Recommend me a 100-400 combo

Mr Perceptive

Mr Perceptive

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David
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I'm re-evaluating the gear that I currently have and feel that I want to add a body and 100-400 lens to my equipment arsenal.

Now this body would be dedicated to this lens, I have no other lens requirements. I think I'm looking for FF, though I might get persuaded for an APSC solution. The main functions of this gear would be for longer focal length landscapes and motorsport, so I'm interested in reasonable resolution 20MP minimum, fast burst speed shooting (though not at horrendous speeds), fast AF with potentially some form of tracking. It also needs to be weather sealed. Weight isn't a desperate consideration, I'm not going far with this kit and have a fancy Benro monopod to ease my weak arms during a day trackside.

I have a max budget (around £2.5K - this would have to include any spare batteries and alternative memory cards other than UHS-II) but would happily settle for spending a lot less. Am happy to buy pre-loved kit.

At this budget is there a mirrorless solution, or would I be better going old skool and getting a DSLR?

Obviously I can google and use search functions, which generally throws up Canons with the EF100-400ii (from a 7Dii up to a second user R6) - am I missing something? I'm open to any manufacturer's gear.
 
At the moment, the Panasonic G9 is an absolute bargain for what it does, £400-450

Pair that with the 100-400 Panasonic Leica lens, and you have a fantastic set up, 200-800 35mm eq with dual stabilisation.

Doubt if you would beat it in price or performance
 
Sangoma said:
At the moment, the Panasonic G9 is an absolute bargain for what it does, £400-450

Pair that with the 100-400 Panasonic Leica lens, and you have a fantastic set up, 200-800 35mm eq with dual stabilisation.

Doubt if you would beat it in price or performance
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That might be true, but 200mm at the short end is too far for my application, at Oulton Park, you can get quite close to the action so it has to be 100mm equivalent (FF) at the short end.
 
On that budget, I'd be looking at the Sony A7IV, combined with the Tamron 50-400 or 150-500mm.
 
Santafe2000 said:
On that budget, I'd be looking at the Sony A7IV, combined with the Tamron 50-400 or 150-500mm.
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Thanks a combo I'd not considered, how is the weater sealing on the current Sony's early A7 cameras weren't quite as good as expected. Also I suspect that the combo is very close to max budget, though my son has an A7iv so I could steal bits from him!!!
 
Mr Perceptive said:
That might be true, but 200mm at the short end is too far for my application, at Oulton Park, you can get quite close to the action so it has to be 100mm equivalent (FF) at the short end.
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Pity :)
They have a 50-200 (100-400eq) pro lens, but they are pricy.
 
How about an A9 with the Canon 100-400 II on a converter? More suited to action than an A7 possibly, and the converted Canon lens is more affordable than the Sony native lens?

Or you could get a 1Dxii for similar price to an A9 but you may need to budget for CFast card and spare battery.
 
billgatese30 said:
How about an A9 with the Canon 100-400 II on a converter? More suited to action than an A7 possibly, and the converted Canon lens is more affordable than the Sony native lens?

Or you could get a 1Dxii for similar price to an A9 but you may need to budget for CFast card and spare battery.
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Never even considered an A9, is the AF speed compromised with the converter and Canon glass?
 
You know I’m a sensor snob. But consider an Olympus OM-1 with the 40-150 f2.8. Maybe add the 1.4 TC. Used prices are very competitive. Incredible AF. Blackout free high frame rate.
 
Mr Perceptive said:
Never even considered an A9, is the AF speed compromised with the converter and Canon glass?
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I wouldn't know as I've not tried it. I am in a quandary of whether to upgrade my 5Diii to a 1Dxii or an A9 and keep my Canon glass (Tamron 70-200 & Sigma 150-600C) and convert until I have the budget to slowly replace with Sony glass.
 
trevorbray said:
You know I’m a sensor snob. But consider an Olympus OM-1 with the 40-150 f2.8. Maybe add the 1.4 TC. Used prices are very competitive. Incredible AF. Blackout free high frame rate.
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My 'problem' with M43 is its use as a landscape camera as well - given my other gear (Q3/GFX) I just have a gut feeling it may be lacking on the DR front.
 
there are several options available, but the one that needs answering first, is exactly how weather sealed the camera ends to be.

If you intend to be stood out in the pouring rain and be as confident as you can be then I think you need to look at something like a used canon 1dxii with the fantastic 100-400 mark2 lens. That lens is incredible

If you're more thinking of it dealing with a little light rain, and can maybe get a cover for it for heavier downpours, then you have more up to date options, either a canon R6 with the 100-400ii or the Sony A9 with their 100-400.

If it were me - and being mindful that I use and love my Sony gear - then I'd be going with the R6 and the mk2 100-400 for motorsport.

Mike
 
pooley said:
there are several options available, but the one that needs answering first, is exactly how weather sealed the camera ends to be.

If you intend to be stood out in the pouring rain and be as confident as you can be then I think you need to look at something like a used canon 1dxii with the fantastic 100-400 mark2 lens. That lens is incredible

If you're more thinking of it dealing with a little light rain, and can maybe get a cover for it for heavier downpours, then you have more up to date options, either a canon R6 with the 100-400ii or the Sony A9 with their 100-400.

If it were me - and being mindful that I use and love my Sony gear - then I'd be going with the R6 and the mk2 100-400 for motorsport.

Mike
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Mike, thanks - I don't mind standing in rain, its driving rain I have an issue with!! So lets assume the light rain with a cover option. I'm a little unsure on how the AF matches up on the mirrorless A9/R6 v a Pro DSLR, any thoughts? (and perhaps @billgatese30 has a view on this)

I have a son who shoot Sony and a Step Daughter who shoots semi-professionally with two R6's - she does Gig photography, so I quite like the idea of Canon EF compatible glass, as she could make use of an EF 100-400ii at festivals and equally my son has an EF adapter for his Sony.
 
From what I've read, people think the 1Dxii is apparently much better than the A9 especially tracking subjects coming towards you, however that was never a scientific comparison with native vs converted lenses etc and was simply Internet opinion. I've not read much about comparing the 1Dxii or A9 vs the R6 as its out of my budget. My main concern about the 1Dxii is it takes CFast cards which are hard to come by compared to CF or CF Express which are far more common, and in a few years time will likely be worthless as anyone hankering after a DSLR will likely be able to afford the 1Dxiii
 
Mr Perceptive said:
Mike, thanks - I don't mind standing in rain, its driving rain I have an issue with!! So lets assume the light rain with a cover option. I'm a little unsure on how the AF matches up on the mirrorless A9/R6 v a Pro DSLR, any thoughts? (and perhaps @billgatese30 has a view on this)

I have a son who shoot Sony and a Step Daughter who shoots semi-professionally with two R6's - she does Gig photography, so I quite like the idea of Canon EF compatible glass, as she could make use of an EF 100-400ii at festivals and equally my son has an EF adapter for his Sony.
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I don't shoot motorsport, but I do shoot animals, especially fish and birds as well as field sports occasionally.

History wise, I used to have the original 1dx which I used with the mk2 zoom as well as a 600mm f4. I later upgraded that to an R5 before switching to Sony. I now have an A1, but have briefly tried a friends A9 before the A1 came out.

The 1dx was always superb for field sport, but the R5 was far better for birds in flight, especially when tracking towards the camera. The A1 is better still, and the A9 is only slightly behind that camera.

With the predictable direction - apart from crashes! - of motorsport I'd be more than happy to use the AF of either the R6 or the A9.

I do love the zebra function on the Sony for exposure, but I did prefer the handling of the R5 when I had it.

I think the easiest way of putting it would be to say I'd expect them both to be superb

Mike
 
Mr Perceptive said:
That might be true, but 200mm at the short end is too far for my application, at Oulton Park, you can get quite close to the action so it has to be 100mm equivalent (FF) at the short end.
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Thinking further, I use one G9 with the 100-400 on it, and the other G9 with a 14-140 on it, 28-800mm (35mm eq) of very sharp dual stabilised lenses instantly at hand.

I don't know what the desirable DR is for landscape, the G9 is better than the 5Diii but not as good as some of the recent FF cameras.

The G9 also has a 80MP mode that I read is good for landscapes, but apart from trying it, haven't done much with it. I don't know if that affects the DR
 
billgatese30 said:
From what I've read, people think the 1Dxii is apparently much better than the A9 especially tracking subjects coming towards you, however that was never a scientific comparison with native vs converted lenses etc and was simply Internet opinion. I've not read much about comparing the 1Dxii or A9 vs the R6 as its out of my budget. My main concern about the 1Dxii is it takes CFast cards which are hard to come by compared to CF or CF Express which are far more common, and in a few years time will likely be worthless as anyone hankering after a DSLR will likely be able to afford the 1Dxiii
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Useful information, thanks

pooley said:
I don't shoot motorsport, but I do shoot animals, especially fish and birds as well as field sports occasionally.

History wise, I used to have the original 1dx which I used with the mk2 zoom as well as a 600mm f4. I later upgraded that to an R5 before switching to Sony. I now have an A1, but have briefly tried a friends A9 before the A1 came out.

The 1dx was always superb for field sport, but the R5 was far better for birds in flight, especially when tracking towards the camera. The A1 is better still, and the A9 is only slightly behind that camera.

With the predictable direction - apart from crashes! - of motorsport I'd be more than happy to use the AF of either the R6 or the A9.

I do love the zebra function on the Sony for exposure, but I did prefer the handling of the R5 when I had it.

I think the easiest way of putting it would be to say I'd expect them both to be superb

Mike
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Again very useful, thanks

Sangoma said:
Thinking further, I use one G9 with the 100-400 on it, and the other G9 with a 14-140 on it, 28-800mm (35mm eq) of very sharp dual stabilised lenses instantly at hand.

I don't know what the desirable DR is for landscape, the G9 is better than the 5Diii but not as good as some of the recent FF cameras.

The G9 also has a 80MP mode that I read is good for landscapes, but apart from trying it, haven't done much with it. I don't know if that affects the DR
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G9 is about a stop down on Canon R6, and over a stop down on Leica Q3 and GFX - both teh latter have amazingly flexible files. The problem is once you have a certain level its difficult to go backwards!

A9 wasn't amazing DR but is blackout free being a stacked sensor, A7IV has much better DR.

I'm not hung up on it, but my experience with an EM1-Mk2 wasn't great - but that was a few years ago.

Hi-res modes rely on dead still tripods, and dead still views to look at. 1 micron movement and the image goes soft! It only gets you a bigger image, not an increase in DR. I'd be happy with 20MP but want decent performance.
 
GreenNinja67 said:
The later Olympus cameras do handheld Hi-res
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Well I'm happy for them :D - must have cleverer software than early iterations. I took 5 images from teh same location with the EM1-MkII in high res mode on a Manfrotto 055 tripod (overkill for such a small lightweight camera) in calm conditions, tripod on waterside path (pavement) at Birkenheadlkooking across Mersey to Liverpool, only one of the 5 was sharp.
 
For your use case just grab the used A9 in the classifieds and get a used 100-400, there's no downside really if it's a specific tool for the job.

I almost bought it myself specifically for surf work but got seduced by knobs and looks of the ZF, which by the way has fantastic tracking abilities but the Nikon 100-400 is still £2k used.

Oh and congrats on almost drawing level with @trevorbray on the amount of gear owned front :ROFLMAO:
 
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Mr Perceptive said:
Mike, thanks - I don't mind standing in rain, its driving rain I have an issue with!! So lets assume the light rain with a cover option. I'm a little unsure on how the AF matches up on the mirrorless A9/R6 v a Pro DSLR, any thoughts? (and perhaps @billgatese30 has a view on this)

I have a son who shoot Sony and a Step Daughter who shoots semi-professionally with two R6's - she does Gig photography, so I quite like the idea of Canon EF compatible glass, as she could make use of an EF 100-400ii at festivals and equally my son has an EF adapter for his Sony.
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I've used the A9 with the Sigma 100-400mm and some DSLRs, for me it's hands down the A9. The AF is fantastic but on top of that the blackout free silent shooting makes tracking easier visually and no clack-clack-clack-clack all day long while taking pictures. I had planned to stick with the DSLR for motorsport work when I bought the A9 which I'd bought for other purposes, people on the forum here were critical of such a decision and to be fair to them they were 100% right - the DSLR just feels like a dinosaur compared to the A9.

The A9 does lose a bit of DR compared to others although I don't find that an issue for motorsport, I don't think the Sigma 100-400mm is weather sealed though and the Sony one might be out of budget.
 
"Hi-res modes rely on dead still tripods, and dead still views to look at. 1 micron movement and the image goes soft! It only gets you a bigger image"

Yes, but that is forgetting the stabilisation :)

Apparently it works well, and the later versions can be handheld
 
JohnMcL7 said:
I've used the A9 with the Sigma 100-400mm and some DSLRs, for me it's hands down the A9. The AF is fantastic but on top of that the blackout free silent shooting makes tracking easier visually and no clack-clack-clack-clack all day long while taking pictures. I had planned to stick with the DSLR for motorsport work when I bought the A9 which I'd bought for other purposes, people on the forum here were critical of such a decision and to be fair to them they were 100% right - the DSLR just feels like a dinosaur compared to the A9.

The A9 does lose a bit of DR compared to others although I don't find that an issue for motorsport, I don't think the Sigma 100-400mm is weather sealed though and the Sony one might be out of budget.
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Thanks, a Used A9 and the Sony GM100-400 would be pushing the budget, but it still sounds a good option, and budgets are only guidelines or so I keep telling myself!

Sangoma said:
"Hi-res modes rely on dead still tripods, and dead still views to look at. 1 micron movement and the image goes soft! It only gets you a bigger image"

Yes, but that is forgetting the stabilisation :)

Apparently it works well, and the later versions can be handheld
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the scene also needs to be dead still, blowing leaves/branches/blades of grass etc - Hi-res modes ahve their place, just not in the hills of Wales (IMO)
 
Mr Perceptive said:
Never even considered an A9, is the AF speed compromised with the converter and Canon glass?
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The A9 can be had around £1,100 (think there might be one in classified as present actually). Then the Sony 100-400 can be had for £1,400 (a decent one here for 1,499; a dusty one without hood here for £1,189, before even looking at classified or ebay).

I know you said you wanted 100mm, but having owned the 100-400 and 200-600, I'd go the latter every time unless space is super tight. That 200-600 lens is incredible, and could be picked up in budget new (current new price is around £1,579 and bound to be a Sony rebate on it soon). For 100mm end though, the 100-400GM is also very good.
 
Tricky01 said:
The A9 can be had around £1,100 (think there might be one in classified as present actually). Then the Sony 100-400 can be had for £1,400 (a decent one here for 1,499; a dusty one without hood here for £1,189, before even looking at classified or ebay).

I know you said you wanted 100mm, but having owned the 100-400 and 200-600, I'd go the latter every time unless space is super tight. That 200-600 lens is incredible, and could be picked up in budget new (current new price is around £1,579 and bound to be a Sony rebate on it soon). For 100mm end though, the 100-400GM is also very good.
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Thanks, I've been happily using a GF100-200mm at Oulton Park on a GFX, totally unsuitable for motorsport :ROFLMAO: bit like shooting film, one image per pan pass! It also is only useful in a couple of places, and I need a longer reach to get some different angles. Thats a FF focal length of 80-160mm, and I used around 100mm FF quite a bit. If I went for a 200-600 I would have a huge gap down to my next camera lens combo which would be 50mm FF equivalent. I need to sell the GF100-200 to fund this exercise. I really don't want to be swapping lenses.

And to complete the madness, I also used a Cinema Projection Lens Cinelux 125mm F2 lens (manual focus) on the GFX as well, needed some ND filters to slow the shutter speed down enough!


Oulton Park - CSCC - Datsun 240Z by David Yeoman, on Flickr
 
If weight is something to consider then mirror less is the way.

If not then if you want to stay on the budget end (I do :ROFLMAO: ) the you have a load of DSLR options.

Nikon D500 + 200- 500 (I use one of those lens round Oulton and the 200 end is only really an issue if your shooting at Lodge corner)
Nikon D4s + same lens ( however you may have to think about shutter count, me not bothered was thinking of picking a D4 up with 500K + on it)
Or Nikon D800 that works fine as well.

Canon either 1Dx with 100-400L lens (I use one of these and its great)
Canon 1Dx MkII
Or Canon 5D MkIV (thinking of swapping my 1Dx for one of these)

Both bodies are relatively inexpensive these days and the 100-100L is a fab lens, most say "go for the MkII version" but I have the MKI and, for me, works fine.

Olympus OMD-1X with either 40-150 f2.8 pro plus may be 1.4x or 2.0x tele convertor and I do not have any issue with DR using this combo.

Also you could go for Fuji XT- with 100-400 (I have that lens on an XT-1, works great but its challenging to use :ROFLMAO: )

All this is used and can be had for under the £2K, just :)
 
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I recently got the Canon 100-400Lmkii. It has blown me out of the water, it's a stunning lens and I'm yet to even push it. I have only used it on an R7 so far, so effectively 160-640mm but I also have a 5Div, that I've not used it with yet. I'm expecting it to be equally as lovely, if not even more so on the 5D. The detail it resolves on the R7 is incredible.

Used 5Div s can be picked up around £1.1k and the lens about the same, well within your budget. Just saying. ;)
 
@snerkler might work - I have a feeling that the 's might confuzzle the @ function.
 
Until I got my RF100-500 I was using an EF 100-400 MkII with EF-RF adaptor and it felt faster focussing that on the 90D or 6DMkII that it used to live on... But I was swayed by the lure of the 100-500. I don't regret it at all...
 
100-400 35mm equivalent just rules out the Fuji body + 100-400 on the short end but would allow an APS-C with a 70-300 (OK, even Nikons and other 1.5 crop factors do stretch it to 105 but that's close enough for government work!) My choice would be a D7*** with a 70-300 VR (or IS/OS etc.).
 
Mr Perceptive said:
Be interested in @snerkler’s views on this topic :)
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Nod said:
@snerkler might work - I have a feeling that the 's might confuzzle the @ function.
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I can't help with Canon but with DSLR's the D750 and Sigma 100-400mm worked very well for me at Silverstone, although I can't recall if the Sigma is weather sealed, and by today's standards the frame rate of the D750 is slow.

I know you've discounted m4/3 but the 40-150mm f2.8 pro is a really great lens, and m4/3 is more than capable of landscapes, but obviously DR is lacking over FF.

In terms of tele lenses the Sony 100-400mm GM is the best I've used, sharp, nice rendering, fast AF, well built and weather sealed. The only negative is that it's not internal zoom.

I've never been a huge fan of the ergnomics of the A9, the A9ii is much better in this regard. Whilst a few years old now it still holds it's own in terms of AF, and frame rate is also very good. Blackout free shooting can make quite a difference with pannig shots. The A9ii is also better for landscapes over the A9 as it has better DR. I appreciate this is out of budget, just sharing my thoughts ;)
 
snerkler said:
I can't help with Canon but with DSLR's the D750 and Sigma 100-400mm worked very well for me at Silverstone, although I can't recall if the Sigma is weather sealed, and by today's standards the frame rate of the D750 is slow.

I know you've discounted m4/3 but the 40-150mm f2.8 pro is a really great lens, and m4/3 is more than capable of landscapes, but obviously DR is lacking over FF.

In terms of tele lenses the Sony 100-400mm GM is the best I've used, sharp, nice rendering, fast AF, well built and weather sealed. The only negative is that it's not internal zoom.

I've never been a huge fan of the ergnomics of the A9, the A9ii is much better in this regard. Whilst a few years old now it still holds it's own in terms of AF, and frame rate is also very good. Blackout free shooting can make quite a difference with pannig shots. The A9ii is also better for landscapes over the A9 as it has better DR. I appreciate this is out of budget, just sharing my thoughts ;)
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Toby, Thanks

This thread has thrown up a few things I had not considerd so some reaearch to do notably on

A9 - didn't think for one moment that this and the Sony 100-400 would be vaguely in budget
Sony 100-400 GM
Tamron 50-400 - never even knew this existed, and with a decent crop sensor could be a very flexible solution
Sony A7iv - again didn't consider this one

I also like @Knikki thoughts - quite a few cheaper options to consider - never been a Nikon shooter to date, but need to consider all options
 
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Mr Perceptive said:
Toby, Thanks

This thread has thrown up a few things I had not considerd so some reaearch to do notably on

A9 - didn't think for one moment that this and the Sony 100-400 would be vaguaely in budget
Sony 100-400 GM
Tamron 50-400 - never even knew this existed, and witha decent crop sensor could be a very flexible solution
Sony A7iv - again didn't consider this one

I also like @Knikki thoughts - quite a few cheaper options to consider - never been a Nikon shooter to date, but need to consider all options
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The Tamron 50-400 is FF, had it, returned it, personally found the AF lacking and its ergonomics are not great.
 
Mr Perceptive said:
I also like @Knikki thoughts - quite a few cheaper options to consider - never been a Nikon shooter to date, but need to consider all options
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The D500 is a great option if you want the reach, however in comnination with the 200-500mm I'd find it limiting as you'd have 300mm eq at the wider end. Obviuosly it depends where you're going to shoot but a number of my motorsport photos have been less than 300mm, quite a few under 200mm. This is shooting at Donington, Oulton Park, Silverstone, Cadwell and Thruxton. Also, the 200-500mm is a relatively heavy beast compared to your 100-400mm lenses.
 
I agree with @snerkler and I had forgotten about the crop factor of the D500, the 200-500 is a fab lens but its HEAVY, I have to use mine on a monopod.
 
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