OF THUNDERBALL CLOTHING
As many of you seems to follow this story, here's an update, and a final statement (you can see my previous statement and an apology from December 28 in my previous post).
The photographer, J. Salmeron, accepted my apology for reposting the photo he took, without having his permission, and as this was his request, I made a donation to the charity organization of his choice (the Dutch Cancer Society). I believe we can say this ends the dispute between us.
However, as I'm not able to handle the amount of hate and threats that I received and keep on receiving, I decided to do what I think is best in this situation. To end the being known as Thunderball Clothing (it's hard to use a word "company" here, as since day one it was just one person - me). I apologise for not being strong enough, and for not being next Internet hero that keep on saying "haters gonna hate". Within last 2 days I received literally hundreds of comments and messages that I'm a whore, a nazi, a communist, a worthless c***, and that I either should quickly die, or that I should kill myself. There is no anger in me, and I apologise everyone that felt hurt or upset by this situation. Anyway, there is no Thunderball Clothing anymore. You won.
Marta Gabriel, Thunderball Clothing
 
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