Beginner Rear display brightness setting in general

r1flyguy

r1flyguy

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Hi All

Just a quick question

I seem to keep making the same mistake and wondering if their is a happy medium.

I seem to favour late evening photos and in the rear preview the photos look 'ok' (650D)

I'm shooting with a 24-104 at f4 mainly and low shutter speeds, no flash as generally its street photography I shoot and mainly off the cuff.

I rarely use the histogram which i appreciate is stupid as the photos on the display look ok, I shoot in raw and process later either in elements or just iPhoto.

When i download the photos, they are very dark and the processing requirements of increasing the exposure creates a lot of noise.

So, is there a happy medium or do you suggest i set the display brightness to half instead of full or check the histogram more often.

I know it seems like basic mistakes but just want someone to confirm my errors and give me a base setting to work from for evening photos

If you require any further info to make a comment please don't hesitate to ask.

TIA

Gary
 
Check the histogram more often.. That's what it's there for!
 
Set the display brightness to half way up the scale and see if you get a better idea of the correct exposure when looking at it and use the histogram. If in any doubt about the exposure, bracket with a few shots to ensure you get at least on that's exposed correctly.
 
TCR4x4 said:
Check the histogram more often.. That's what it's there for!
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Do you run the display together then in general, photo with histogram visible? The reason I haven't is because the photo size is very small so the detail is not great.

If shooting off the cuff I don't usually have time to check the photo, histogram and quality before the 'moment' passes

:)
 
PMN said:
Hi Gary,

First thing's first - what mode are you shooting in? I'm assuming if you're getting a lot of very dark photos you're in manual? If so how are you metering the exposure before you take the shot?
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That made me laugh as your right on the money :)

Yes Manual mode,

Honestly I use the Mk1 eyeball to guess an initial exposure setting and go from there, A quick test shot hoping I'm near what i want and adjust quickly if I have time to get the shot/exposure i want/need.

I appreciate thats possibly not a good way to do it but I am learning.......... slowly :)
 
r1flyguy said:
Honestly I use the Mk1 eyeball to guess an initial exposure setting and go from there
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And there be your problem. :)

The meter in your camera is there for a reason! Using it isn't cheating, nor is using modes like program auto, aperture priority or shutter priority - these things are tools and they exist to help you get your exposure right. You've paid for the camera, what's the point in using it if you're throwing away the vast majority of your photos?

At the risk of sounding slightly patronising (which is in no way my intention), are you familiar with camera metering and what it does?
 
Your not patronising :)

I wouldn't have asked the question had I been easily offended. I'm here to learn and theres no better people to learn from than the TP collective

I 'think' I know how it works but agree, I could be better aquainted with how it works to better effect.
 
r1flyguy said:
Your not patronising :)

I wouldn't have asked the question had I been easily offended. I'm here to learn and theres no better people to learn from than the TP collective

I 'think' I know how it works but agree, I could be better aquainted with how it works to better effect.
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In that case I'd very much recommend getting out of manual and into a mode like P or Av. The more you shoot the more you'll start to see the choices for exposure the camera is making, you'll then be able to look at the results and decide whether it's what you're after. When you start getting a bit more familiar with things you'll start tweaking the settings to get what you want - the only difference will be you'll know what you're tweaking and why.

To be honest I don't really see the need to use full manual mode on a DSLR (and I spend a lot of time shooting with fully manual film cameras so I'm more than used to working in manual). Once you start getting to know your camera's meter and you know the effects aperture, shutter speed and ISO have on the image, the mode you're in becomes less relevant because you can adjust most things from most modes. That's not to say I think using manual is wrong; it really depends on what's most comfortable for you, but manual is certainly the mode that requires the greatest amount of knowledge to use and if most of your shots are coming out very dark it's perhaps a good idea to take a step in a different direction and try another mode for now.

Unfortunately I don't really have any links I'd recommend, I learned this stuff by fiddling with the camera (I'm a touchy feely learner rather than a studier) so I don't really have anything on hand to direct you towards. Your camera manual is probably a good place to start to be honest, most of them go into a decent amount of detail as to how these things work. :)
 
Paul, I think there are some quite specific scenarios where manual is an easier starting point - DSLR or not (studio flash, panorama stitching) but for the OP and his situation, I have to agree with your sentiment entirely: "get with the program (modes)" :)
 
pjm1 said:
Paul, I think there are some quite specific scenarios where manual is an easier starting point - DSLR or not (studio flash, panorama stitching)
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Of course, but I thought it better to stick with Gary's specific situation (generally street photography) rather than confuse matters with other scenarios that haven't been mentioned. :)

EDIT: I meant to say I don't see the need to use manual for anything other than very specific things, I've just realised I somehow missed that bit out!
 
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Fully understood

The only issues I have had using the other modes is the fact it either auto reduces the shutter speed so much, camera shake is inevitable or i have to manually reduce it so much camera shake is inevitable.
I also find the 650D creates a lot of noise in photos from 800ISO up unless its as a result of my under exposure to start with.

I'll have a look at some tutorials and try what you advise and see what happens

Thanks again, much appreciated
 
PMN said:
Of course, but I thought it better to stick with Gary's specific situation (generally street photography) rather than confuse matters with other scenarios that haven't been mentioned. :)
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Good approach :) ... I just know how some might be inclined to take a snippet of peoples' posts out of context and start an TP war about things :eek:

If the OP leaves this thread with "I'd better start using non-M modes more" then that would be a good outcome. If he also understands that all modes can have their uses at certain times then even better... (edit - Gary, I'm just going to presume you're a bloke ;))
 
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I have to say this thread reminds me of the joke about the Christian caught in the flood.

You've got a light meter and a histogram, you're using neither and you wonder why your shots aren't exposed correctly.

On a much more serious note, camera modes are largely inconsequential, but learning how your meter reads a scene is fundamental.
 
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r1flyguy said:
Fully understood

The only issues I have had using the other modes is the fact it either auto reduces the shutter speed so much, camera shake is inevitable or i have to manually reduce it so much camera shake is inevitable.
I also find the 650D creates a lot of noise in photos from 800ISO up unless its as a result of my under exposure to start with.

I'll have a look at some tutorials and try what you advise and see what happens

Thanks again, much appreciated
Click to expand...

Scenario 1: you let the camera determine the correct exposure and end up with lots of noise
Scenario 2: you choose a different exposure, ramp up the EV in post and end up with lots of noise

You're shooting with a lack of light... which on your camera results in a lot of noise? No matter which way you cut it! Open up your aperture wider, use a tripod (maybe unfeasible because of the subject / style of photography) or live with motion blur (generally less acceptable than noise) seem to be the only alternatives to high ISO?
 
r1flyguy said:
Fully understood

The only issues I have had using the other modes is the fact it either auto reduces the shutter speed so much, camera shake is inevitable or i have to manually reduce it so much camera shake is inevitable.
I also find the 650D creates a lot of noise in photos from 800ISO up unless its as a result of my under exposure to start with.

I'll have a look at some tutorials and try what you advise and see what happens

Thanks again, much appreciated
Click to expand...
There's no 'magic bullet mode' if there isn't enough light to shoot without high ISO's or long shutter speeds, the simple answer is use a tripod, or live with the noise. Again, it's fundamental, you can't ignore the low light levels and hope to just convince your camera there's enough light by setting it to underexpose. There are consequences to that, it's a straight up fact that night photography = tripod.
 
r1flyguy said:
Fully understood

The only issues I have had using the other modes is the fact it either auto reduces the shutter speed so much, camera shake is inevitable or i have to manually reduce it so much camera shake is inevitable.
I also find the 650D creates a lot of noise in photos from 800ISO up unless its as a result of my under exposure to start with.

I'll have a look at some tutorials and try what you advise and see what happens

Thanks again, much appreciated
Click to expand...

Changing the mode only affects how you take the shot, it doesn't change the capabilities of the camera. Noise is a fact of high ISO shooting, changing modes won't mean less noise.

Do you have an example of a shot you've taken that was dark/blurry/somehow wrong along with it's EXIF data? It might be easier to explain things looking at an actual example of what you mean.
 
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pjm1 said:
You're shooting with a lack of light... which on your camera results in a lot of noise? No matter which way you cut it! Open up your aperture wider, use a tripod (maybe unfeasible because of the subject / style of photography) or live with motion blur (generally less acceptable than noise) seem to be the only alternatives to high ISO?
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Max Aperture on the 24-104 is f4 so I'm maxed out as it is so only have the two options shutter & ISO, 3 if you include flash, which I haven't got with me on this occasion and don't like using the built in one too much!

Think I will bring my nifty 50 next time and maybe invest in a faster lens at some point too (when I have learnt metering better of course)
 
f4 55mm 400ISO 1/50

He was obviously moving so hard to get a good shot without motion at a low shutter speed

It was taken in an overpass which had fluorescent lighting so camera was set to compensate under white balance too

I'lll post the pre-edit shortly
 
Depending on what you're doing with the print (i.e. not blowing it up to A2) the noise isn't a killer in that image for me.

You can also use selective noise reduction in Lightroom/PS if you have them - you don't have to kill the detail on the face etc. just to remove the noise on the background...
 
If that first version you posted is straight out of the camera it isn't really all that far away from being what I'd call useable. Exposure is basically a balancing act and sometimes in extreme circumstances you have to sacrifice one aspect of the image to gain something somewhere else. I rarely use anything other than aperture priority, occasionally if I'm really fighting for shutter speed and avoiding motion blur I'll drop the exposure compensation down which increases shutter speed so I can at least get a sharp shot, I'll then brighten the image afterwards. The basic idea being a sharp subject with more noise is better than a blurry subject with less noise.

I think you'll certainly get more consistent results using a mode like P or Av. You probably do need to accept that noise is just a part of it though, there's simply no way to avoid it if you want to take photos in dark or tricky conditions. You can use noise reduction but that's a destructive process in itself if used to extremes - an overly NR'd shot looks infinitely worse than a bit of noise to my eyes!

Also as Phil V mentioned, acquaint yourself with the histogram. It's a wonderful little tool that will immediately tell you whether your exposure is somewhere near right. :)
 
Personally I not doing anything with the photos at present other than learning :)

They are for a folder in flickr only which I created for a New Years resolution project to A) learn more about photography B) try to take and upload a photo day for 2015.

I have elements 12 which I am trying to untilise & learn but on a 13" MBP screen i am not keen on the presentation on screen and find iPhoto a little better and easier to use.
 
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Just to add one other point that I can't see mentioned is that your monitor isn't necessarily 'right' either. Just like the rear screen on your camera, your monitor may be displaying the image darker or brighter than it actually is. You can calibrate any screen but as a general rule I elect to trust the histogram. It's a very handy tool.
 
I'd go with everyone else on here. In my experience, on-sceen LCDs tend to show more brightly than the true image. Histogram every time for safety.
 
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